Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

I trivially have enough CNN points to just let their fact checker do the heavy lifting for me.

You don't need the summary. Trump lies all the time about everything, and repeats the same objective falsehoods over and over hoping they magically become true.

Trump’s 2024 vote total

While criticizing a federal judge who is presiding over a challenge to one of Trump’s immigration actions, Trump exaggerated his own vote total in the 2024 election – saying of the judge, “He didn’t run for president. He didn’t get much more than 80 million votes.” Trump received about 77.3 million votes in the 2024 election, his highest total in the three consecutive presidential elections in which he was a candidate. There is no basis for his repeated suggestions that the 2024 count was inaccurate.

Tariffs and trade deficits

Honda and Indiana: While touting his use of tariffs on imported goods to get companies to increase their US manufacturing, Trump claimed, as he did in his address to Congress early this month, that Honda is building a new factory in Indiana.

“We have a big one: Honda is building – just announced – a really big plant in Indiana,” he said Friday.

But Honda has made no such announcement. Reuters, citing anonymous sources, reported early this month that Honda is planning to build its next-generation Civic hybrid in Indiana rather than Mexico as originally planned. The report did not say Honda was building a new factory; it already builds vehicles at an existing Indiana plant.

In a statement to CNN on Wednesday, Honda thanked Trump “for recognizing our commitment to manufacturing vehicles in America” and touted its investment of “over $3 billion in advanced vehicle manufacturing in America in just the past three years” – but also noted, “Honda did not announce plans for a new plant in the U.S. at this time.” Honda said Friday, after Trump’s latest remarks, that this statement still stands.

The US trade deficit with China: Trump repeated his false claim that the US trade deficit with China has hit $1 trillion or more, again blaming former President Joe Biden for this supposed situation. Trump said: “We have a trillion-dollar deficit, because of Biden, with President Xi; more than that – I mean, I’ve heard $1.2 trillion.”

You knew "I've heard" would be on the list. Let me make this clear: "I've heard" is still a lie. Not only did Trump not hear that, because it's false, but even if he did, he's in a position to know such a statement is false. If he hates trade gaps as much as he claims, he's one Google search away from finding the accurate number. Either he lied on purpose, or heard an unreasonable, blatant lie that he wanted to believe, Strawman style. Neither trait is redeeming.

Those numbers are not close to accurate. In fact, official federal figures show that the 2024 deficit with China in goods and services trade was $263.3 billion. That’s up from $252.1 billion in 2023 – but lower than in every year of Trump’s first presidency. The 2024 deficit with China in goods trade alone was $295.2 billion.

The US trade deficit with Canada: Reiterating his desire for Canada to become the 51st US state, Trump repeated his false claim that “it costs us $200 billion a year in subsidy to keep Canada afloat.” Trump has repeatedly used this $200 billion figure to describe the US trade deficit with Canada, which is actually far lower than that; official US statistics show the 2024 deficit with Canada in goods and services trade was $35.7 billion and $70.6 billion in goods trade alone. Even if he was this time using the word “subsidy” more broadly, there is no basis for the claim.

Canada’s dairy tariffs: Trump correctly noted that Canada has 270% tariffs on some US dairy products. However, he failed to mention that Canada’s high dairy tariffs only kick in after the US hits a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product, so the tariffs aren’t being applied.

Ukraine and NATO

US aid to Ukraine: Trump repeated his regular false claim that the US has provided “$350 billion” in aid to Ukraine. There is no basis for this figure. According to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German think tank that closely tracks wartime aid to Ukraine, the US had committed about $129 billion in total wartime military, financial and humanitarian aid to Ukraine through December 2024 (at current exchange rates) and actually allocated about $123 billion of that sum.

It’s possible to arrive at different totals using different counting methodologies, but there is no apparent basis for Trump’s “$350 billion” figure. The US government inspector general overseeing the Ukraine response says on its website that the US had appropriated about $183 billion for the Ukraine response through December 2024, including about $83 billion actually disbursed – and that includes funding spent in the US or sent to countries other than Ukraine.

The existence of NATO: Trump repeated his false claim that “NATO was gone until I came along,” since he convinced member countries to spend more on defense. There is no basis for the claim that NATO was vanishing without him. One expert on NATO, George Washington University professor Erwan Lagadec, told CNN in 2023, when Trump made similar comments, that the claim “doesn’t make sense, obviously,” since the only NATO member that had given any indication in recent years that it was thinking about leaving the alliance was the US itself under Trump.

