Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[NineSpine]

Just going on a tangent, since might help someone. YES, your mother is feeding the algorithm. The algorithm is built upon what you watch daily, the day you decide to clean browser and cookie history, there is a brand new world out there to see. Do it yourself, clean her history and put like on other videos. I do it 4 times per years and I don't a single political hit on my browser, youtube and/or social media. Detox it.

Each one's algorithm is one's fault.

Oh, my sweet summer child. Do you think the algorithms are mainly powered by local browser data?

The algorithms are primarily driven by remotely stored data you can't wipe. They often even incorporate your IP address and location. If I open my youtube account on my work VPN, I suddenly start getting a shitload of Indian videos recommended, because half my coworkers are Indian and that's what they are watching. If I go to my parents' house and Google anything political on my personal laptop, right-wing sources will be the top recommendations.

The irony here is that the algorithms have crafted you such a bubble that it has even convinced you that you aren't in a bubble, and it's worked so well that you are here telling us how you are bypassing the algorithm by clearing cookies. Buddy, they don't give a fuck about your cookies. And then you come here and criticize other people for being in a bubble.

[NED funded]

I think there is something to be said about manufacturing pushing innovation and having good effects independent of labour (since most of it is automated)

That being said, the Trump admin is schizophrenic in its policy and you literally have no reason to do well anything until the government can figure out what it actually wants to do.

[NineSpine]

Are you still going on? Yes, your mom is retarded and apparently it's hereditary. Congrats. I don't see how your ability or inability to change channels between Fox News, Daily Wire, Info Wars and Zero Hedge is our problem.

I think it is your problem because Trump is president.

There's already a thread about the market situation. If you are going to whine about staying on topic, start with yourself.

[Veggie50]

Maybe, but I feel the overt maliciousness of this Administration turns the phrase on its head.

Why assume a mistake when the malice is so clear?

Hanlons razor

Trumps not competent enough to be this malicious.

[NED funded]

For many of the same reasons the Court should deny the expedited discovery
requested by Plaintiffs. This discovery, including the presentation of live witnesses,
would probe the Executive’s preliminary thinking on diplomatic efforts, and would go
well beyond requiring the Executive to reveal “what it can” about the status of this
process. Order at 2. That request is particularly inappropriate given that such
discovery could interfere with ongoing diplomatic discussions—particularly in the
context of President Bukele’s ongoing trip to the United States.
In addition, Plaintiffs’ request for “documents . . . reflect[ing] the terms of any
agreement, arrangement or understanding regarding the Government’s use of
5
CECOT to house U.S. deportees,” ECF 62 at 4, calls for the immediate production of
classified documents, as well as documents that Defendants may elect to assert are
subject to the protections of attorney-client privilege and the State Secrets privilege.
It would be inappropriate for this Court to hastily order production of these sensitive
documents, particularly where Defendants are continuing to regularly update the
Court here.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...78815.65.0.pdf

I just realized that the politico article doesnt mention that the government isnt willing to present people that have direct knowledge of the status of the Maryland Father. It is important to remember that every single argument the government is making here can easily be applied to US citizens. The government is essentially arguing that it can ship american citizens to foreign gulags and literally do nothing to fix the issue, not even make sure they are alive.

[NineSpine]

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...78815.65.0.pdf

I just realized that the politico article doesnt mention that the government isnt willing to present people that have direct knowledge of the status of the Maryland Father. It is important to remember that every single argument the government is making here can easily be applied to US citizens. The government is essentially arguing that it can ship american citizens to foreign gulags and literally do nothing to fix the issue, not even make sure they are alive.

Trump has an incredibly friendly Supreme Court, and he is going to burn that relationship down to avoid admitting a mistake.

[NED funded]

Trump has an incredibly friendly Supreme Court, and he is going to burn that relationship down to avoid admitting a mistake.

When it first happened I used to think it was a mistake. Like mistaken deportations happen and the gov fixes that. The lengths this administration is going through and the sort of arguments they are pushing makes me think this is intentional. They want the ability to skip the judicial process to deport anyone they want. Do I think they want to deport American citizens? Not right NOW. But they are deffo thinking itll be a useful tool to have later on.

[Fugus]

Trump has an incredibly friendly Supreme Court, and he is going to burn that relationship down to avoid admitting a mistake.

