Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

Isn't this like, the 3rd or 4th time they've tried to make some government function twittler-exclusive and had the courts beat their ass for it?

i mean we joked about nationalizing twitter to cut elons losses but it seems like he keeps pushing for that more or less even though he did just sell twitter from himself to himself. at a loss and all. again.

[Breccia]

The government just says ... hey judge ... how about you comply with the supreme court ruling.

As a Trump supporter, saying "people should follow court rulings" is beyond hypocrisy. The most recent example, your party that you support on purpose, is trying to make it so when a judge says "this act by the federal government is unConstitutional" they can reply "yes but you're just a district judge so we're going to keep being unConstitutional anyhow".

Your post is directly against your proven motives, and is therefore handwaved.

[Fugus]

https://www.wired.com/story/social-s...e-elon-musk-x/



Ah yes, because everyone knows retirees are all on Twitter and will look there first for official communications.

This will be challenged in court and the administration will lose.

The administration continues to waste an enormous amount of time accomplishing their objective of doing everything possible to dismantle this country and enrich the uber-wealthy.

If they go that route, it becomes official government communications and subject to a lot more regulations. And if that becomes it only method of public communication then that is that.

[btlcryct]

The administration continues to waste an enormous amount of time accomplishing their objective of doing everything possible to dismantle this country and enrich the uber-wealthy.

I fully expect in 10-20 years tops it's going to come out that DOGE ending up costing taxpayers more money than they actually found in legit fraud, thus being a net-loss for "Government Efficiency" that this is supposed to be. When you factor in everything to what DOGE is being paid, and what all these lawsuits/rework of undoing 90% of the stuff they've done. Not to count non-financial losses such as the experience of people they've fired. They seem to think fired people just sit around waiting to be told to come back, what with their "we fired too many/the wrong people, so we'll just hire them back." Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, so most of them probably went job hunting once they were fired by DOGE. And if I was one of them and already got a new job, I'd tell DOGE to fuck off if they tried to rehire me. Just because who's to say you won't re-fire me in a week??

[Breccia]

I don't know how the Tampa Free Press got this story to be honest, but the statements quoted line up with reality, so for now I'm assuming it's true.

Speaking at a Cabinet meeting on Thursday, Musk presented the revised figure, framing it as a move that would enhance government effectiveness. The $150 billion projection, he stated, will “result in better services for the American people” and ensure federal spending occurs “in a way that is sensible and fair and good.”

“I’m excited to announce we anticipate saving in FY ’26 from a reduction of waste and fraud a reduction of $150 billion dollars,” Musk said. He highlighted specific examples of targeted waste, adding, “And some of it is just absurd, like, people getting unemployment insurance who haven’t been born yet. I mean, I think anyone can appreciate — I mean, come on, that’s just crazy.”

"That doesn't sound like $2 trillion at all."

No. It should sound like 7.5% of $2 trillion. Or, to put it another way, imagine being promised a full refund of a purchase but only getting back the sales tax.

"What changed his mind?"

Reality. The surprise was that he admitted it.

So, if you were waiting for that $5,000 check, somehow under the impression you'd get that check (a) before another tax cut for the rich (b) at all, you can probably stop now. Even the person who made that ridiculous number up out of thin air and whatever South Africans use to get high, is no longer backing that number.

"But $150 billion is still a lot of fraud and waste! Like those unborn people!"

Cite one arrest warrant. You'd think that the people holding the actual government paperwork, saying "This unborn person has been put down filing for benefits that are blatantly illegal" would follow that up with "and we have their name, address, and Social Security number to go with this incontrovertible evidence" would just, you know, get slam-dunk case on the headlines. So name one.

As a reminder, the 2024 federal outlays was $6.8 trillion. $150 billion is 2.2% of that. Remember all those times everyone said fraud/waste was 1-3%? We were all right.

And everyone knew it. Even the people who support Trump. Actually, one more:

I always knew there was not that much fraud and waste in the federal government. I always knew Trump and Musk were lying. I voted for them anyway and pretended to believe them, but I never did.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Hard to tell. Those may factor into the equation also. I think it is mostly that people don't want to go to the US right now. WestJet and Flair cut seasonal flights between Canada and Palm Springs, CA. Booking was supposedly bad. I am sure a lot of Europeans and Chinese are cancelling their trips to the US also.

