Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

But her Emails!

What a farce.

so the same thing as last administration, tons of use of personal civilian email for official government bidness

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https://www.latimes.com/environment/...documents-show

https://archive.is/Cw9Gj

The Trump administration’s efforts to dismantle environmental protections and roll back nationwide progress toward clean energy disproportionately target California and other blue states, internal documents show.

As early as this week, the Department of Energy may pull funding from hundreds of projects — many of which were bolstered by President Biden’s bipartisan infrastructure law and are geared toward climate-friendly initiatives such as solar power, heat pumps, battery storage and renewable fuels, according to a leaked list reviewed by The Times.

The cuts could include as many as 262 projects in the DOE’s Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, of which roughly 80% are based in states that did not go for Trump in the 2024 presidential election.

Also on the chopping block are nearly two dozen projects in the Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations, including a major national effort known as the Regional Clean Hydrogen Hubs (H2Hubs) Program, which aims to accelerate the development of hydrogen projects that can replace planet-warming fossil fuels.

Those cuts, too, are not applied equally: Of the seven states and regions selected to participate in the $7-billion federal hydrogen project, the four set to be gutted are in primarily Democratic areas.

The hydrogen incubators on the cut list include a hub in California; a Mid-Atlantic hub in Pennsylvania, Delaware and New Jersey; a Pacific Northwest hub in Oregon, Washington and Montana; and a Midwest hub in Illinois, Indiana and Michigan.

Meanwhile, the hydrogen hubs in red states and regions are safe, the list shows, including a large hub in Texas; a “heartland” hub in Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota; and an Appalachia hub in Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

Oh look

Donald and Republicans again explicitly targeting Democratic states/areas to yank funding from while protecting the same funding in Republican states/areas.

This is the Donald precedent, once more. If Democrats get back into power they should absolutely pull all federal socialist dollars from Republican states and leave them hanging in the breeze. Republicans under Donald have established the precedent of weaponizing the federal government against Americans who follow the other party, Democrats should follow suit.

[SAY HER NAME]

https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...ned-mid-trial/

They arrested someone literally mid trial and the judge held the ICE agent on contempt.

For the record it looks like the guy is guilty of some horrible stuff. You should not arrest him mid trial tho. Thats insane

[Edge-]

https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...ned-mid-trial/

They arrested someone literally mid trial and the judge held the ICE agent on contempt.

For the record it looks like the guy is guilty of some horrible stuff. You should not arrest him mid trial tho. Thats insane

was guilty and served time

and now his case is dismissed, apparently with prejudice, so the state can't bring the charges against him again.

10/10 shit, yo, the incompetent racists are still doing dumb things

[Corvus]

And russia has rejected trumps peace pla in its current.form (ie, Ukraine continues to exist) . Expect Trump to do nothing, or blame Ukraine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-current-form

[Tech614]

https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...ned-mid-trial/

They arrested someone literally mid trial and the judge held the ICE agent on contempt.

For the record it looks like the guy is guilty of some horrible stuff. You should not arrest him mid trial tho. Thats insane

"Guilty of some horrible stuff" Uhh all I see is non violent drug charges in the article and he served his time for those already? Or are we saying false information submitted for an ID this trial was for is the "horrible stuff"?

Stop treating non violent criminals like they're animals to justify fascism. You are literally lock step with MAGA for someone who tries to claim you're against Trump.

[Draco-Onis]

So we have a guy, which the authorities claim they have clear cut evidence that he is a member of MS-13 and that he poses a risk to the community, running around freely for more than 6 years and no one brought any charges and tried to convict him? And you believe this story?

The point of due process is that you don't have to believe his story and when you get rid of people you can make sure you are deporting the right ones. I don't know what the argument here is, we have given due process to the worst people imaginable. Are immigrants some new magical humans that should be treated different? are immigrants mutants with powers?

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Oh look

Donald and Republicans again explicitly targeting Democratic states/areas to yank funding from while protecting the same funding in Republican states/areas.

This is the Donald precedent, once more. If Democrats get back into power they should absolutely pull all federal socialist dollars from Republican states and leave them hanging in the breeze. Republicans under Donald have established the precedent of weaponizing the federal government against Americans who follow the other party, Democrats should follow suit.

Man if only democrats had anyone within their ranks with those kinds of balls heck I will settle for evidence any of them have one.

[postman1782]

Just to wipe away the bias on the story, the man in question went before a judge and ICE presented sufficient evidence that he was an MS-13 gang member, deny him bond, and order his removal. That was a judge. That was due process afforded to an illegal alien. The Atlantic does its readers a disservice by concealing all that behind "Maryland father."