This time, Trump claimed that both the current secretary general of NATO, Mark Rutte, and his predecessor, Jens Stoltenberg, said, “If it wasn’t for Trump you wouldn’t even have a NATO.” It’s not clear what they might have told Trump in private, but neither went nearly that far in public. Both Rutte and Stoltenberg publicly praised Trump for achieving increases in NATO members’ defense spending but didn’t go so far as saying the alliance would have disappeared without him.

I am going to flat-out contradict any suggestions that either UN SecGen told Trump in private "you saved NATO" but did not do so in public. Trump is a sociopathic narcissist who runs on praise. It would have been trivial for them to give such an appraisal in public if they meant it.

NATO members’ spending: Trump repeated his false claim that, before his first presidency, some NATO countries “weren’t paying their bills.” NATO’s target of having its members each spend 2% of their gross domestic product on defense is a self-described “guideline” that does not create “bills”; during and prior to Trump’s first presidency, the guideline was written in forgiving language that made clear that it was not a firm commitment. That version of the guideline, created at a NATO summit in Wales in 2014, said members that had yet to reach 2% would “aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO’s capability shortfalls.” In other words, the members that were below 2% in 2014 didn’t even have to promise to hit the target by 2024 – simply to make an effort to do so by then.

Immigration and drug deaths

The number of migrants: Trump repeated his false claim that “21 million” migrants were allowed into the country by the Biden administration, “not even including the gotaways” who evaded detection. This is another major exaggeration. Through December 2024, the last full month under the Biden administration, the country had recorded under 11 million nationwide “encounters” with migrants during that administration, including millions who were rapidly expelled from the country; even adding in so-called gotaways who evaded detection, estimated by House Republicans as being roughly 2.2 million, there’s no way the total is “21 million.”

Immigration, prisons and mental institutions: Trump repeated his regular but unsubstantiated claim that “many” migrants who crossed the border during the Biden administration “were from jails and prisons and mental institutions,” adding that “many” came from jails in South America, Africa and “the Congo” in particular. Trump has never provided proof for these claims, which his own presidential campaign was unable to corroborate; experts on both the Democratic Republic of Congo and the neighboring Republic of Congo have told CNN there is no evidence for Trump’s previous claims that “the Congo” deliberately emptied prisons to somehow send inmates to the US as migrants; and the government of each of these countries has told CNN that the claims are baseless.

Fentanyl deaths: Talking about the border and drug trafficking, Trump repeated his inaccurate rejection of official statistics on fentanyl overdose deaths: “I think the number is much higher than the 125 (thousand), 115 (thousand) that you – I think it’s closer to 300,000 people a year.”

We'll come back to this one in just a bit.

There is no basis for Trump’s opinion. In the 12-month period ending in October 2024, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates there were 52,385 deaths involving synthetic opioids including fentanyl – a terrible number, but nowhere close to what Trump said. Even at the peak, US deaths involving synthetic opioids hovered under 80,000 for any given 12-month period.

When Trump made similar “300,000” claims in 2024, Dr. Andrew Kolodny, medical director of the Opioid Policy Research Collaborative at Brandeis University, told CNN that this is “a made-up number,” saying, “I have no idea where Trump is getting ‘300,000’ from.”

Kolodny said it’s likely that the number of US overdose deaths is undercounted, but that there is no apparent basis for Trump’s insistence that the real number is nearly triple the reported number. And Kolodny said the undercount issue is centered not on overdoses from illicit fentanyl smuggled across the southern border but on seniors’ overdoses from accidentally taking too much of their legal prescription medications.

"Well hold on! Surely Trump was counting people who were fentanyl addicts, who died due to reasons related to them being fentanyl addicts. Like, if someone gets high and falls off a roof, or gets in a car crash, or a sober person is run over by a high person. That should be there, right?"

That's a valid opinion to discuss. Sadly, Trump does not share this opinion.

Trump claimed that, during the riot at the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, “nobody was killed” other than Ashli Babbitt, a rioter who was shot by a police officer as she tried to climb through a broken window into the Speaker’s Lobby outside the House of Representatives.

Now as everyone knows, the number of deaths was five. Their causes of deaths were mixed, but definitely impacted by, say, being pepper sprayed or beaten by Trump supporters during an insurrection. So, Trump supporters must admit Trump lied about the number of deaths during the insurrection, that he lied about the number of fentanyl deaths, or torture themselves trying to make him honest about both only to fail and be mocked by me.

Trump lies so much, his own lies contradict his other lies.

