Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[gondrin]

I'm not interested in Fetterman's opinion, no thanks.

Do you have an opinion of your own?

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Well, we know how donald thinks, he told us during covid.

If you just fire everyone who works in cancer research, prevention, care, and testing then you can't have anyone getting diagnosed with cancer.

And if nobody is getting diagnosed with cancer, there is no cancer, and America is cancer free.

That's who reality works according to Donald, and I have yet to see Republicans challenge him on that.

Fetterman is about as much of a Democrat as Mike Pence is. I figure he will either turn Independent or outright state that he will be in the Republican Party here soon.

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So, anyone got a definition for fraud? Because, as far as I can tell, there is a very specific definition when talking about fraud, especially so in government. It means that you used resources for something else that it wasn't appropriated for and had no authority to do so. Fraud is a very real and very illegal event.

Because Musk sure as hell is using the term "fraud" for much more than its actual narrow definition.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...34ccaec7&ei=10

[Edge-]

Because Musk sure as hell is using the term "fraud" for much more than its actual narrow definition.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...34ccaec7&ei=10

republicans don't know the definitions of words, more at 11

elon is a south african pedo guy, i'm not sure if english is his first language so maybe he needs to have an american help interpret for him?

[Breccia]

Because Musk sure as hell is using the term "fraud" for much more than its actual narrow definition.

My favorite part:

“We found hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud,” Trump said in his remarks to Congress

He has not, to nobody's surprise.

A spartanly furnished web page with columns of numbers and bar charts on a dark background is the only official window into billionaire Elon Musk's effort to slash U.S. government spending and the size of the federal workforce. However, the view it offers of the cost-cutting enterprise is often muddied by major errors.

Trump and Musk's Department of Government Efficiency say that in just six weeks they have already saved American taxpayers tens of billions of dollars through rapid-fire moves to cancel contracts, fire workers and root out fraud and waste in the government.

The only support for the assertions comes from data posted by DOGE to a newly created website that went live last month. But in the last two weeks alone, DOGE has deleted hundreds of claimed savings, including some of the largest items it had previously boasted about.

DOGE claims to have slashed $105 billion so far, but it is impossible to verify that calculation because the unit has so far posted a detailed breakdown for only a fraction of those savings, and that accounting keeps changing, according to a Reuters analysis of the data.

Yep. Not only was the highest claim so far $100 billion, and not "hundreds of billions", most of that claim was incorrect and most of it is hidden.

"Wait, hundreds of billions? He didn't say-"

Trump lauded the group's work in his address to Congress on Tuesday, claiming Musk's group had identified "hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud," far more than what the administration had previously claimed.

"We've taken back the money and reduced our debt to fight inflation," Trump said.

We've already explored how most of the "savings" were already paid contracts that, no, weren't taken back. Because that's how contracts work. And I am also calling bullshit on the claim it's reduced debt, because that would require actually paying something, which in turn would leave a paper trail or receipt. We haven't seen those, and Trump's word is worthless.

Musk has said he is operating transparently in his cost-cutting effort, but budget experts like Martha Gimbel, director of the Budget Lab at Yale, a non-partisan budget analysis organization at Yale University, disagree.

"Anyone can put numbers and words on a website," Gimbel said in an interview. "In order to be transparent, the numbers and words have to be accurate. They've already been shown not to be accurate so why should I trust it?"

If President Musk had found hundreds of billions in fraud, it would be splashed over every website in DC and FOX News. It is not. The logical conclusion is that the fraud they're bragging about finding does not exist.

"If they found fraud, which as Gondrin pointed out is a specific and legal definition, why hasn't anyone been arrested? Musk owns the Executive Branch."

Because they didn't find the fraud they claimed. Or, they're incompetent. Neither trait is redeeming.

[tehdang]

I'm not interested in Fetterman's opinion, no thanks.

Do you have an opinion of your own?

Sometimes, you see a thought just perfectly expressed by another, and there's no reason to change a thing! Yes, I share his opinion. But if you don't have a response, that's fine.

I detest antisemitism. However, much like any other fascist rhetoric, at least in the US, it is neither illegal and is, in fact, constitutional to espouse those things and the government cannot suppress it outside of legit calls to harm.

