Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Gorsameth]

No, it's a 2 way street. They both bear responsibility. Harris and the DNC failed to mobilize voters, that's on THEM. It's also on the people who chose to sit home, but there will always be people like that and elections are always won or lost on how well you motivate those people to go out and vote. This is reality. We all know it bro.

When its a choice between 2 sane, reasonable candidates you can blame the party for failing to mobilize voters.

When the choice is between America's Hitler and literally anyone else I blame the voters. A decent human being shouldn't need convincing not to vote for the side openly proposing a fascist takeover of the government.

[Endus]

Good luck winning elections with those kind of candidates.

Seems to work just fine for Republicans, or is it just the open dishonesty and failure to demonstrate a 3rd-grade level of comprehension over the issues that makes Republican candidates particularly electable?

[Calfredd]

Good luck winning elections with those kind of candidates.

Worked pretty well for your boy Trump.

[NineSpine]

"Failed to motivate voters" denies those voters their responsibility for their choices (or lack thereof). That's my problem.

Nobody made their minds up for them. Their choices are their own. They weren't brainwashed by the Dems into inaction, and it's a really weird accusation.

Most of these people are getting their information from facebook memes. I don't think you realize how detached and ignorant people are.

[Tech614]

"Failed to motivate voters" denies those voters their responsibility for their choices (or lack thereof). That's my problem.

Nobody made their minds up for them. Their choices are their own. They weren't brainwashed by the Dems into inaction, and it's a really weird accusation.

Ah classic endus at this point.

Trump barely gained anything from 2020. Kamala lost a massive amount of votes that Biden got in 2020.

The facts don't lie, people that voted for Biden in 2020 sat at home. You can blame them all you want, and they will continue to sit at home until a dem candidate talks and they believe in them and decide to go out and vote for them.

The DNC spent more money than Trump and failed to reach these people. That is once again, on THEM. They wasted money trying to court suburban white voters who where going to vote for Trump anyways instead of trying to activate their base much like Biden did in 2020 with amazing ground game work in Philly, Atlanta, Detroit.

[Endus]

Most of these people are getting their information from facebook memes. I don't think you realize how detached and ignorant people are.

No, that's my point. I'm not expecting them to behave differently, I'm judging them for their failings of basic human empathy and decency.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah classic endus at this point.

Trump barely gained anything from 2020. Kamala lost a massive amount of votes that Biden got in 2020.

The facts don't lie, people that voted for Biden in 2020 sat at home. You can blame them all you want, and they will continue to sit at home until a dem candidate talks and they believe in them and decide to go out and vote for them.

The DNC spent more money than Trump and failed to reach these people. That is once again, on THEM.

You seem confused.

I'm not trying to fix them. I'm pointing out they're the problem, and that it's their fault.

It's entirely possible the USA is a failed democracy and we're at the start of it spiraling down the drain. Especially after the next 4 years go by. It may not be "fixable". But the responsibility for that lies on the electorate. The electorate is the key element to any democracy, and the moment the electorate can't make responsible collective choices, the democracy will fail.

[NineSpine]

No, that's my point. I'm not expecting them to behave differently, I'm judging them for their failings of basic human empathy and decency.

They don't even know who they are supposed to empathize with or be decent to that you are talking about. You are still overestimating their knowledge.

[Tech614]

It's entirely possible the USA is a failed democracy and we're at the start of it spiraling down the drain. Especially after the next 4 years go by. It may not be "fixable". But the responsibility for that lies on the electorate. The electorate is the key element to any democracy, and the moment the electorate can't make responsible collective choices, the democracy will fail.

The earth is a failed human project using this logic.

Your utopia does not exist, just because other countries are better off right now because they don't have an absolute carny in the executive chair does not change the fact this is the reality of fair and free elections world wide. People are largely not going to get off their ass to vote for you unless they believe you are in their best interest.

The last Canadian election had sub 50% voter turnout, this one had 63% in the US. Is Canada also failed because people don't get off their asses to vote? Only extremely popular candidates drive high turnout, denying that a candidate also has responsibility to turn out their voting base is a very, very weird take. Or what's the next goal post shift? It only matters when a fascist is on the ballot?

[Gorsameth]

They don't even know who they are supposed to empathize with or be decent to that you are talking about. You are still overestimating their knowledge.