Booking from Canada to US down 70%. No hard numbers from other countries yet.

I will say that, from my purely anecdotal experience, the people I know, including myself, that have decided to not travel to the US for the foreseeable future made that decision on Tuesday, Nov.5 2024. The tariffs and such have really only had the effect of strengthening that resolve for my people. Our more direct response to the tariffs is just to try and avoid buying any american products.

[SAY HER NAME]

Khalil being deportable was very predictable. The moment I saw that he didnt declare that he worked for UNRWA I knew he was going to be deported.

Elections have consequences. Pro Palestinian people need to beaten with this case until they learn that lesson.

- - - Updated - - -

If he wins on appeal Ill be happy to be wrong as I dont like the outcome of this case but it is what it is.

[Edge-]

I fully expect in 10-20 years tops it's going to come out that DOGE ending up costing taxpayers more money than they actually found in legit fraud, thus being a net-loss for "Government Efficiency" that this is supposed to be. When you factor in everything to what DOGE is being paid, and what all these lawsuits/rework of undoing 90% of the stuff they've done. Not to count non-financial losses such as the experience of people they've fired. They seem to think fired people just sit around waiting to be told to come back, what with their "we fired too many/the wrong people, so we'll just hire them back." Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, so most of them probably went job hunting once they were fired by DOGE. And if I was one of them and already got a new job, I'd tell DOGE to fuck off if they tried to rehire me. Just because who's to say you won't re-fire me in a week??

I fully expect the economic cost/consequences of DOGE and this administration to reach trillions, easily.

[PACOX]

i mean we joked about nationalizing twitter to cut elons losses but it seems like he keeps pushing for that more or less even though he did just sell twitter from himself to himself. at a loss and all. again.

Goes back to a different point someone raised where so of the things being implemented would be good if not by jackasses just looking to line their pockets or doing it in the dumbest ways. Sometimes the only line between left and wing populism is intent.

I believe their should be a nationalized digital communication platform that adheres to certain standards. Radio has/had broadcasting standards where citizens could count on certain things to always be truthful and reliable, also freedoms of expression. There should absolutely be a digital platform where citizens can go to for free, transparent, and reliable information from the government as well as acting as a digital forum between citizens and government. Remember when Trump's Twitter account was held to certain standards during his first term until it was made clear there was no legal obligations that bound him (or Twitter for that matter)? Once upon a time Twitter might have had the potential to be that platform (or a fork or it), definitely isn't it under the current administration.

Tariffs themselves are a tool. They can be good or bad. Someone made the assumption that tariffs are against leftism except they aren't especially when you approach ideas that regulate capitalism. Except Trump's tariffs are at best just market manipulation for people who are already rich and worse, as asinine as they appear.

Government efficiency, you will find left wing voices that call for a more efficient government. But that's through more funding and programs to steer society, build social safety nets, allow the government to not be beholden to the highest biders. Not the right wing "answer" that claims a more "efficient" government is one that barely exists except where it benefits the ruling class.

[tehdang]

The SCOTUS decision(if people want to call it that) stated that the Administration(Government) has to bring back said person. It also said that it would be up to the lower court to decide how that is going to be done with respect to Article 2 powers.

Not in the decision. Facilitate his release. He has no legal right to be in the US, so a return was not ordered.

Roberts didn't grant an administrative stay and caution the judge to show "due regard for the deference owed to the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs" just for the judge to micromanage the executive's conduct of foreign affairs by 9:30am hours after the decision. That's known as blatant disregard of deference. The government was right to point that out.

So no, asking updates on where the person is, to show he is in fact being brought back, is not going against SCOTUS and in fact showing that it is upholding their ruling.

The government asked for a briefing on April 15th, not that no update was ever necessary.

The man wasn't afforded due process. None of these people were afforded due process that have been deported. That is why it is playing out in courts. If they were afforded due process in the first place, meaning they get to see an immigration judge before final deportation orders are sent, very little of this would be playing out as it is. But the government, via Marco Rubio with Trump's blessing, is doing it unilaterally. Which, the last time I checked, goes against basic human rights such as Habeas Corpus and the ability to challenge a decision rendered by a governing body(appealing) until it is adjudicated in a court of law.