The asylum claim and torture allegation should still have led to his deportation, but to a third country. None of this clears the Trump administration from their mistake.

No they didn't.

[Edge-]

"Guilty of some horrible stuff" Uhh all I see is non violent drug charges in the article and he served his time for those already? Or are we saying false information submitted for an ID this trial was for is the "horrible stuff"?

Stop treating non violent criminals like they're animals to justify fascism. You are literally lock step with MAGA for someone who tries to claim you're against Trump.

but you see they're brown so clearly they're bad. ned will be upset at this probably, but his own posting history indicates otherwise. just like el salvador is a land of terrible monsters who won't give the guy back even though the us government didn't even ask for him back, according to ned

[fwc577]

Will be interesting… I went and voted. Turnout in my small town was already up to 16k which indicates a significant turnout here.

[Edge-]

No they didn't.

i mean, he's sort of correct. those things happened, generally

but he just studiously chose to ignore the events of linear time after that because it was horribly inconvenient to his attempt to lie and make the man out to be a dangerous criminal when there's simply no evidence to that, but instead evidence of ongoing racist incompetence by ICE

[Shpriest]

I don't know what the argument here is

That was directed at the resident fascist, aka thedung. My point was that even though they claimed to have evidence that he is a gang member and a danger, they only tried to deport him. When that failed he should have been charged, right? And since that did not happen, its very hard to believe they had anything against him in the first place.

[Kaleredar]

The point of due process is that you don't have to believe his story and when you get rid of people you can make sure you are deporting the right ones. I don't know what the argument here is, we have given due process to the worst people imaginable. Are immigrants some new magical humans that should be treated different? are immigrants mutants with powers?

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Man if only democrats had anyone within their ranks with those kinds of balls heck I will settle for evidence any of them have one.

Democrats generally aspire to be effective if unexciting leaders.

Good leaders don’t lead from a place of vengeance.

Leaders that lead with vengeance in their hearts are republicans. Because they aren’t actually trying to lead. Leading with vengeance is ineffectual and accomplishes nothing because republicans don’t want to be effective or accomplish anything.

You going to try and build universal healthcare and pass civil and voting rights? Does that get socketed in alongside pulling funding from red states? Does it happen before? After? Or just the general vibe of the presidency? Would probably make running down ballot initiatives and candidates in those states pretty difficult, I’d imagine.

[tehdang]

You are confusing things. And I dont know if this is on purpose or not since this is the third time I am repeating this. He was found to be a credible threat to his community and likely member of MS13 when he was denied bond. Bond hearings are not the same as a proper conviction of being MS13 or anything to the like. The judge did not commit a mistake there. They believed ICE and that was fine. In the subsequent year when he was arguing to stay he was able to prove that the evidence of him being MS13 couldnt be found wherever they looked.

The removal was bc was an illegal immigrant. Not bc he was an MS13 member in addition of.

And yes if you bothered to read the complaint (which neither the DOJ or ICE put any claims against) there it goes into detail as to that evidence. Read the complaint. The fact section is not that long.









https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...578815.1.0.pdf

And you know what, if the Trump admin wanted to contest any of these facts, do you know where that would happen? In a hearing to remove his withdrawal.

MAGA Lawyer #435 can file a complaint too. You realize this? "Read the complaint filed in March this year" is duly responded to as "Read the case history, the judicial rulings, and shit that's not just from his lawyer." I am starting to give up on asking you to review the due process and deportation stemming back from 2019, and beginning to ask you if you acknowledge the difference between a complaint by a party to a case that's currently before a judge and rulings by a judge.

I'm talking about adjudication and due process at the start of this man's lengthy and stalled deportation. This is particular to you, since you've swept up his judicial history of six years in a complaint from last week. Which, if you're really complaining about due process, it doesn't start a week ago.

You're arguing with shadows if you think I believe he was convicted. My response to "hearings are not the same as a proper conviction" is "I never said he was convicted of a crime." A judge was shown evidence at a trial that convinced him that he was a member of MS-13, in a process of denying him bond.

If you're, in fact, a champion of due process, please comment and confirm that he received a hearing, and a removal order, appealed it, and had another judge confirm it. He was also determined to be a flight risk. These were judicial proceedings, not [i]complaints[/b]. He switched up tactics to avoid the removal order, and claimed asylum. He got a withholding of removal (again, this isn't the complaint, this is judicial). Due process is not contravened by removing him to a third country, such an order only applies to El Salvador (1208.17, speaking of law). So, I hope you can agree that due process would have been served if he was removed to Mexico or another, and the only violation was of the country of destination.

