Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[SAY HER NAME]

Kamala didn’t lose because of <insert issue you are fixated on>. She lost because the democrats didn’t hold a primary, Biden was an optics disaster, and their attacks against Trump were weak.

???

Kamala lost bc she didnt get the votes. Each person for various reasons they have on their own (including Palestinian activism) decided not to vote for her conciously and decided they were ok with the message Trump was pushing.

Why are we treating voters like children lol? They are adults, they absorbed the information out there and decided that they wanted Trump or were ok with him

[Endus]

Kamala didn’t lose because of <insert issue you are fixated on>. She lost because the democrats didn’t hold a primary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_D...tial_primaries

Not only did they hold a primary race for the Presidential role with Biden winning, they held a roll call nomination where Harris won north of 97% of the delegates when Biden pulled out. The other candidates present split less than half the remaining percentage, with the rest being abstentions.

This idea that the Democrats didn't hold primaries is just a false claim. I don't know why it keeps cropping up.

Do I think either were good choices on the part of the delegates, in hindsight? No. Blame the delegates in those nomination procedures. They both resoundingly won.

[NineSpine]

???

Kamala lost bc she didnt get the votes. Each person for various reasons they have on their own (including Palestinian activism) decided not to vote for her conciously and decided they were ok with the message Trump was pushing.

Why are we treating voters like children lol? They are adults, they absorbed the information out there and decided that they wanted Trump or were ok with him

"They absorbed the information" - No, they didn't. The average voter has no idea what is going on. Politics is not about an erudite debate over substantive policy. It's about optics and messaging. The Democratic Party looked like they hid that the President was senile, rammed in a candidate without an election, and then tried to distract everyone by screaming "FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM".

The fact that Biden wasn't senile, and the fact that it was reasonable to appoint Kamala at that juncture, and the fact that Trump is a fascist are immaterial to the actual politics of the situation. It was bad, ineffective messaging and horrible optics.

- - - Updated - - -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_D...tial_primaries

Not only did they hold a primary race for the Presidential role with Biden winning, they held a roll call nomination where Harris won north of 97% of the delegates when Biden pulled out. The other candidates present split less than half the remaining percentage, with the rest being abstentions.

This idea that the Democrats didn't hold primaries is just a false claim. I don't know why it keeps cropping up.

Do I think either were good choices on the part of the delegates, in hindsight? No. Blame the delegates in those nomination procedures. They both resoundingly won.

The Democratic Primary was about as substantive as a Russian election. Don't insult our intelligence.

- - - Updated - - -

No. Democrats should have won even if they put up a rutabaga as a candidate against Trump.

Kamala lost because enough voters were too stupid to vote against the blatantly obvious evil slouching right in front of them.

Whose job was it to get those people to vote for Kamala? I'll give you one guess.

[PhaelixWW]

Whose job was it to get those people to vote for Kamala? I'll give you one guess.

"Whose job was it to get the voters to choose to swallow slightly moldy bread instead of literal dog shit? I'll give you one guess."

[NineSpine]

"Whose job was it to get the voters to choose to swallow slightly moldy bread instead of literal dog shit? I'll give you one guess."

Sorry, let me add one more reason to my list of why democrats lost: Entitlement.

[SAY HER NAME]

"They absorbed the information" - No, they didn't. The average voter has no idea what is going on. Politics is not about an erudite debate over substantive policy. It's about optics and messaging. The Democratic Party looked like they hid that the President was senile, rammed in a candidate without an election, and then tried to distract everyone by screaming "FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM FASCISM".

The fact that Biden wasn't senile, and the fact that it was reasonable to appoint Kamala at that juncture, and the fact that Trump is a fascist are immaterial to the actual politics of the situation. It was bad, ineffective messaging and horrible optics.

And they were literally right. Literally everything Kamala predicted about Donald Trump has come true, in fact it might have been too optimistic lol

Like I am sorry I am tired of pretending voters are children. They are adults and should be treated as such. You are an average voter too as I am. If Bernie AOC Jill Stein combine into one super commie candidate next election, I will vote for it bc I don't want fascism. Even if that candidate's ideas repulse me.

[NineSpine]

And they were literally right. Literally everything Kamala predicted about Donald Trump has come true, in fact it might have been too optimistic lol

Like I am sorry I am tired of pretending voters are children. They are adults and should be treated as such. You are an average voter too as I am. If Bernie AOC Jill Stein mecha combines into a super commie candidate next election I will vote for it bc I dont want fascism. Even if that candidates ideas repulses me.

And how much did all that being right do to stop Trump from being elected? The job was to beat Trump, not to be “right” about him.

You seem much more concerned with your sense of superiority than with beating fascism, and that attitude is typically present whenever fascism wins.

[PhaelixWW]

Sorry, let me add one more reason to my list of why democrats lost: Entitlement.

