Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

You: "when will democrats stop republicans from hurting themselves?"
Me: "Well democrats..."
you: "WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DEMOCRATS?!?!?!?!?!??!?!"

i thought it was pretty clearly a sarcastic/rhetorical question given the whole setup of the post and not a serious question looking to discuss democrats in this thread. if it wasn't clear, that was my intent for that post.

anyways, i'm still amused at how our MASCULINE PENTAGON now has a makeup room for the boys so they can look good on TV.

[NineSpine]

Holy shit, no one cares. The Democrats have nothing to do with this.

Sorry, I keep forgetting this is the "bitch and whine about Trump" thread, where implying people should actually... you know... do something about him, is verboten. Hard to believe we lost the election with such a can-do attitude.

[postman1782]

Sorry, I keep forgetting this is the "bitch and whine about Trump" thread, where implying people should actually... you know... do something about him, is verboten. Hard to believe we lost the election with such a can-do attitude.

Tell me, what can we do short of a coup de tat, to stop what he's doing?

[NineSpine]

Tell me, what can we do short of a coup de tat, to stop what he's doing?

What a winning message! We will surely take the legislature in the midterms with such an inspiring vision.

Democrats 2026: "What do you want me to do about it?"

This is like being a member of the Washington Generals fan club.

[Moralgy]

Republicans have total control of the government, what can they do at this moment to help. Midterms are still 2 years away.

(ill give you a hint, they are already doing the 1 thing they can do right as we argue about this pointless thing rofl.)

[NineSpine]

Republicans have total control of the government, what can they do at this moment to help. Midterms are still 2 years away.

They can enact a national political strategy. They can call for mass action. They can engage in civil disobedience. There are a lot of things they can do. They aren't going to win the midterms or damage Trump's political capital by sitting on their hands for a year and a half.

- - - Updated - - -

(ill give you a hint, they are already doing the 1 thing they can do right as we argue about this pointless thing rofl.)

Stumble around incoherently changing the subject every time Trump does something else, making excuses?

[Kaleredar]

They can enact a national political strategy. They can call for mass action. They can engage in civil disobedience. There are a lot of things they can do. They aren't going to win the midterms or damage Trump's political capital by sitting on their hands for a year and a half.l

Are you doing any of those things, regardless of whether the democrats at large “ordain” it?

[Rasulis]

The trend is clear.

FEMA denies assistance to 8 Kentucky counties impacted by flooding, governor says

[Xath]

What a winning message! We will surely take the legislature in the midterms with such an inspiring vision.

Democrats 2026: "What do you want me to do about it?"

This is like being a member of the Washington Generals fan club.

We are 100 days in there is going to be a civil war before 2026

[Azadina]

Sorry, I keep forgetting this is the "bitch and whine about Trump" thread, where implying people should actually... you know... do something about him, is verboten. Hard to believe we lost the election with such a can-do attitude.

If you want to JFK him, go ahead. Short of that though, what are people supposed to do about him? Get together and start sending telepathic messages to him, to get him to stop being the asshole he always was?

[Endus]

They can enact a national political strategy.

You mean other than their current national political strategy?

Like, I agree that it's not particularly effective, but they've checked this box.

They can call for mass action.

Many of them have. Bernie and AOC are out stumping for it as we speak, among others.

Also, what "mass action" are you expecting? Because anything short of dragging politicos from their homes and guillotining them is still just gonna be "talking about stuff".

They can engage in civil disobedience.

I'm not sure that's as effective at their level as you think. There's not a lot they can actually do. That's more a population-level approach.

I'll also note "civil disobedience" requires putting yourself in positions where you tell violent pig cops to go fuck themselves and pray you don't get beaten half to death or shot outright, and potentially arrested and sent to El Salvador before any charges can get filed. It's not without serious personal risk, especially when it's not everyone. The only way it really works out is if it's enough of the populace that the cops think twice about overstepping, because the mob will fucking murder them all.

I'm sure you, personally, are out there throwing monkey wrenches into the machinery of government, personally, right? Or are you doing fuck-all and hoping others will take the risks for you?

There are a lot of things they can do. They aren't going to win the midterms or damage Trump's political capital by sitting on their hands for a year and a half.