Trump has no honest policies, because his policies are all built on falsehoods. Quite frankly, Trump supporters should be upset with him. 50,000 American deaths due to fentanyl is tragic. A $300 billion trade gap with China is a lot of money. 11 million hypothetical illegal immigrants is something that would be concerning to people who think Mexicans are drug-using rapists. The fact that Trump himself thinks the honest numbers aren't good enough, and has to inflate everything by two, six, hundreds at times, is Trump admitting "the things I'm claiming are causes of my actions aren't valid causes even by my standards".

Instead, the cultists and literal worshippers will point at Trump's objectively false claims and accept them, because they would rather stay intentionally ill-informed than even say something as mild as "Okay, Trump exaggerated, but there's a legitimate problem that needs to be dealt with". Their lack of such admission will be taken instead as admission they know the problem isn't really bad enough for the changes Trump is making/proposing, but they want them done anyhow despite insufficient cause.

[Xath]

Well according to them anyways unless congress passes laws there's zero chance terrorism charges would hold up in court instead of plain vandalism. It is insane that immigrants are being held in less regard than Elon's shitty cars that are literally falling apart.

He isn't planning on them going to court he is planning on disappearing them he said as much.

[NED funded]

The 22 cases include Chicago resident Julio Noriega, 54, a U.S. citizen who, according to court documents, was arrested, handcuffed and spent most of the night at an ICE processing center in suburban Broadview. He was never questioned about his citizenship and was only released after agents looked at his ID.

“I was born in Chicago, Illinois, and am a United States citizen,” Noriega said in his statement, adding that on Jan. 31, after buying pizza in Berwyn he was surrounded by ICE agents and arrested. Officers took away his wallet, which had his ID and Social Security card. “They then handcuffed me and pushed me into a white van where other people were handcuffed as well.”

In another case of ICE is an organization lead by both evil and incompetent people. Arresting a US citizen, holding them the entire night and only after all that just then bothering to check if they are a US citizen. This is literally racial profiling lol.

[Breccia]

Elon Musk begs his remaining shareholders to stop selling Tesla stock after it drops 50% in two months.

Actual words he spoke in public:

I understand if you don’t want to buy our product, but you don’t have to burn it down. That’s a bit unreasonable.

He then closed the Department of Education, canceled Social Security checks, and tried to give Ukraine to Putin.

[Moralgy]

In another case of ICE is an organization lead by both evil and incompetent people. Arresting a US citizen, holding them the entire night and only after all that just then bothering to check if they are a US citizen. This is literally racial profiling lol.

It starts as racial profiling and makes it way to political profiling fast. Citizens are not safe no matter what as long as republicans refuse to resist this shit. Ya know what? republicans cheer this on just check cuckservative reddit atm.

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Bro just started clapping for herself as she was boo'd to death. 1:20 roughly

[Bwgmon]

Elon Musk begs his remaining shareholders to stop selling Tesla stock after it drops 50% in two months.

Mr. "empathy is the greatest weakness" is begging for people to show him empathy. Sad!

[Endus]

Elon Musk begs his remaining shareholders to stop selling Tesla stock after it drops 50% in two months.

Mr. Richest Man in the World clearly understands Tesla is cooked, and is about to die forever.

If he didn't, and thought Tesla was going to recover and that stock price was gonna shoot back up any day now, he'd just buy those shares himself at the current cheap price. And then he'd make a ton of money when the stock recovers, and be able to slowly sell them back out at peak prices again. Even if it was only going to recover to 80% of its value before the crash, that's still a huge return.

And he's not doing that.

Because he assumes it won't recover.

The CEO doesn't believe in his own company. That's the headline here.

[Sunseeker]

Mr. Richest Man in the World clearly understands Tesla is cooked, and is about to die forever.

If he didn't, and thought Tesla was going to recover and that stock price was gonna shoot back up any day now, he'd just buy those shares himself at the current cheap price. And then he'd make a ton of money when the stock recovers, and be able to slowly sell them back out at peak prices again. Even if it was only going to recover to 80% of its value before the crash, that's still a huge return.

And he's not doing that.

Because he assumes it won't recover.

The CEO doesn't believe in his own company. That's the headline here.

Who needs to own Tesla when you own the USA?

[NED funded]

Mr. Richest Man in the World clearly understands Tesla is cooked, and is about to die forever.

If he didn't, and thought Tesla was going to recover and that stock price was gonna shoot back up any day now, he'd just buy those shares himself at the current cheap price. And then he'd make a ton of money when the stock recovers, and be able to slowly sell them back out at peak prices again. Even if it was only going to recover to 80% of its value before the crash, that's still a huge return.