If you want to gaslight something, please do it in the White House where the amount of gas being lit would make Exxon blush.

EDIT: Let me change one thing. None of the ones that made the news like Gracia, Khalil, Ozturk and others like that were afforded due process. They had their visas/green cards unilaterally revoked without any hearing in front a judge WHICH IS REQUIRED TO DO SO to prevent someone that is here legally from getting deported for false pretenses.

He was deported to the wrong country, but deportation was always the consequence of due process. Due process was deportation.

How is the judge not complying with the supreme court ruling? The judge amended the use of words and is now using facilitate. The request the judge asked wasn't you need to do these specific things. The questions where:

Demanding updates by 9:30 am on a case that just went back down from the Supreme Court is not deference and it repeats the timing mistake that originally led to the administrative stay.

- Are you doing anything to facilitate his release? This could be something really simple like asking for his return. Mind you Trump and Bukele are meeting this Monday.

- Where is he? How is he doing? The government should know this. Its using tax payer money to contract the Salvadoran government in keeping the people it kidnapped

They are simple questions. The government has had since last week to formulate a plan on how to bring this father back as was established in the court ruling. We are now finding out that they never intended to bring him back despite acknowledging the mistake, not only that but they dont even know where he is or if he is even alive. Questions that the judge asked. These are simple questions

The judge should set an ordinary briefing schedule to allow the government time to negotiate the release. Her contravention from that has put her in conflict with the Supreme Court, and the government just got done arguing that exact point in court and through its motions.

Your entire line of argument requests that the SCOTUS order be amended to read "No deference is necessary, drag those government lawyers in by 9:30am and demand they loop you in on the facilitation." The Supreme Court knows how to write orders telling the government to reply to the district judge within a week, three days, or the next day. You really have to alter the SCOTUS decision to support your side, and you know you just can't do that.

[PACOX]

I will say that, from my purely anecdotal experience, the people I know, including myself, that have decided to not travel to the US for the foreseeable future made that decision on Tuesday, Nov.5 2024. The tariffs and such have really only had the effect of strengthening that resolve for my people. Our more direct response to the tariffs is just to try and avoid buying any american products.

70% means people who are not normally keyed into politics are deciding not to travel, especially politics outside of their own borders. I wonder how it's affected places where going back and forth is frequent like the Detroit - Ontario border.

[Kaleredar]

I fully expect in 10-20 years tops it's going to come out that DOGE ending up costing taxpayers more money than they actually found in legit fraud, thus being a net-loss for "Government Efficiency" that this is supposed to be. When you factor in everything to what DOGE is being paid, and what all these lawsuits/rework of undoing 90% of the stuff they've done. Not to count non-financial losses such as the experience of people they've fired. They seem to think fired people just sit around waiting to be told to come back, what with their "we fired too many/the wrong people, so we'll just hire them back." Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, so most of them probably went job hunting once they were fired by DOGE. And if I was one of them and already got a new job, I'd tell DOGE to fuck off if they tried to rehire me. Just because who's to say you won't re-fire me in a week??

I expect that revelation that it’s cost vastly more money than it’s saved to come out in the next… few months, honestly.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

He was deported to the wrong country, but deportation was always the consequence of due process. Due process was deportation.

The Government admitted that the deportation was "an administrative error". So, no. Due process was notdeportation. Deportation was, again according to the government, a fuck up on their part.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

The government has conceded Mr Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", though it also alleges he is a member of the MS-13 gang, which his lawyer denies

.

[Edge-]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-flo...bP4NMlwtUaS13-

hey

do you want to know something really fucking stupid?

apparently donald is vaguely discussing a plans to bring back illegal immigrants

after spending enormous amounts of money to deport them

because they may be needed to work farms and hospitality and stuff

do you think that maybe a pathway to citizenship might have been a less expensive and cruel approach to accomplishing the same outcome? or literally anything else?

anyways it's funny that now donald and republicans are realizing "oops maybe we need a lot of those people doing the jobs that native born americans won't do"

the bracero program making a comeback, baby! innovation!