Worked for Trump, to be blunt.

[Moralgy]

They can enact a national political strategy. They can call for mass action. They can engage in civil disobedience. There are a lot of things they can do. They aren't going to win the midterms or damage Trump's political capital by sitting on their hands for a year and a half.

- - - Updated - - -



Stumble around incoherently changing the subject every time Trump does something else, making excuses?

They are fighting him in the courts everytime trump does something unconstitutional, ya know, the one thing that can actually be done to help Americans right now. That is the current national strategy to combat republicans who have total control of the government at this moment.

Civil disobedience that you just listed is absolutely useless to *stop* anything awful being done and can lead to a negative result for elections going forward regarding moderates. A call for mass action to do what? This really just feels like the "resistance" movement from 2016 that just wanted to DO SOMETHING but in reality just did nothing but virtue signal about how much of a better democrat they are than the rest.

[NineSpine]

You mean other than their current national political strategy?

Like, I agree that it's not particularly effective, but they've checked this box.

They have sort of rallied around the deportations, but I'd hardly call any of this a national political strategy.

Many of them have. Bernie and AOC are out stumping for it as we speak, among others.

Also, what "mass action" are you expecting? Because anything short of dragging politicos from their homes and guillotining them is still just gonna be "talking about stuff".

Sanders isn't a Democrat, but I agree that there are specific people doing specific things, and I think Sanders and AOC have the right idea.

They can call for a general strike. They can call for people to take to the streets.

I'm not sure that's as effective at their level as you think. There's not a lot they can actually do. That's more a population-level approach.

Ghandi was the leader of a political party.

I'll also note "civil disobedience" requires putting yourself in positions where you tell violent pig cops to go fuck themselves and pray you don't get beaten half to death or shot outright, and potentially arrested and sent to El Salvador before any charges can get filed. It's not without serious personal risk, especially when it's not everyone. The only way it really works out is if it's enough of the populace that the cops think twice about overstepping, because the mob will fucking murder them all.

That famous MLK quote: "Go fuck yourself, pig!"

I'm sure you, personally, are out there throwing monkey wrenches into the machinery of government, personally, right? Or are you doing fuck-all and hoping others will take the risks for you?

I don't think there is anything I can respond to this with that you won't dismiss as performative. I have been arrested more than a couple of times at protests. I was there when Zuccotti was torn down. I got punched in the face by a Proud Boy douchebag once in Portland. I'm not sure what you actually want from me.

Worked for Trump, to be blunt.

The conservative movement was not sitting on its hands.

- - - Updated - - -

If you want to JFK him, go ahead. Short of that though, what are people supposed to do about him? Get together and start sending telepathic messages to him, to get him to stop being the asshole he always was?

Good point. Let's do absolute nothing and assume we will win in 2026.

- - - Updated - - -

We are 100 days in there is going to be a civil war before 2026

There's no war if you just capitulate off the bat.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you doing any of those things, regardless of whether the democrats at large “ordain” it?

I'm involved in local activism where we have an organizational infrastructure, but without a national infrastructure we can't scale that. There needs to be leadership.

- - - Updated - - -

They are fighting him in the courts everytime trump does something unconstitutional, ya know, the one thing that can actually be done to help Americans right now. That is the current national strategy to combat republicans who have total control of the government at this moment.

"We took him to court a few times!" is definitely going to win us the legislature in 2026. That worked so well in 2024. Genius.

Civil disobedience that you just listed is absolutely useless to *stop* anything awful being done and can lead to a negative result for elections going forward regarding moderates.

Ah yes, I forgot about when MLK said "We better stop before we get moderates in trouble!"

A call for mass action to do what? This really just feels like the "resistance" movement from 2016 that just wanted to DO SOMETHING but in reality just did nothing but virtue signal about how much of a better democrat they are than the rest.

An organized general strike among sympathetic unions would go a long way.

All people did in 2016 was bitch and moan, just like you are advocating for now.

[Moralgy]

I'm involved in local activism where we have an organizational infrastructure, but without a national infrastructure we can't scale that. There needs to be leadership.