If they are utterly ignorant about literally everything (you kind of have to be to now know what Trump is) then how on earth do you think the Democrats would even reach these people. They are living under a rock apparently.

[NineSpine]

If they are utterly ignorant about literally everything (you kind of have to be to now know what Trump is) then how on earth do you think the Democrats would even reach these people. They are living under a rock apparently.

You need to do things that are going to get to them, and shit like this is not going to get to them: "So we were thinking maybe a special tax credit for business owners whose companies start with the letters F or N and who have annual incomes between $50,000 and $70,000 and they can fill out a form for consideration if their taxes were filed on time for the last five years."

People hear this mealy-mouthed wishy-washy shit from Democrats and they tune out. It doesn't generate headlines. It doesn't get anyone excited. Every economic plan is wrapped in three layers of caveats and considerations. The second people hear "tax credit" they don't even know if it applies to them.

[Endus]

The earth is a failed human project using this logic.

Hardly. Plenty of progress out there to be had. The USA is just uniquely backsliding right now, and didn't have all that far to go, because it's never been particularly forward-thinking and authoritarian bigotry has been the key defining aspect of American politics since inception.

The last Canadian election had sub 50% voter turnout, this one had 63% in the US. Is Canada also failed because people don't get off their asses to vote?

You get that an important factor is the quality of the candidates and the parties themselves, right?

Because ignoring Polievre, who wasn't a factor last federal election, Canada's parties don't delve into the same kind of lunacy as Republicans in the USA. Our elections simply aren't as high-stakes.

Also, the last federal election here in Canada had 62.3% turnout. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_C...deral_election

I have no idea where you pulled "sub 50%" from. Unless it's provincial elections, which always have lower turnouts. And would really be an unfair comparison to American federal elections.

Only extremely popular candidates drive high turnout, denying that a candidate also has responsibility to turn out their voting base is a very, very weird take. Or what's the next goal post shift? It only matters when a fascist is on the ballot?

You're the one trying to set new goal posts, here, not I. I was speaking in specifics regarding the last American election, and the American context. You're the one falsely trying to attribute that to some broad statement regarding all elections, and that's not based on what I've said.

[Canpinter]

A candidate has to work with the voting population that exists not the one that we wish existed. It would be great if everyone was smart and well informed and not selfish ect ect ect, but that's just not the case. And if your goal is to actually accomplish something you have to work around that, at least in the short term.

Now that's not to say you cant change the public over time but that's a long term project that takes massive effort from more then just a candidate or party.

[Milchshake]

If they are utterly ignorant about literally everything (you kind of have to be to now know what Trump is) then how on earth do you think the Democrats would even reach these people.

What really helps the Democrats is when Tech,Pacox,Draconis,Endus, *constantly* remind us that they "hate democrats!" but they akshuly support them.
Even if its just 10 out of 280 democratic members screwing up. <They paint the whole party as bad.>
Even if its just one fuckup like Manchin, again <They paint the whole party as bad.>

<They paint the whole party as bad.> Is a choice! It's not a policy choice. It's a choice of theater and aesthetics. It more for the personal brand of Online LEfty.

Does it out weigh grumbling Trump 10% of time? Does it out weigh grumbling Trump 50% of time?
Regardless, negative messaging does damage, its done. These political hobbyists should know this.

SO how do Democrats get their message out?
I dunno man, but Democrats have to compete not only against the GOP, they have have to fight a 2 front war because of these other guys.

I realized this in 2016. I decided to test it out in 2017 onward. Changing my persona here to be more cheerleading for Dems. Oh man it is a whithering experice.

<Complementing/cheering Dems> is like on of the most uncool things you can do online.

[Gorsameth]

You need to do things that are going to get to them, and shit like this is not going to get to them: "So we were thinking maybe a special tax credit for business owners whose companies start with the letters F or N and who have annual incomes between $50,000 and $70,000 and they can fill out a form for consideration if their taxes were filed on time for the last five years."

People hear this mealy-mouthed wishy-washy shit from Democrats and they tune out. It doesn't generate headlines. It doesn't get anyone excited. Every economic plan is wrapped in three layers of caveats and considerations. The second people hear "tax credit" they don't even know if it applies to them.

