Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Iphie]

A pardon doesn't need to be written, let alone signed, to be valid. Nothing in the Constitution stipulates that.

Edit: Also, the president is still the president until/unless Article 25 is triggered. They can't retroactively declare a president not a president, even if there were some kind of mental incompetence, of which there's still no legitimate proof in Biden's case.

That seems a bit of an oversight...I mean that just means that you can say a pardon was granted...

and I don't think Biden was mentally compromised, trump on the other hand...also, I'm not sure trump would be 25th'ed, even if there's incontrovertible evidence since there's no way the republicans would go along with it.

Your democracy (or republic, whatever you wanna call it it) is under tremendous pressure and a LOT of weak points and failures are laid bare. But that's what you get when people are unwilling to acknowledge that rules and laws written 200+ years ago cannot be valid in perpetuity.

[For_The_Horde]

That's not how it works. If I fly to New York and threaten a tourist, it doesn't matter that I'm from California and the tourist is from Idaho, it's still a New York crime. The events of January 6th happened on federal property, against federal employees, thus it is a federal crime.

Sorry, meant to say representative. And it does get muddy when talking about state officials, and about DC in general when it comes to state crimes. Crimes in DC are preferred to be prosecuted as federal since DC is federal, but that doesn't make them federal only crimes.

[PhaelixWW]

That seems a bit of an oversight...I mean that just means that you can say a pardon was granted...

Well, it won't have any force unless law enforcement can check on the existence of the pardon. Which is why the standard procedure is that of any other legal document like an Executive Order.

But it's not required by the Constitution. So you can't invalidate a pardon on "procedural" grounds because there is no necessary procedure.

and I don't think Biden was mentally compromised, trump on the other hand...also, I'm not sure trump would be 25th'ed, even if there's incontrovertible evidence since there's no way the republicans would go along with it.

It's a moot point for pardons. If the pardon happened before the 25th, it'd be valid because the president is still the president. If it happened after the 25th, obviously he would no longer be the president.

Your democracy (or republic, whatever you wanna call it it) is under tremendous pressure and a LOT of weak points and failures are laid bare. But that's what you get when people are unwilling to acknowledge that rules and laws written 200+ years ago cannot be valid in perpetuity.

To be honest, any government is a house of cards. They all exist only so long as the powers agree that it exists. If enough people in authority wish to circumvent established law, nothing can stop them from toppling the whole system, regardless of the framework.

[DarkTZeratul]

Sorry, meant to say representative. And it does get muddy when talking about state officials, and about DC in general when it comes to state crimes. Crimes in DC are preferred to be prosecuted as federal since DC is federal, but that doesn't make them federal only crimes.

It's not that muddy. They trespassed on federal property and threatened/assaulted federal employees, it's a federal crime. You can't just say something is a state crime because someone from the state was tangentially involved. And to be perfectly frank, they never actually threatened any of the representatives. Not directly. Congress got evacuated and none of the rioters were ever even in the same room.

[Pannonian]

Pretty sure the supreme court will find a way to agree with Trump on voiding pardons. If a democratic president comes along of course the supreme court will suddenly have a change of heart, and democrats will just say "ok" and drop it.

[SAY HER NAME]

There is no perfect system. You can invent the perfect political system and people hungry enough will always find ways to subvert it. Hungary didnt descent into authoritarianism suddenly. Its an EU country with many checks and balances built into it

[Pannonian]

There is no perfect system. You can invent the perfect political system and people hungry enough will always find ways to subvert it. Hungary didnt descent into authoritarianism suddenly. Its an EU country with many checks and balances built into it

Oh please, tell us all you know about Hungary.

You might want to start in the 19th century with the complex situation in the habsburg monarchy, and the hungarians... and that's being kindly ... being a pain in the ass. This has been going on for 2 centuries by now (sorry @Flarelaine). And no, 30 years of democracy vs. 275 years of democracy is a difference imo.


Hungary is very good of picking their raisins, especially from a perceived bigger "subjugator" (though taking money from the big bad subjugator is always okay of course).

Big difference as well: Hungary is kept in check by the EU.

[Muzjhath]

Whats the over under of this judge getting a bullet by some crazy maga guy since they are really going in on the judge atm.

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lol yea, like, idiots just dont really understand that democrats have zero power in congress right now. Republicans will just overturn the filibuster if dems do their one possible obstruction. America voted for this, enjoy republicans having unchecked power for at least another year and a half.

A thing the Democrats could do.
Not show up to any votes. Be there and delay in every committee, then not be there for votes forcing the GOP to make sure enough of their members show up to reach a qorum.

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Every level of government in the US (local, state and federal) will be need to be purged of MAGAts/Trump cultists.

Don't forget about the billionaires backing it all.

If you don't remove those and that class nothing is solved

[Mayhem]

The president isn't elected by people. The president is elected by the Electoral College, comprised of Electors from each state, apportioned per the Constitution.

The various State Legislatures have the power to decide how those Electors are chosen. In most cases, that process is a simple popular vote, and is codified in the State Constitution. Anything not covered by the State Constitution can be passed as a law, but any change to the State Constitution typically requires a supermajority.

Yes, I know of the Electoral College, but as you say yourself, the process for choosing the electors is in most cases by simple popular vote.

So what you are saying is, even if other states know that one party gets suppressed (legally according to state law) in other states so much so that the popular vote doesn't decide who becomes president they couldn't do anything about it?