Nah, see, "entitlement" is only a thing if Kamala treated potential voters worse than Trump did, expecting them to ignore it and vote for her anyway.

But that's not what happened.

[Kaleredar]

Harris didn’t control the messaging about the economy. That is why she failed.

Voters are learning very rapidly that Trump isn’t exactly as advertised. They probably should have looked up tariffs before they voted for him.

[NineSpine]

Nah, see, "entitlement" is only a thing if Kamala treated potential voters worse than Trump did, expecting them to ignore it and vote for her anyway.

But that's not what happened.

They gaslit voters about Biden’s mental state. While I don’t personally think he is senile, he clearly wasn’t up to the job.

- - - Updated - - -

Harris didn’t control the messaging about the economy. That is why she failed.

Voters are learning very rapidly that Trump isn’t exactly as advertised. They probably should have looked up tariffs before they voted for him.

She was afraid to say “these few years have been hard but our policies got us out of the post-Covid disaster that Trump left us”. They thought admitting that Biden’s term had been hard was an admission of failure, so they’d only reference it in vague ways.

[PhaelixWW]

They gaslit voters about Biden’s mental state. While I don’t personally think he is senile, he clearly wasn’t up to the job.

And Trump is? And Kamala wasn't? You know, since Biden wasn't on the ballot.

What a fucking joke.

[NineSpine]

And Trump is? And Kamala wasn't? You know, since Biden wasn't on the ballot.

What a fucking joke.

Kamala had to carry the baggage of that disaster, and she engaged in the gaslighting.

You don’t win elections by running a bad campaign and then saying “but the other guy is worse”.

[SAY HER NAME]

And how much did all that being right do to stop Trump from being elected? The job was to beat Trump, not to be “right” about him.

You seem much more concerned with your sense of superiority than with beating fascism, and that attitude is typically present whenever fascism wins.

"You didnt do a good enough job warning me about the fascist so I decided to enable it and its not my fault at all that they decided to start doing terrible things"

I stg you think voters are idiots with no agency lol

[Fugus]

From 2016 to this day, people are still trying to blame the voters instead of the politicians….

Short of a 20 year stint with a progressive version of Fox that is capable of twisting and controlling the narrative as effectively as they did you won’t have them change and even if you do, it will take a decade or more to pay dividends on that.

So, you aren’t going to change the voters in an election so stop blaming them for something that you won’t change on the large scale.

Who else knows this? The politicians. And they can change themselves and their messaging to reach those voters. When they fail to do that, that’s on them, not the voters.

The USA isn’t a nation where only the educated and politically informed can vote and so you are going to going to have a lot of uninformed and uneducated people voting because of messaging and sports team mentality. That’s not the ideal, but it’s what we have.

Blaming the voters at this point is just begging to have this repeating after he is gone sooner rather than later because while the democrats are pretending the people have learned their lesson the republicans will have tailored their messaging to reach more people as they do a messaging campaign to blame Trumps replacement for all the problems that he caused without any real pushback from the democrats on that message….

[NineSpine]

"You didnt do a good enough job warning me about the fascist so I decided to enable it and its not my fault at all that they decided to start doing terrible things"

I stg you think voters are idiots with no agency lol

Idiots vote. I want to win. You want to feel smug.

[Mayhem]

Voting has no consequences is an analysis I hope we can all move from

Well then, go on and explain what winning Michigan would've changed. Nothing? Oh, of course it would've changed to have an easy target because making minorities responsible for the shit that happens in the US comes natural to you.

[NineSpine]

Well then, go on and explain what winning Michigan would've changed. Nothing? Oh, of course it would've changed to have an easy target because making minorities responsible for the shit that happens in the US comes natural to you.

Literally every state shifted red and they think this was a single issue loss.

[Xath]

Harris was a bad pick but it's still on the lunatics who voted for someone who tried to use fake electors to take over the government and have now given him another chance to go for dictator for life.

[SAY HER NAME]

Idiots vote. I want to win. You want to feel smug.

When I say idiots with no agency I don't mean stupid or anything like that. I mean that people are capable of agency and being able to look around and make decisions based on the info around them. Your argument seems to be that people don't have agency and will literally do anything as long as the person telling them is charming enough. In your world there is no free will bc voters only respond to the actions of other people, they have no initiative of their own.

And cuz it seems necessary to add, I am not a democratic staffer or work for the DNC lol. I am just a random person on the internet as I assume most people here are. Unless you do work for the DNC or a major political party. So my comments arent meant to recruit people. They are just comments I am making. But I do hope the people I referred to feel guilty enough to not make the same mistake.

[Fugus]

Harris was a bad pick but it's still on the lunatics who voted for someone who tried to use fake electors to take over the government and have now given him another chance to go for dictator for life.

Agreed, blame those who actively voted for this. But can’t blame too many of those who chose not to vote due to the fact that they aren’t politically knowledgeable and the politicians failed at messaging and let republicans control the narrative the whole way down.