It
Doesn't
Matter
For
2024

The 2024 election was a convicted Felon, liable for sexual assault who instigated an insurrection vs someone who was none of those things.
It was Fascism vs not-Fascism

I don't give a shit about how unexcited someone was for the Democrats message, the other message was Fascism.
If they can't be bothered to get off their ass to vote against Fascism then I will blame them for that


America fucked around, and I no longer care if they get hurt when they find out.

[gondrin]

Ah classic endus at this point.

Trump barely gained anything from 2020. Kamala lost a massive amount of votes that Biden got in 2020.

The facts don't lie, people that voted for Biden in 2020 sat at home. You can blame them all you want, and they will continue to sit at home until a dem candidate talks and they believe in them and decide to go out and vote for them.

The DNC spent more money than Trump and failed to reach these people. That is once again, on THEM. They wasted money trying to court suburban white voters who where going to vote for Trump anyways instead of trying to activate their base much like Biden did in 2020 with amazing ground game work in Philly, Atlanta, Detroit.

God, I hate the relitigating of the election and the voters themselves. Those voters that CHOSE to abstain from voting for Harris for one reason or another still make a conscious choice on doing it.

Yes, no candidate deserves a vote. I sure as hell as didn't cast my vote for Harris because any policy of hers I agreed with. I cast my vote for Harris because the Republicans outright lost it when they nominated people like Trump. I would have voted for anyone the Democrats put forth unless it was Trump himself.

No, it shouldn't be this way. But like anything that is a contest, you play with the rulebook that is out there. And right now, until how the elections get decided on, we have pretty much a de facto two party system at least for the Presidency. So, if you choose to not vote, all you are doing is handing a vote to the party that is far worse.

We get the government we vote for. Pure and simple. Someone who doesn't vote and is able to vote made the choice to accept whomever wins the election. That is why I get a right to complain because I voted against Trump and all the rest of the sycophants.

Let me repost this video to actively put my point across:



This also applies to anyone that had a 3rd party protest vote against Harris.

You chose it, you don't have a right to act shocked nor complain about what is happening.

[Milchshake]

Trump take nest egg.

Has someone told Feces Voltron that another Red Wave is here?! Surfs up brahs!



Do kids from gated communities in Orange County even surf?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Good luck winning elections with those kind of candidates.

There already elected showing that they can....

[Endus]

What really helps the Democrats is when Tech,Pacox,Draconis,Endus, *constantly* remind us that they "hate democrats!" but they akshuly support them.

1> I can't feasibly "support Democrats". I'm Canadian. They kind of frown on foreigners voting in US elections, y'know. And I sure don't send them money or something.

2> Pointing out you don't have a better option on the table at the moment is not "support". It's the reality of a given election cycle. You can't vote for the unicorn candidate that doesn't exist.

3> Pointing out that if you want a better option, it's on you to get moving on that is also not "support". Sitting around waiting for a unicorn to show up on its own impetus is not a reasonable position.

[DarkTZeratul]

As long as the same tug of war goes on for the seats, adding more is a bandaid at best.

The solution I've seen that I think is most fair is that we get one new Supreme Court appointee every 2 years. No one gets to game the system by holding a seat open until their guy gets in, the total number will fluctuate so it's harder to maintain a majority, and there's no benefit to either retiring early to let your guy appoint a replacement, or hanging on late because the other guy will replace you.

[Gabriel]

2 for one of people completely missing the point because they didn't even read what that post was a reply to. Please stop wasting my time.

The dude said Harris lost because of Trump being anti trans when literally jack shit of her platform had to do with trans rights at all. She didn't lose because she was pro trans, and Trump probably gained an insignificant amount of votes for being anti trans. How many fuckers who voted for Trump decided to do so because of a fucking bigoted ad? The bigots where already a lock to vote for him and wouldn't vote for Kamala no matter what. That ad did NOTHING.

Claiming Kamala lost because of trans issues being too progressive is fucking laughable. NED is so out of touch but not surprising since he is a republican who just hates Trump.

Kamala lost because the average US citizen is either too stupid see that voting for Trump was voting against their self interest, or because they actually are self aware in their hatred towards minorities.

In either case, that average US voter deserves all the bad things coming their way because of the way they voted.

If the average person is so fucking dumb that they can't see that without someone literally holding their hand, then they shouldn't have the ability to vote in the first place.