And he's not doing that.

Because he assumes it won't recover.

The CEO doesn't believe in his own company. That's the headline here.

You can actually check the insider activity of Tesla

https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activi...sider-activity

0 people are buying. These are the people that have personal stakes on Tesla and have knowledge of whats happening

Dunno if Tesla is finished but its not a good look for the company. It makes sense too. Tesla is not as valuable as Toyota. That was all hype and people were willing to let it slide cuz they liked Musk and what he did with the company. Now Tesla hasnt done anything interesting since 2019 when they released the model 3, and Musk is destroying the government in a ketamine fueled rampage

[Nymrohd]

I think even if Musk was not involved, Tesla would still crash. Maybe not as fast but still. Grossly overvalued as a stock and at this point a poor product.

[Teriz]

The only thing more fun than watching Tesla nosedive is watching Fox News and Right Wing media trying to save it.

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You can actually check the insider activity of Tesla

https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activi...sider-activity

0 people are buying. These are the people that have personal stakes on Tesla and have knowledge of whats happening

Dunno if Tesla is finished but its not a good look for the company. It makes sense too. Tesla is not as valuable as Toyota. That was all hype and people were willing to let it slide cuz they liked Musk and what he did with the company. Now Tesla hasnt done anything interesting since 2019 when they released the model 3, and Musk is destroying the government in a ketamine fueled rampage

Not only that, but the people who tend to buy Teslas are the people Musk, Trump, and MAGA are currently dumping on. If you're liberal and environmentally conscious, why the heck would you support Musk right now? He has completely moved to the other side of the political spectrum.

[Gabriel]

Unlike women, Teslers let conservatives ride them, heyooooo

It's only a matter of time before Elon installs AGI in his cars and they start refusing to be driven by incels.

[NED funded]

The only thing more fun than watching Tesla nosedive is watching Fox News and Right Wing media trying to save it.

,Even Fox News and Right Wingers have become cynics on this. They arent defending the company as a car manufacturing company or even as a tech company, they are defending the stock price. When I saw Lutnick ,the secretary of commerce btw, defend Tesla the only thing he was saying was how cheap the stock was and what a great opportunity it would be to buy the stock. He didnt even bother to mention anything cool Tesla did to hype it up, it was all about the stock price. Which like fair enough lol, but it comes off as cynical.

[Xath]

,Even Fox News and Right Wingers have become cynics on this. They arent defending the company as a car manufacturing company or even as a tech company, they are defending the stock price. When I saw Lutnick ,the secretary of commerce btw, defend Tesla the only thing he was saying was how cheap the stock was and what a great opportunity it would be to buy the stock. He didnt even bother to mention anything cool Tesla did to hype it up, it was all about the stock price. Which like fair enough lol, but it comes off as cynical.

It's not fair enough but it's still overvaluled as hell

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It starts as racial profiling and makes it way to political profiling fast. Citizens are not safe no matter what as long as republicans refuse to resist this shit. Ya know what? republicans cheer this on just check cuckservative reddit atm.

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Bro just started clapping for herself as she was boo'd to death. 1:20 roughly

That sub is such a mindfuck to look at. They have zero topics about the social security threats on the front page it's actually mindboggling.

[s_bushido]

I think even if Musk was not involved, Tesla would still crash. Maybe not as fast but still. Grossly overvalued as a stock and at this point a poor product.

I think if Musk was not involved, it wouldn't have been this inflated in the first place. People really bought into that Tony Stark horseshit.

[NED funded]

In fairness to Tesla, people didnt care that much bc Tesla was doing genuinely cool stuff and breaking new ground for a decent while. After Tesla gave up on scaling up and decided to focus on the cybertruck and self driving it kind of died off and people are only realizing now that Elon is crashing out (and taking us with him no survivors)

[ringpriest]

Elon Musk begs his remaining shareholders to stop selling Tesla stock after it drops 50% in two months.

He needs them to wait until after the board and executives finish dumping theirs:

Top Tesla Shareholders Selling Off Stock

Several top executives and board members at Tesla have sold significant portions of their stock holdings, according to filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

These transactions, totaling over $100 million, come amid a decline in Tesla's stock price and growing reports of protests against the car company.

[Rasulis]

In fairness to Tesla, people didnt care that much bc Tesla was doing genuinely cool stuff and breaking new ground for a decent while. After Tesla gave up on scaling up and decided to focus on the cybertruck and self driving it kind of died off and people are only realizing now that Elon is crashing out (and taking us with him no survivors)

It appears that Tesla is switching its focus from EV to robotaxi.