Actions speak louder than words. I've seen plenty of people that pay lip service against antisemitism, but when it comes to college campuses, they suddenly fill up on excuses. Very frail excuses.

I will argue against that rhetoric all day and night.

Like classifying "content-discriminatory policies, intimidation, harassment, property destruction, and assault" as "rhetoric" which you oppose. Columbia had their chance, now comes the consequences.

https://x.com/SenFettermanPA/status/1898080811301454149

I guess if you missed all the hubbub, maybe this is the proper response: we're just setting right all the stuff you ignored or missed, no need to reconsider the historical record.

[gondrin]

Sometimes, you see a thought just perfectly expressed by another, and there's no reason to change a thing! Yes, I share his opinion. But if you don't have a response, that's fine.

Actions speak louder than words. I've seen plenty of people that pay lip service against antisemitism, but when it comes to college campuses, they suddenly fill up on excuses. Very frail excuses.

Like classifying "content-discriminatory policies, intimidation, harassment, property destruction, and assault" as "rhetoric" which you oppose. Columbia had their chance, now comes the consequences.

https://x.com/SenFettermanPA/status/1898080811301454149

I guess if you missed all the hubbub, maybe this is the proper response: we're just setting right all the stuff you ignored or missed, no need to reconsider the historical record.

And once again, if it is a bunch of protesting, that is protected by the First Amendment and any college or university that takes public dollars cannot prohibit those things. They can state that you can't block normal course of business but they cannot block someone from protesting whatever it is they want to protest. If it is actual harassment, property damage or actual physical assaults(verbal assaults are protected by the First Amendment), those are actual crimes and can be charged as such.

And once again, that same fascist rhetoric, that fascist protesting, is PERFECTLY LEGAL within the United States because of the US Constitution. Specifically the First Amendment. Both in the freedom of assembly and the restriction on prohibiting speech by a government or otherwise public body. I absolutely detest their rhetoric but they are still allowed to espouse it as disgusting as it is. It is no different than a bunch of people protesting against Muslims or Christians or Catholics or Nazis or any other group of people.

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So, what happens when you get what you want and you realize that it isn't exactly what you want? Well, this video goes about explaining a bit on what is happening and how past ruling is basically making it harder for OPM, DOGE and Musk to actually win any lawsuits with what they are doing with the Government.



BTW, the SCOTUS overturning the Chevron Deference is why now the Courts pretty much are the only body of government that can actually determine if something is legal or not. Before, they were "defer" to the actual departments and their experts on what is legal or not. The big irony is conservatives have been wanting to get rid of that for a long while and now they got what they wanted, that ruling is one of the very things being used against them as now.

[Breccia]

Actions speak louder than words.

Such as cutting federal support to a college because you disagree with their protests of your genocide. That action is unConstitutional. Which I doubt matters to you, since you support him as a king.

[gondrin]

So, how will our resident Trump posters feel about this? Trump trying to unilaterally deny people who qualify for student loan forgiveness if they work in public service careers and work for non-profits who are deemed to be engaged in "improper activities". SCOTUS already ruled that Biden couldn't change how student loan forgiveness is handled. Neither can Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/care...0cca01a0&ei=40

[SAY HER NAME]

Cutting funding from Universities bc there is speech you dont like is dangerous. Its actually insane the free speech party is having this opinion?

Would you have been okay with Biden cutting funding to universities when Jan 6 deniers were invited?

[Corvus]

Trump is now saying russia is 'easier to work with' than Ukraine. Well, when you are the governor of russia's newest oblast and doing your bosses bidding while working against their victims, of course it is.

[Jastall]

Cutting funding from Universities bc there is speech you dont like is dangerous. Its actually insane the free speech party is having this opinion?

Would you have been okay with Biden cutting funding to universities when Jan 6 deniers were invited?

It's shockingly unsurprising how swiftly cancel culture is back on the menu when it's Trump and his friends hearing opinions they don't like.

[Xyonai]

It's shockingly unsurprising how swiftly cancel culture is back on the menu when it's Trump and his friends hearing opinions they don't like.

Yeah the novelty on their hypocrisy wore off years ago. Now it's just kind of exhausting.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Anyone with a functioning brain could have seen that Trump pretty much was going to either back off of Israel completely or outright help them genocide Palestine(both Gaza and the West Bank).

So those Arabs in Deerborn, how do you like your vote now?

I'm convinced the Deerborn Arabs were a psyop, and before you call me some crazy conspiracy theorist, Jill Stein was throwing a lot of (Russian) money around to anti-Harris grassroots movements with an emphasis on the Israel/Gaza conflict being central to why those people were so vocally anti-Harris over it. Most of these groups are SILENT as Trump promises a blank check to Israel to finish Gaza now, so it's pretty obvious they're enjoying their paycheck and just planning on living in the US from now on.

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It's shockingly unsurprising how swiftly cancel culture is back on the menu when it's Trump and his friends hearing opinions they don't like.

Honestly, at this point calling out their hypocrisy is pointless. We KNOW they're hypocrites. We KNOW they don't care about absolute free speech, just their free speech. We KNOW they aren't anti cancel culture, they're against cancel culture that negatively affects them only. Calling them hypocrites does nothing to them though, it only fuels them. It doesn't change any votes because people who voted for Trump already knew what they were voting for, and if they didn't they're too stupid to understand the truth of it all anyway. Trump promised to be the msot transparent administration in history, but he refuses to answer tons of questions about what Elon is doing. He said he'd release the full unredacted Epstein files and all they're doing is releasing the Epstein files with Trump's name redacted.

The only way to fight against MAGA is to humiliate them and continue to dog them on how poorly the economy is doing for the average person.

[Jastall]

Yeah the novelty on their hypocrisy wore off years ago. Now it's just kind of exhausting.

To be sure. I'll still take some belated amusement on pointing out the irony, pointless as it might be. I'm not going to self-congratulate on predicting the whole "free speech absolutism" talking point was complete nonsense as that was an obvious given.

[Logwyn]

The only way to fight against MAGA is to humiliate them and continue to dog them on how poorly the economy is doing for the average person.

But they'll say...Its gotta get worse before it gets better!

[PhaelixWW]

But they'll say...Its gotta get worse before it gets better!

"Re-elect us because we're only 4 years into our 20-year plan!"

[Polgara]

"Re-elect us because we're only 4 years into our 20-year plan!"

First 4 years of the conceptual stages of a plan I feel.

[Cthulhu 2020]

But they'll say...Its gotta get worse before it gets better!

American voters are fickle and have the collective memory/attention span of a fly. Sure, there are a lot of people who FEEL better when a conservative is in the white house despite material conditions being worse, but a lot of people vote on their day to day conscience. If people start to get really desperate when medicaid/medicare/Social Security is cut, it doesn't matter how much MAGA blasts over the airwaves how close their plan is to completion.

But I still have ZERO hope for 2026 or 2028 unless Elon Musk is out of the picture and kept away from the voting machines.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

athletes aren't people, I guess. neolibs are weird.

Sometimes I wish that were true. Then we could have fun sports where athletes do alllllllll the drugs they want and we get amazing feats and crazy things happening.

[gondrin]

Sometimes I wish that were true. Then we could have fun sports where athletes do alllllllll the drugs they want and we get amazing feats and crazy things happening.

If you want to see that, look no further than Professional body building or Strongmen type competitions. Especially Strongmen. All of them take one or more types of steroids or other enhancement type drugs.

[Mayhem]

Trans athletes are not the same as trans people. If you confuse the two you do so at the detriment of trans rights in general. Unfortunately moderation rules are strict around this issue so I cant comment the ways in which they are different. But the perception of unfairness is not unfounded. I have no issues with trans people or anything like that. The Trump administration forbiding trans people from serving in the military is a disgrace. But suffice to say even Gavin Newsom acknowledges the unfairness on the issue, I wont comment further on this bc moderation is strict.

If genetics is what you see as an issue with fairness in sports, then oh girl, do I have news for you.

Congrats on being not just anti-trans but also a misogynist, well done.