Again, this is because of your mantra of due process. If you were always on board with throwing him out of the country legally, and the mistake happened in destination, and due process could have been followed in his ouster by choosing a different destination, then state so.

and then noting how there's no actual evidence of him ever being in ms-13 as you have tried claiming based off that older case where the government admitted they had no actual evidence

It's really hard to continue if you're ignoring the evidence. Just say that there was evidence, and you didn't like it. You didn't think it was strong enough. Or whatever. It's too difficult to invalidate justice on one hand, and claim you're pursuing it on the next.

[Kaleredar]

And russia has rejected trumps peace pla in its current.form (ie, Ukraine continues to exist) . Expect Trump to do nothing, or blame Ukraine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-current-form

Then all that happened of note is that trump was made to look like a fool. Again.

It’s the best we could have realistically hoped for in that interaction.

[Doomcookie]

MAGA Lawyer #435 can file a complaint too. You realize this? "Read the complaint filed in March this year" is duly responded to as "Read the case history, the judicial rulings, and shit that's not just from his lawyer." I am starting to give up on asking you to review the due process and deportation stemming back from 2019, and beginning to ask you if you acknowledge the difference between a complaint by a party to a case that's currently before a judge and rulings by a judge.

I'm talking about adjudication and due process at the start of this man's lengthy and stalled deportation. This is particular to you, since you've swept up his judicial history of six years in a complaint from last week. Which, if you're really complaining about due process, it doesn't start a week ago.

You're arguing with shadows if you think I believe he was convicted. My response to "hearings are not the same as a proper conviction" is "I never said he was convicted of a crime." A judge was shown evidence at a trial that convinced him that he was a member of MS-13, in a process of denying him bond.

If you're, in fact, a champion of due process, please comment and confirm that he received a hearing, and a removal order, appealed it, and had another judge confirm it. He was also determined to be a flight risk. These were judicial proceedings, not [i]complaints[/b]. He switched up tactics to avoid the removal order, and claimed asylum. He got a withholding of removal (again, this isn't the complaint, this is judicial). Due process is not contravened by removing him to a third country, such an order only applies to El Salvador (1208.17, speaking of law). So, I hope you can agree that due process would have been served if he was removed to Mexico or another, and the only violation was of the country of destination.

Again, this is because of your mantra of due process. If you were always on board with throwing him out of the country legally, and the mistake happened in destination, and due process could have been followed in his ouster by choosing a different destination, then state so.

It's really hard to continue if you're ignoring the evidence. Just say that there was evidence, and you didn't like it. You didn't think it was strong enough. Or whatever. It's too difficult to invalidate justice on one hand, and claim you're pursuing it on the next.

Did you write this with a straight face?

[SAY HER NAME]

Yeah you dont get the issue. Thats fine. I wont waste more time on this. GL

[Edge-]

It's really hard to continue if you're ignoring the evidence. Just say that there was evidence, and you didn't like it. You didn't think it was strong enough. Or whatever. It's too difficult to invalidate justice on one hand, and claim you're pursuing it on the next.

What was that evidence, again?

Was it just the claims of the government and local law enforcement without any actual evidence to support their claims?

Because surely if they had serious evidence of his involvement in MS-13 there's no way he'd have gotten asylum and protected status, I'd imagine. Especially under Donald Trump, who was POTUS in 2019.

So be explicit: What's the evidence I'm ignoring because I don't like it? That he got picked up with a few guys who were members and guilt-by-association is good enough for you?

[Captain N]

Didn't John Oliver do a bit about how we should never trust media reports that start with "Police say...." years ago because it was found out that they lie....like a lot?

[tehdang]

Yeah you dont get the issue. Thats fine. I wont waste more time on this. GL

Well, I hope I explained the issue surrounding due process in this instance. A removable alien ought to have been expelled elsewhere, and the article and others elide over that fact to contest something different. But if you don’t want to pursue it further or acknowledge it, that’s fine. I’m sure there will be plenty of other Trump bad policies and executive department mistakes to hash it out on.

[Edge-]

A removable alien ought to have been expelled elsewhere

Until their asylum application is approved and they're given legal protected status, of course.

I’m sure there will be plenty of other Trump bad policies and executive department mistakes to hash it out on.

And I'm sure you'll be back here defending each one as you have been thus far.