So what are you doing on your local level? Like give some details so people can like replicate what you view as the ideal way to combat what is happening?

Ah yes, I forgot about when MLK said "We better stop before we get moderates in trouble!"

We are in a vastly different landscape these days with the abundance of media being able to turn a molehill into a mountain and lose an election over it.(but only for democrats, republicans can be outright nazis and get away with it because America is at its core a right wing leaning country unfortunately)

An organized general strike among sympathetic unions would go a long way.

All people did in 2016 was bitch and moan, just like you are advocating for now.

Okay theres an idea, lets go. How do you propose democrats organize this without being seen as basically satan and smeared by all the right wing media that is basically 90% of the media outlets though? Since you seem to care about 2026 sometimes, but not others, is this one of those times?

"We took him to court a few times!" is definitely going to win us the legislature in 2026. That worked so well in 2024. Genius.

Okay, so fighting the agenda in court isnt something you care about as "doing something" despite it actually protecting people from unconstitutional orders. Like right now trans army members are getting their treatments back because of taking that order to court as well as not getting kicked out en mass. I view fighting in the courts as a very important fight, otherwise the little guys are gonna get stomped on by the wave of bullshit EOs.


You legit are the one that just stands on a corner and screams "DO SOMETHING" right now and when given things that are being done, and one of the few things that will actually DO SOMETHING in the state of politics atm, you shake your head and say DO SOMETHING ELSE.

idk man, you really are all over the place and need to dial in what you want actually done and consider the implications of what your ideas would actually do, if anything

[NineSpine]

So what are you doing on your local level? Like give some details so people can like replicate what you view as the ideal way to combat what is happening?

That's not how it works. Different things work at different levels. I can tell you how we organized Occupy Wall Street and handled the PR for it, but I think your intention here is not to get answers but to ask me questions you assume I don't have answers for.

We are in a vastly different landscape these days with the abundance of media being able to turn a molehill into a mountain and lose an election over it.(but only for democrats, republicans can be outright nazis and get away with it because America is at its core a right wing leaning country unfortunately)

Maybe that's because Democrats do nothing bold and constantly apologize for existing.

Okay theres an idea, lets go. How do you propose democrats organize this without being seen as basically satan and smeared by all the right wing media that is basically 90% of the media outlets though?

They can start by not giving a fuck what right wing media says. This kind of tip-toeing, upset-nobody bullshit is why Democrats lose and lose and lose and lose. Boldness wins. Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016, but the Democrats were scared into choosing Hillary. How did that work out?

[postman1782]

What a winning message! We will surely take the legislature in the midterms with such an inspiring vision.

Democrats 2026: "What do you want me to do about it?"

This is like being a member of the Washington Generals fan club.

I am not hearing anything from you, and you are still crying and trying to blame Democrats.

[NineSpine]

I am not hearing anything from you, and you are still crying and trying to blame Democrats.

It is literally the job of the Democrats to win the elections.

[Breccia]

The WSJ continues to take out its aggression on-

"Seriously, at what point will they just say 'we regret endorsing neither candidate'? None of their OP EDs about Vice President Harris were as dire as what we're seeing now."

They will probably not admit that, they are after all conservative leaning, meaning they're closer to "would literally rather die" than "able to admit fault and course correct". But they are open to facts and reason, such as these:

Trump’s latest plea to Russian President Vladimir Putin to halt its attacks on Ukraine highlights the risky premise he made in his quest for a quick end to the war—namely, that the Kremlin wants peace.

Three months in with little to show for it, Trump was reduced to appealing to Putin by his first name after Russia’s latest missile barrage on Kyiv. “Vladimir, STOP!,” he wrote. “5000 soldiers a week are dying. Lets get the Peace Deal DONE!”

Trump’s failure to halt the fighting after promising to do so quickly has left him increasingly frustrated and seemingly immobilized.

The question now is whether he is willing to press Moscow to make significant concessions to get a deal, in the same way that he has pushed Ukraine, a step that would put his larger goal of a rapprochement with Russia at risk.

Trump insists he’s willing to give Russia and Ukraine only so much more time to come to a deal before the U.S. backs out of helping with peace talks.