[Gabriel]

There is no perfect system. You can invent the perfect political system and people greedy enough will always find ways to subvert it. Hungary didnt descent into authoritarianism suddenly. Its an EU country with many checks and balances built into it

Fixed that for you.

[En Sabah Nur]

They know the shit they say is wrong, at some level. But agreeing with it shows they're part of the "in" group

I legitimately feel sorry for you. You're so eager to justify your shitty ideology that you'll jump into a delusional sinkhole and still swim downwards.

Reminder that you guys are talking about a person that was (or at least pretended to be) a left-leaning voter, but quite literally said "If you can't beat em, join em" after Trump won.

If they weren't pretending all along, it is genuinely just about being on the side of whoever won. There is no real conviction there, they just want to be a "winner." If they were pretending all along, I think you can literally see that the brain rot has gotten worse and worse since Trump won. Besides posting links and then running away, they always seem to be the easiest links to debunk, which seems to be what people like this revel in doing. Maybe its a kink.

[PhaelixWW]

So what you are saying is, even if other states know that one party gets suppressed (legally according to state law) in other states so much so that the popular vote doesn't decide who becomes president they couldn't do anything about it?

Correct. But again, in any situation in which the state changes those laws, that state would already have to be pretty much a shoo-in for the party that would benefit from the change. So it's not likely to change the result of a presidential election much at all, at least right away.

And if they started doing that in some states, you'd likely see a backlash in the states that are still in play, leading to more chance that that party would ultimately lose the election.

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Reminder that you guys are talking about a person that was (or at least pretended to be) a left-leaning voter, but quite literally said "If you can't beat em, join em" after Trump won.

Nobody believes that poster was a left-leaning voter.

[En Sabah Nur]

Nobody believes that poster was a left-leaning voter.

I'm sure he probably wants to believe it, at least for narrative purposes lol

[Breccia]

The Gridiron Club is one of the oldest and most selective journalist groups in the USA. For 140 years, they've had an annual dinner, similar to the WH Correspondent's Dinner in its humorous tone. Every President in the last 140 years (except Cleveland) has attended at least once.

For the first time ever ever, they toasted the 1st Amendment and not the President.

Incidentally, both Trump and his press secretary have already publicly committed to missing the WHCD, hosted by an intelligent African American woman.

[Mayhem]

Correct. But again, in any situation in which the state changes those laws, that state would already have to be pretty much a shoo-in for the party that would benefit from the change. So it's not likely to change the result of a presidential election much at all, at least right away.

And if they started doing that in some states, you'd likely see a backlash in the states that are still in play, leading to more chance that that party would ultimately lose the election.

Oh, I am just trying to figure out what the most lawful way would be for the current government to influence upcoming elections.

We have money, with Musk currently trying to influence the Wisconsin Supreme Court election. Then there is prosecution, with the DOJ, the FBI, and other agencies in control by lunatics. Of course, we have the media controlled by billionaires who seem to care very little about democracy. And I am pretty sure violence is also on the table, with enough cultists around who would gladly stop Democrats from voting.

[Santti]

Nobody believes that poster was a left-leaning voter.

Isn't it funny how it's always right-leaning people pretending they are left, and never the other way around?

[Xath]

More News about "Freedom Cities" expanding on the wired article https://www.salon.com/2025/03/17/the...s-destruction/ this shit is real and what they are pushing for. We are quickly going to come a head I legitimately don't think we have two years.

[Draco-Onis]

1). We have always had free/fair elections. There has never been any evidence of wide-spread voting fraud that has affected elections. Ever. Like Obama/Biden said, "you can't just love your country when you win."

You support a guy who is still saying that the 2020 election was unfair and stolen from him even after just winning.

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More News about "Freedom Cities" expanding on the wired article https://www.salon.com/2025/03/17/the...s-destruction/ this shit is real and what they are pushing for. We are quickly going to come a head I legitimately don't think we have two years.

I don't think these "geniuses" have accounted for the part where they get to convince people to want to actually live there for any serious length of time. These people see a dystopian future as aspirational instead of a dire warning.

[Belize]

I don't think these "geniuses" have accounted for the part where they get to convince people to want to actually live there for any serious length of time. These people see a dystopian future as aspirational instead of a dire warning.

Make the people suffer and desperate enough and I'm willing to guarantee a large portion of the population would be willing to slave away for scraps.

That's not even considering the numerous Woke Libertarians that would flock to these enclaves because they're too stupid to understand they're being exploited...

[Cthulhu 2020]

Isn't it funny how it's always right-leaning people pretending they are left, and never the other way around?

"Why I left the left"

Checks person's history.

Fox News Republican shill before attempting to purge their history.

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You support a guy who is still saying that the 2020 election was unfair and stolen from him even after just winning.

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I don't think these "geniuses" have accounted for the part where they get to convince people to want to actually live there for any serious length of time. These people see a dystopian future as aspirational instead of a dire warning.

What I find wild about these people who want to get rid of social security and medicare are like "Why would you trust the government with your retirement and healthcare?!" Like, YOU'RE the one who wants to take it away. It was working fine before Republicans decided they wanted to get rid of it. It was clearly working just fine and now the argument as for why it shouldn't exist is that one day the government might take it away... an argument made by the people who WANT it taken away.

"Haha, you trusted us with your retirement and healthcare and now we're going to take it all from you, now don't you feel stupid for trusting a government? You should have been putting your money into crypto!"