Who says he is making a mistake if he is trying to set a precedent and normalize this stuff?

If he can set this than he can start deporting all those people who badmouth him on TV and in the papers and all that. And he can deport them to places that torture and execute them. What makes you think this is r what he is going for? This is the guy who tried to get the cops to shoot protestors with live ammo his last time in office.

Add on that the chance that this guy is dead and exposing that could derail much of what he is trying to setup.

[Belize]

Is the old new tactic "what about Biden?"


Anyway:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/...ion-rcna201118

Yeah, this isn't an accident.

It's a trial run/warning shot to see how everyone reacts.

[Endus]

You can't seriously think that. You can't treat everyone as having equal knowledge and understanding of what is going on in the world. Also how do you explain the laws and regulations against these practices if it's 100% the fault of the ones being grifted? If it's entirely your choice, how the fuck do you press charges or sue for damages, it was your choice to receive that damage after all?

I can check five news stations and two dozen websites and never leave the right-wing media sphere. Again, you keep acting like the right-wing media sphere is two guys on YouTube named "THE BIG LIARS CHANNEL WHERE WE MAKE SHIT UP". It's no different than the fact that I can check a dozen left-of-center news sources and never find out that the FBI was found to have made over a dozen ridiculous errors and omissions in its FISA warrant applications to spy on Trump campaign officials. Do you think the average Democrat knows that? Fuck no they don't.

Again, to the both of you;

Pretty much everyone has the same access to public information. Sure, there's going to be some exceptions at the very fringes, with homeless people and the like, but if you have Internet access, you meet this bar (and we're talking exclusively about the USA, here).

If you can't be bothered to access that to inform yourself, or you choose to stick entirely to a set of comforting echo chambers that reinforce your prejudices, that's a choice. There's intent behind it. And you can and should be judged negatively for making that choice. Because you're responsible for that decision you made.

I don't know why you two in particular keep insisting that the media is mind-control and removes individual agency from its viewers.

Nor is my position specific to right-wingers. I condemn a lot of apathetic left-wingers who stayed home because they were completely fine with a Trump Presidency, too, for the same reasons.

The notion that you're responsible for the choices you make is a pretty simple maxim.

[NED funded]

And there it is.

Stephen Miller from the Trump admin saying that he wasn't accidentally deported

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1911773414139871257

Mind you that ICE and the DHS says he was accidentally deported. I have long suspected that ICE intentionally deported him and the DHS is willing to take flak for it cuz it can simply argue it was a mistake.

[NineSpine]

Again, to the both of you;

Pretty much everyone has the same access to public information. Sure, there's going to be some exceptions at the very fringes, with homeless people and the like, but if you have Internet access, you meet this bar (and we're talking exclusively about the USA, here).

If you can't be bothered to access that to inform yourself, or you choose to stick entirely to a set of comforting echo chambers that reinforce your prejudices, that's a choice. There's intent behind it. And you can and should be judged negatively for making that choice. Because you're responsible for that decision you made.

I don't know why you two in particular keep insisting that the media is mind-control and removes individual agency from its viewers.

Nor is my position specific to right-wingers. I condemn a lot of apathetic left-wingers who stayed home because they were completely fine with a Trump Presidency, too, for the same reasons.

The notion that you're responsible for the choices you make is a pretty simple maxim.

You are demanding an extremely advanced level of media literacy from the average person. It's incredibly condescending and elitist, but more importantly impractical and unreasonable. You keep assuming that everyone just magically knows what sources are not reliable. How do they know that? What is the mechanism they are supposed to acquire this knowledge through? Google it? Their Google results are curated to reinforce their views.

[gondrin]

When it first happened I used to think it was a mistake. Like mistaken deportations happen and the gov fixes that. The lengths this administration is going through and the sort of arguments they are pushing makes me think this is intentional. They want the ability to skip the judicial process to deport anyone they want. Do I think they want to deport American citizens? Not right NOW. But they are deffo thinking itll be a useful tool to have later on.

It wasn't a mistake even if the attorney stated as such in a court of law. Sure, the attorney claimed it was but, as we can see from the actions of the actual administration officials, they are doing everything they possibly can to rebuke or outright refuse court orders. Oh, BTW, that attorney was fired along with their supervisor. Why?

Because they told the truth in a court of law. And their supervisor was dismissed for not actually directly controlling their subordinate.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...2d393d05&ei=14

Earlier this month, the department placed Erez Reuveni, the acting deputy director of the department’s immigration litigation division, on indefinite leave. The letter from Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, which The New York Times obtained, said it was for failing to “follow a directive from your superiors” and “engaging in conduct prejudicial to your client.” The department confirmed his suspension to NBC News in a statement from Bondi, in which she stated, “At my direction, every Department of Justice attorney is required to zealously advocate on behalf of the United States. Any attorney who fails to abide by this direction will face consequences.”

But the only thing that Reuveni, who had only been promoted to his role recently, had done to earn this punishment was to tell the truth in court. Reuveni found himself unable to give U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis a reason why the administration had deported a Maryland resident, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, to El Salvador despite his being legally in the country. Reuveni admitted to Xinis that Abrego Garcia “should not have been removed,” adding that he was “also frustrated that I also have no answers for you on a lot of these questions.” (The Times also reported that another lawyer working on the Abrego Garcia case, August Flentje, was placed on administrative leave for failing “to supervise a subordinate.”)

So, this is literally on purpose to see how far they can actually go. Trump has stated that he doesn't want due process for anyone they want to deport. And any attorney, actively speaking for the administration, if they don't actually lie or outright ignore the court themselves, will find themselves fired.

If I were in those attorney's shoes, I would absolutely get myself fired because it is a far better thing than to basically lie for a bunch of sycophants.

[Mayhem]

just repeating the same stuff

Pointless to continue with this if you keep ignoring the stuff people say. It's fine, you don't want to accept the reality, it's a choice you make.

[Timester]

Oh, my sweet summer child. Do you think the algorithms are mainly powered by local browser data?

The algorithms are primarily driven by remotely stored data you can't wipe. They often even incorporate your IP address and location. If I open my youtube account on my work VPN, I suddenly start getting a shitload of Indian videos recommended, because half my coworkers are Indian and that's what they are watching. If I go to my parents' house and Google anything political on my personal laptop, right-wing sources will be the top recommendations.

The irony here is that the algorithms have crafted you such a bubble that it has even convinced you that you aren't in a bubble, and it's worked so well that you are here telling us how you are bypassing the algorithm by clearing cookies. Buddy, they don't give a fuck about your cookies. And then you come here and criticize other people for being in a bubble.

Then you clearly have no idea how it works. None whatsoever. Algorithms only shows what you consumes.

Click on what YOU want to see, clear what YOU don't want to see, have that thing call "FREE WILL" and don't click at all. Read a book, touch grass, detox from the internet.

Don't blame the others for your lack of free will. Don't blame the echo chamber if you choose to enter it. I don't go to a catholic church yell that it's full of catholics.

You are demanding an extremely advanced level of media literacy from the average person. It's incredibly condescending and elitist, but more importantly impractical and unreasonable. You keep assuming that everyone just magically knows what sources are not reliable. How do they know that? What is the mechanism they are supposed to acquire this knowledge through? Google it? Their Google results are curated to reinforce their views.

Illiterate people don't even go to the internet to consume "news". No one is forcing you to follow the clickbait.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, to the both of you;

Pretty much everyone has the same access to public information. Sure, there's going to be some exceptions at the very fringes, with homeless people and the like, but if you have Internet access, you meet this bar (and we're talking exclusively about the USA, here).

If you can't be bothered to access that to inform yourself, or you choose to stick entirely to a set of comforting echo chambers that reinforce your prejudices, that's a choice. There's intent behind it. And you can and should be judged negatively for making that choice. Because you're responsible for that decision you made.

I don't know why you two in particular keep insisting that the media is mind-control and removes individual agency from its viewers.

Nor is my position specific to right-wingers. I condemn a lot of apathetic left-wingers who stayed home because they were completely fine with a Trump Presidency, too, for the same reasons.

The notion that you're responsible for the choices you make is a pretty simple maxim.

It's the same old "I didn't vote, so isn't my fault" mantra, with other semantics.

People choose every single second of their lifes, even breathing is a choice, and yet, somehow, "DA INTERWEBS" takes human agency. No wonder Trump won, human race is becoming lazy.

[Edge-]

Is the old new tactic "what about Biden?"