Tesla was granted a permit from the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) to run a transportation service in the state. This is the first step in Tesla’s quest to offer driverless taxi rides in California, but there is still a long way to go until that happens.

As noted by TechCrunch, the American EV maker’s permit allows it to operate what is basically a shuttle service for employees with drivers behind the steering wheel. Tesla applied for the transport charter permit (TCP) in November 2024. According to the commission, this type of permit allows companies to offer prearranged transportation services like roundtrip sightseeing.

No different than those tech companies' employee bus service in the Bay Area. Still, it is a steppingstone for their robotaxi ambition.

At Autonomous level 2, Tesla autonomous driving AI has a long way to go. The company is also starting from zero. Waymo service has now expanded to include San Francisco International Airport, Mountain View, Los Altos, Palo Altos and Sunnyvale. Supposedly Waymo driving AI is close to Autonomous level 5.

SpaceX value in private market has skyrocketed. No pun intended. SpaceX has sole contract for deployment of DoD spy satellites and Starlink has the contract for development of DoD spy satellite system. His meeting with Hegseth on Friday was definitely a serious conflict of interest breach.

Now all he has to do is get a government contract for his Boring Company which is currently floundering.

[Mayhem]

It appears that Tesla is switching its focus from EV to robotaxi.

Tesla was granted a permit from the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) to run a transportation service in the state. This is the first step in Tesla’s quest to offer driverless taxi rides in California, but there is still a long way to go until that happens.

As noted by TechCrunch, the American EV maker’s permit allows it to operate what is basically a shuttle service for employees with drivers behind the steering wheel. Tesla applied for the transport charter permit (TCP) in November 2024. According to the commission, this type of permit allows companies to offer prearranged transportation services like roundtrip sightseeing.

No different than those tech companies' employee bus service in the Bay Area. Still, it is a steppingstone for their robotaxi ambition.

At Autonomous level 2, Tesla autonomous driving AI has a long way to go. The company is also starting from zero. Waymo service has now expanded to include San Francisco International Airport, Mountain View, Los Altos, Palo Altos and Sunnyvale. Supposedly Waymo driving AI is close to Autonomous level 5.

SpaceX value in private market has skyrocketed. No pun intended. SpaceX has sole contract for deployment of DoD spy satellites and Starlink has the contract for development of DoD spy satellite system. His meeting with Hegseth on Friday was definitely a serious conflict of interest breach.

Now all he has to do is get a government contract for his Boring Company which is currently floundering.

Oh, he can get all the contracts he wants, the problem will remain that he is really bad at delivering. So the DoD siding with Musk means bad news for security and lots of government money for Musk.

[Draco-Onis]

Elon Musk begs his remaining shareholders to stop selling Tesla stock after it drops 50% in two months.

Those words ring even more hollow when you realize his own brother has been dumping a ton of Tesla stocks.

- - - Updated - - -

It appears that Tesla is switching its focus from EV to robotaxi.

Tesla was granted a permit from the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) to run a transportation service in the state. This is the first step in Tesla’s quest to offer driverless taxi rides in California, but there is still a long way to go until that happens.

As noted by TechCrunch, the American EV maker’s permit allows it to operate what is basically a shuttle service for employees with drivers behind the steering wheel. Tesla applied for the transport charter permit (TCP) in November 2024. According to the commission, this type of permit allows companies to offer prearranged transportation services like roundtrip sightseeing.

No different than those tech companies' employee bus service in the Bay Area. Still, it is a steppingstone for their robotaxi ambition.

At Autonomous level 2, Tesla autonomous driving AI has a long way to go. The company is also starting from zero. Waymo service has now expanded to include San Francisco International Airport, Mountain View, Los Altos, Palo Altos and Sunnyvale. Supposedly Waymo driving AI is close to Autonomous level 5.

SpaceX value in private market has skyrocketed. No pun intended. SpaceX has sole contract for deployment of DoD spy satellites and Starlink has the contract for development of DoD spy satellite system. His meeting with Hegseth on Friday was definitely a serious conflict of interest breach.

Now all he has to do is get a government contract for his Boring Company which is currently floundering.

There's also Twitter which has the clearing to be a payment platform, I am sure he will steal I mean rob I mean process transactions for the treasury for a "small fee". Let's face it Elon knew Tesla was going to die a long time ago you can only keep the grift going for so long, the only way for him to become a trillionaire is to rob the rest of us blind so he bought himself the presidency.