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

70% means people who are not normally keyed into politics are deciding not to travel, especially politics outside of their own borders. I wonder how it's affected places where going back and forth is frequent like the Detroit - Ontario border.

I'm just saying that, in my circle, it wasn't the tariffs that drove them to the decision not to travel to the US for at least the next 4 years... it was Trump being elected in the first place. The tariffs may have caused others to cancel any plans to vacation in the US...but for many others...that decision had already been made.

[Draco-Onis]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-flo...bP4NMlwtUaS13-

hey

do you want to know something really fucking stupid?

apparently donald is vaguely discussing a plans to bring back illegal immigrants

after spending enormous amounts of money to deport them

because they may be needed to work farms and hospitality and stuff

do you think that maybe a pathway to citizenship might have been a less expensive and cruel approach to accomplishing the same outcome? or literally anything else?

anyways it's funny that now donald and republicans are realizing "oops maybe we need a lot of those people doing the jobs that native born americans won't do"

the bracero program making a comeback, baby! innovation!

You know the amount of stupid is just headache inducing sometimes, Trump pulled the same stunt he did now on a smaller scale with temporary work visas for the fishing industry. He almost completely collapsed the entire industry and had to backtrack really fast, he saw this abysmal failure and decided to repeat it nationwide /facepalm.

[tehdang]

The Government admitted that the deportation was "an administrative error".

Destination was the error. He was deportable and should have been deported to a country other than El Salvador. I regret to inform you that he was denied his asylum claim.

If you're going to scream about due process, you ought to know that everything went according to due process except for the destination. If you can't acknowledge that, then maybe you have a problem with due process.

[postman1782]

Destination was the error. He was deportable and should have been deported to a country other than El Salvador. I regret to inform you that he was denied his asylum claim.

If you're going to scream about due process, you ought to know that everything went according to due process except for the destination. If you can't acknowledge that, then maybe you have a problem with due process.

No, he wasn't.

[SAY HER NAME]

Not in the decision. Facilitate his release. He has no legal right to be in the US, so a return was not ordered.

Roberts didn't grant an administrative stay and caution the judge to show "due regard for the deference owed to the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs" just for the judge to micromanage the executive's conduct of foreign affairs by 9:30am hours after the decision. That's known as blatant disregard of deference. The government was right to point that out.

The government asked for a briefing on April 15th, not that no update was ever necessary.

He was deported to the wrong country, but deportation was always the consequence of due process. Due process was deportation.

Demanding updates by 9:30 am on a case that just went back down from the Supreme Court is not deference and it repeats the timing mistake that originally led to the administrative stay.

The judge should set an ordinary briefing schedule to allow the government time to negotiate the release. Her contravention from that has put her in conflict with the Supreme Court, and the government just got done arguing that exact point in court and through its motions.

Your entire line of argument requests that the SCOTUS order be amended to read "No deference is necessary, drag those government lawyers in by 9:30am and demand they loop you in on the facilitation." The Supreme Court knows how to write orders telling the government to reply to the district judge within a week, three days, or the next day. You really have to alter the SCOTUS decision to support your side, and you know you just can't do that.

You keep making arguments the government has not made. The judge didnt order the Trump admin to do specific things for the facilitation, it ordered the Trump admin to answer the questions. If they took no steps and are just starting now they should have said that. That is the issue here and what you refuse to understand for some reason. It refused to answer the questions regarding on the status of this father of a disabled child married to a us citizen. WRT where is he and how is he, he also refused to answer the question and dodged it by claiming that he himself wasnt informed

There are no timing issues here, the government had a week to advance on these issues and if they really took zero steps they should have simply answered honestly. It refused to do either.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Destination was the error. He was deportable and should have been deported to a country other than El Salvador. I regret to inform you that he was denied his asylum claim.

If you're going to scream about due process, you ought to know that everything went according to due process except for the destination. If you can't acknowledge that, then maybe you have a problem with due process.

Well, you just admitted it yourself. He did not receive due process.

His asylum request was denied, yes...but he was granted protection from being deported to El Salvador. By deporting him to El Salvador...he was not given due process.

If you can't aknoweldge that, then you are the one that has a problem with due process.