Anyway:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/...ion-rcna201118

inching closer and closer to arresting and deporting US citizens to foreign countries for wrongthink

[Twdft]

"The little man behind the screen told me to" doesn't work to get you out of a speeding ticket. Why people think it absolves them of the responsibility of how they did cast their vote in an election is beyond me. Seems like wife beater logic "look what you made me do". The party of personal responsibility not able to recognize personal responsibility sure is a sight to behold.

Also I made the mistake of clicking that Steffen Müller Stephen Miller video... I almost threw up a little what a vile person.

[Gorsameth]

When it first happened I used to think it was a mistake. Like mistaken deportations happen and the gov fixes that. The lengths this administration is going through and the sort of arguments they are pushing makes me think this is intentional. They want the ability to skip the judicial process to deport anyone they want. Do I think they want to deport American citizens? Not right NOW. But they are deffo thinking itll be a useful tool to have later on.

A Reminder that Trump has previously said the Government should take everyone's guns away and worry about making it legal after the fact.

This is no different from his opinion there. Court takes so long, better just deport people first and worry about courts later (or not at all).

[NineSpine]

Then you clearly have no idea how it works. None whatsoever. Algorithms only shows what you consumes.

Click on what YOU want to see, clear what YOU don't want to see, have that thing call "FREE WILL" and don't click at all. Read a book, touch grass, detox from the internet.

Don't blame the others for your lack of free will. Don't blame the echo chamber if you choose to enter it. I don't go to a catholic church yell that it's full of catholics.

Illiterate people don't even go to the internet to consume "news". No one is forcing you to follow the clickbait.

I'm really not taking a lecture on how content recommendation algorithms work from someone that thinks that if you clear your cookies they reset. What you said is embarassing.

The algorithms generate echo chambers. That's how they work. That's what they exist to do: Filter to you the content you are likely to engage with. You can only get around them by always using VPNs, always browsing in incognito mode, and deleting your accounts for any of these services periodically. Expecting the average person to know that they have do that is absolutely deranged.

Nobody "enters" these echo chambers. The echo chambers are built around them. What you are demanding is that everyone be cognizant that this is happening, take technically complex steps to avoid it, and have a graduate level understanding of media literacy to detect when they fail to prevent it. It's laughable elitist garbage.

- - - Updated - - -

"The little man behind the screen told me to" doesn't work to get you out of a speeding ticket. Why people think it absolves them of the responsibility of how they did cast their vote in an election is beyond me. Seems like wife beater logic "look what you made me do". The party of personal responsibility not able to recognize personal responsibility sure is a sight to behold.

Also I made the mistake of clicking that Steffen Müller Stephen Miller video... I almost threw up a little what a vile person.

Appealing to personal responsibility to address systemic, collective issues is exactly the kind of braindead reactionary garbage that we criticize Republicans for.

We have a serious problem with how information is created, disseminated, and consumed. Finger wagging at people to fix that is absolutely no different than finger wagging at the black community to fix crime, or finger wagging at immigrants to just follow the immigration laws. When Republicans do this, I have absolutely no doubt that you find it absurd and ridiculous.

[Timester]

I'm really not taking a lecture on how content recommendation algorithms work from someone that thinks that if you clear your cookies they reset. What you said is embarassing.

Yes, you can clear them, it's by law in the EU. And it works, I only see what I want and remove anything I don't want.

The algorithms generate echo chambers. That's how they work. That's what they exist to do: Filter to you the content you are likely to engage with. You can only get around them by always using VPNs, always browsing in incognito mode, and deleting your accounts for any of these services periodically. Expecting the average person to know that they have do that is absolutely deranged.

No, humans create echo chambers.

Nobody "enters" these echo chambers. The echo chambers are built around them. What you are demanding is that everyone be cognizant that this is happening, take technically complex steps to avoid it, and have a graduate level understanding of media literacy to detect when they fail to prevent it. It's laughable elitist garbage.

Yes, humans do enter echo chambers, all the times. And then leave them, all the times.

Stop taking human agency from each and every single choice you make. Even breathing is a choice, you choose every single time in every single moment of your life. If you thinking "DA INTERWEB" is mind controlling you, then just don't use it. Simple, human agency, human choice.

Grass is good. Talking with flesh people is good. It's a concept that I gladly teach to my students every single day.



"Look what you made me do" is an awful type of defense.