“We are thinking that, very strongly, that they both want peace but they have to get to the table,” Trump told reporters at the White House Thursday, adding that he had a deadline in mind that he did not divulge.

By the way, Trump claiming he has a deadline but not telling anyone what it was sounds a lot like "I have the inklings of a plan" to me.

"Didn't Trump say he would have ended the war by now?"

Yes. Repeatedly. His followers like @tehdang never once called him out for it, even as he weeps like a child outside the Kremlin, begging for Putin to save his poll numbers.

Speaking of worthless foreign policy:

While Trump has meted out criticism of Putin before, such instances are relatively rare, and aides to Trump say he has lately been genuinely surprised—and privately irritated—that Putin hasn’t shown more flexibility.

Trump has aimed his displeasure at Ukraine, rather than Russia, because it has been the easier of the two to influence, said Thomas Graham, a distinguished fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. After a blowup in the Oval Office between Trump and Zelensky in February, Trump briefly cut off intelligence sharing with Kyiv and suspended military shipments.

The term for this is "bully". Russia invaded a sovereign country, they were the aggressor, they are the ones who are wrong. Pushing Ukraine around is not just vile, it's also not working. Trump's only plan seems to be "let Putin win" and hoping everyone will forget that this was a major campaign promise.

"Why doesn't he try, oh I don't know, tariffs? He used them on literally every other country except Russia."

Well, problem is, Russia's got so many sanctions against them already, tariffs don't, you know, DO SOMETHING anymore. Name one thing you bought from Russia in the last four years.

...didn't think so.

Trump doesn’t have as many easily deployed levers against Moscow, Graham said. After Russia’s invasion in 2022, the U.S. and its allies have already waged unprecedented sanctions against Russia, which has reoriented its exports toward new trading partners.

Since he was inaugurated, Trump has suggested that he might target Russia’s oil exports with further sanctions if Putin resisted a peace deal. But he made no mention of that idea Thursday, indicating that he thought Russia would be doing the West a favor by not seizing the rest of Ukraine.

Asked what concessions Putin had offered in negotiations he said: “Stopping the war, stopping taking the whole country.”

Trump still shows little appetite for crossing Putin. His belief that he could achieve a peace deal appears to be based on his admiration for the Russian president, whose decision to invade Ukraine in 2002 he has called “genius” and “savvy.”

Yep. Apparently, Putin's idea of a concession is "we get to keep half the country" and Trump was into that.

The WSJ goes on to describe how, unlike Trump, people in Russia actually do what Putin tells them. Probably because Putin is a murderer, something Trump admitted his first term while continuing to defend his relationship with Putin. A relationship with a dictator who invaded a sovereign country and shows no sign of backing off, despite Trump saying, over and over, that it would have happened by now.

Everyone who believed, or those who pretended to believe, Trump could end the war quickly or fairly have been proven wrong. I see no reason why Putin would change course, with Trump announcing that he would give up and is likely withholding aid again.

[NineSpine]

Okay, so fighting the agenda in court isnt something you care about as "doing something" despite it actually protecting people from unconstitutional orders. Like right now trans army members are getting their treatments back because of taking that order to court as well as not getting kicked out en mass. I view fighting in the courts as a very important fight, otherwise the little guys are gonna get stomped on by the wave of bullshit EOs.

You legit are the one that just stands on a corner and screams "DO SOMETHING" right now and when given things that are being done, and one of the few things that will actually DO SOMETHING in the state of politics atm, you shake your head and say DO SOMETHING ELSE.

idk man, you really are all over the place and need to dial in what you want actually done and consider the implications of what your ideas would actually do, if anything

The legal fight and the political fight are related but also distinct. It's good to fight in the courts. It's not a substitute for winning the public.

I provided very specific examples of things to do, and you are just pretending I didn't because it doesn't fit your narrative.

How about we start with this simple one: Don't pass Trump's fucking budget bill like Schumer did. I mean what the fuck are we even talking about here? Democrats are literally capitulating on legislation right at the outset with no fight, and you are acting like I'm being crazy for asking for more than that.

[PhaelixWW]

To actually declare war, only Congress can do that. However, because of that Act, he can do a "police action" for 60 days without Congressional approval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

Apropos: