Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[gondrin]

Good to hear this without a dozen caveats.

The problem with going off half-cocked in situations like this is simply not knowing the facts.

Let's pull up the criminal complaint with sworn affidavit:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...111628.1.0.pdf

Courthouses are public places, or if you want to be super specific, are filled with public areas. You and I can walk in. The Milwaukee ICE ERO Task Force had an arrest warrant for Florez-Ruiz. They had every right to execute a warrant in such areas. The plain meaning of areas open to the public is that they aren't specifically denied to federal officials. Which would be ridiculous.

So you have this guy charged with three counts of Battery-Domestic Abuse-Infliction of Physical Pain who had already been deported once according to records. The ICE agents confirmed with the courthouse's chief judge on the areas where enforcement actions could and could not take place. And then the judge adjourns the criminal trial against the individual, and ferries him away through the jury's quarters.

The heroes of due process should have something to say about an already-deported illegal alien being protected by a judge, who adjourns a criminal domestic abuse case to rush the defendant out through the jury entrance, with the victims of domestic abuse still in the courtroom. I'm unsure if @NED funded considers this "cheering on the arrest" or "due process" or "the Republican party now."

First off, courthouses, while public places, there are areas that people cannot just freely enter. You actively cannot freely enter an active courtroom when it is in session, or even when it isn't in session without actually having official business. Second, as I stated, the Judge presiding over the courthouse that day should be given fair warning about what is going to happen along with City Hall(the local government) and the like so that issues like what has happened don't arise.

Yes, they can execute said warrants in the public areas but also, and this is a big one, they are also required to identify themselves as actual ICE agents(and have identifying markers) or other officers of the law while executing it. There are very real reasons for this. It is for the safety of the officers along with the safety of everyone else around. One of the big reasons why they are going into courthouses and the like is because people are not allowed to carry firearms into them.

If ICE or whomever continues to grab people without identifying themselves and continue to do it in plain clothes, someone will open fire onto them.

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I don't think there was enough time for a proper investigation and evidence gathering.
If that's the case merely being accused or using a loose definition of this crime cannot be interpreted in any other way than intimidation.

To anyone defending this, don't think this stops with just illegal immigrants or judges you don't like.
Unless you like the idea of living in a kingdom where the king has divine right to rule with absolute authority.

Well, in this case, as far as the Judge goes, it would fall under the same thing as getting pulled over slightly speeding and finding something in plain sight that is typically illegal to have which would cause them to get arrested. Getting pulled over for slightly speeding would be the same as ICE here executing a warrant for the actual person that was in court and the finding something illegal is the judge directing the person out the jury door instead of the normal door people come in and out of while also purposefully giving false information to misdirect federal agents.

Now, whether or not they can prove that was the intention of the Judge is for a court to decide. Hence the due process. And while the government can ask for whatever punishment, it would still be up to the court to actually dole out that if found guilty AND likely will not.

[Mehrunes]

Republics love the 2nd amendment and stand your ground laws, so they shouldn’t complain when they start being put into use.

Yeah, no. Not even their gun fetishism is stronger than their blatant hypocrisy. As already proven by none other than their previous guru Reagan, who quickly passed a gun control bill when he was the governor of California when black activists decided to call Republicans out with "what if we start acting like NRA gun nuts as well?".

[Veggie50]

I think you are confused about how wealth works. Nobody with that much wealth wakes up every day and says "I need to go buy a burrito, what stock should I sell to do that?" They use the wealth as leverage.

I own some empty land nearby to where I live. It's just a random investment. I let some folks hunt there, and occasionally there's some tree farming. It's worth around $100k on paper. If I wanted to sell that land, it might take years if I am lucky. It's not in an area that is easy to offload property in, but the fact remains that it represents about $100k worth of wealth. The practical illiquidity is mostly a moot point, because I don't need to sell it. I can leverage it as needed, which is going to be more useful than selling it even if I could sell it quickly.

Additionally, you are assuming that since Musk can't sell his Tesla stock on the open market without cratering the price, he can't sell it. The open market is not the only place to sell stock. He would just need a buyer. And guess what... that buyer doesn't need to have the value of Tesla in liquid assets. That buyer would be borrowing the vast majority of the money.

The point here is that wealth is not about liquidity to wealthy people. It's about leverage. You are looking at wealth the way a middle class household does. That's not the category here.

You’re very condescending

The difference between your land and stocks is that selling a square meter of that land had no impact on the value of the remaining square meters.

Sure it’s possible for someone to buy all musks shares at once, just like its possible for someone to offer 10 trillion dollars for it.

A good example, though not entirely equivalent, is bitcoin. If theres a million bitcoin in the world, and bitcoin is valued at 80.000 per bitcoin, it does not mean there’s 80.000.000.000 of wealth in bitcoin, because only the first few bitcoins trade at that price if everyone sold off.

Of course that wealth can be leveraged (which is done mostly for tax purposes), but it does represent a risk to the lender. If you have 100 bitcoins representing 800.000.000 they’ll allow you to leverage like 100.000.000 in loans against a small interest. What they definitely will not due is get anywhere near the 800.000.000 estimation, because there would be significant risk the real value does not match its on paper estimate.

We WILL see something go terribly wrong with overleveraged billionairs. It’s part of Murphy’s law.

None of this pertains to the post I was replying to though.

[Mehrunes]

not just that

a two year old

Obvious Tren de Aragua member. Besides, we all know blood citizenship is unconstitutional. That's why it's a part of the Constitution, duh.

[SAY HER NAME]

Republican lawmakers are planning to shut down the US audit regulator, which was founded in the wake of the Enron scandal more than two decades ago, as part of a reform package designed to deliver Donald Trump’s deregulatory agenda.

The proposal to eliminate the independent Public Company Accounting Oversight Board was published late on Friday by the leadership of the House Committee on Financial Services, for inclusion in the giant tax and spending bill being considered by Congress.

Republicans plan to scrap US audit regulator

https://www.ft.com/content/d8a02822-...retype=blocked

Time to Enron ourselves back up

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Good to hear this without a dozen caveats.

The problem with going off half-cocked in situations like this is simply not knowing the facts.

Let's pull up the criminal complaint with sworn affidavit:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...111628.1.0.pdf

Courthouses are public places, or if you want to be super specific, are filled with public areas. You and I can walk in. The Milwaukee ICE ERO Task Force had an arrest warrant for Florez-Ruiz. They had every right to execute a warrant in such areas. The plain meaning of areas open to the public is that they aren't specifically denied to federal officials. Which would be ridiculous.

So you have this guy charged with three counts of Battery-Domestic Abuse-Infliction of Physical Pain who had already been deported once according to records. The ICE agents confirmed with the courthouse's chief judge on the areas where enforcement actions could and could not take place. And then the judge adjourns the criminal trial against the individual, and ferries him away through the jury's quarters.

The heroes of due process should have something to say about an already-deported illegal alien being protected by a judge, who adjourns a criminal domestic abuse case to rush the defendant out through the jury entrance, with the victims of domestic abuse still in the courtroom. I'm unsure if @NED funded considers this "cheering on the arrest" or "due process" or "the Republican party now."

Dunno why I am being tagged on this. From the moment this came out my response was that I was not going to hitch my ride on this case. I did comment on how much of a circus the administration is making the entire thing. Its a fetish show for the administration that craves doing stuff like this.

[Edge-]

https://www.ft.com/content/d8a02822-...retype=blocked

Time to Enron ourselves back up

Now I'm sure we'll see someone go, "But those duties are being folded into the SEC!"

and that's nice and all until you see that the levy that funded the agency and the employees that did the work will be eliminated leaving no funding to do the actual work.

because the whole point continues to appear to be to roll back any regulations that might protect or help consumers by doing things like ensuring there's not another enron

or another ftx, which was worse than enron

things are lookin great

[SAY HER NAME]

Now I'm sure we'll see someone go, "But those duties are being folded into the SEC!"

and that's nice and all until you see that the levy that funded the agency and the employees that did the work will be eliminated leaving no funding to do the actual work.

because the whole point continues to appear to be to roll back any regulations that might protect or help consumers by doing things like ensuring there's not another enron

or another ftx, which was worse than enron

things are lookin great

This one protects investors as they do audits of the accounting books. So, the only people that would support this are fraudsters

[Toho]

Although its really shocking how fast pace things are going... there is several years left until the next election. But what does that matter anymore Trump has reshaped the republican party and the rest of the world has to deal with the American cyclical insanity going forward.

[Gorsameth]

This one protects investors as they do audits of the accounting books. So, the only people that would support this are fraudsters

like the current administration?

[Kaleredar]

Although its really shocking how fast pace things are going... there is several years left until the next election. But what does that matter anymore Trump has reshaped the republican party and the rest of the world has to deal with the American cyclical insanity going forward.

We’ll see how things like in 2026 and 2028, but Trump is a fat unhealthy blob and he won’t be around forever. And the current crop of republicans is chock full of spineless and deeply unlikable cowards, the kind that trump loves because they don’t stand in his way.

But that same limp-wristed impotence that Trump wants in his circle is not something that will appeal to voters at large. It’s not the “persona” that Trump sold himself as having, and I don’t know that you can artificially dredge that up out of nowhere. Not that they won’t try, but without trump barking orders I don’t know that the current Republican Party would even know what to do.

[NineSpine]

You’re very condescending

The difference between your land and stocks is that selling a square meter of that land had no impact on the value of the remaining square meters.

Sure it’s possible for someone to buy all musks shares at once, just like its possible for someone to offer 10 trillion dollars for it.

A good example, though not entirely equivalent, is bitcoin. If theres a million bitcoin in the world, and bitcoin is valued at 80.000 per bitcoin, it does not mean there’s 80.000.000.000 of wealth in bitcoin, because only the first few bitcoins trade at that price if everyone sold off.

Of course that wealth can be leveraged (which is done mostly for tax purposes), but it does represent a risk to the lender. If you have 100 bitcoins representing 800.000.000 they’ll allow you to leverage like 100.000.000 in loans against a small interest. What they definitely will not due is get anywhere near the 800.000.000 estimation, because there would be significant risk the real value does not match its on paper estimate.

We WILL see something go terribly wrong with overleveraged billionairs. It’s part of Murphy’s law.

None of this pertains to the post I was replying to though.

Your argument seemed to be that it is invalid to use someone's illiquid assets as a measure of wealth, so that's the only thing I was addressing. Wealth is not a measure of your ability to liquidate assets. It's a measure of usable value, but you don't have to liquidate an asset to use it.

I'll grant you that Tesla may be a special case due to how absurdly overvalued it has spiked.

[Xyonai]

We’ll see how things like in 2026 and 2028, but Trump is a fat unhealthy blob and he won’t be around forever. And the current crop of republicans is chock full of spineless and deeply unlikable cowards, the kind that trump loves because they don’t stand in his way.

But that same limp-wristed impotence that Trump wants in his circle is not something that will appeal to voters at large. It’s not the “persona” that Trump sold himself as having, and I don’t know that you can artificially dredge that up out of nowhere. Not that they won’t try, but without trump barking orders I don’t know that the current Republican Party would even know what to do.

Speaking of utterly unlikable republicans...

Vance's Easter visit to Rome clogged its streets with a 40-vehicle entourage. He also demanded the Coliseum be closed so he and his family could tour it alone. Tourists who properly booked slots in advance got screwed. He's apparently the first to make that demand. Then he didn't bother to show up.

A bit of a - relatively - old story, but the sheer scale of Vance's dipshittery kind of got overshadowed by the Pope deciding to die after spending less than an hour with the guy.

[Edge-]

Speaking of utterly unlikable republicans...

Vance's Easter visit to Rome clogged its streets with a 40-vehicle entourage. He also demanded the Coliseum be closed so he and his family could tour it alone. Tourists who properly booked slots in advance got screwed. He's apparently the first to make that demand. Then he didn't bother to show up.

A bit of a - relatively - old story, but the sheer scale of Vance's dipshittery kind of got overshadowed by the Pope deciding to die after spending less than an hour with the guy.

jay dee hamel continues to show how he's just a terrible, awful, no-good person on the daily.

[Poopymonster]

My point was that cops, who at least have some shred of accountability in their job, fuck up going to the "right house" on a regular basis. ICE, with no accountability and a legal blank check to break down your door, aren't going to give two shits whose house they raid. Immigrant house? Yay they got one! Citizen house? Clearly someone aiding the enemy! The neighbors place? Really the right place all along, look more secret terrorists!

Their "data" will consist of "a brown person was spotted within a hundred yards of this place" therefore they will knock down every door and will always find the right guy. Because like on Cardassia, the verdict is always guilty.

Ahh, the George Zimmerman defense.

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While it will be fine for this administration, insurance carriers most definitely won't want to have anything to do with it(outside of the few that wouldn't pay out regardless like The General which generally only provides the minimum coverage) and in every single state, you are required to have insurance before even getting a driver's license.

So yeah, as you said, Musk is still fucked in that regard. And also, because the moment crashes start to happen, they will be able to sue Tesla if it is due to automated driving having a fit more than user error.

If I recall NH don't require insurance.
NH if you have can prove you have the financial means to pay for shit going wrong on your own you don't need insurance.

[gondrin]

Ahh, the George Zimmerman defense.

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If I recall NH don't require insurance.
NH if you have can prove you have the financial means to pay for shit going wrong on your own you don't need insurance.

Every state requires some form of minimum coverage of insurance to be licensed, whether that is actual full on insurance of a SR-22 Bond or Certificate of Financial Responsibility. Some states do allow this as an alternative to actual full coverage insurance. However, to get that, you have to show you have a minimum level of coverage by an insurance company. Most people carry liability insurance and don't worry about insuring their own car.

Minimum coverage in NH to be licensed to drive is as follows:

$25k per person or $50k per accident, and $25k for property damage. This is for simple liability. Also, NH requires an underinsured/uninsured coverage if in the event you are hit by someone who chooses not to drive with any form of insurance.

[Xyonai]

jay dee hamel continues to show how he's just a terrible, awful, no-good person on the daily.

Compared to guys like Trump or Musk, He's such a contemptible little freak in the most pedestrian yet annoying ways, yet it somehow makes him more hatable than a lot of his more outragious and vocal peers. Like I think a lot of us have had a job where a guy like Vance was our manager, or a friend who dealt with a Vance in their shitty job.

[Liftbrul]

Remember how a bunch of us were saying that US citizens would be deported without due process?

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/26/nx-s1...d-girl-citizen

ICE has deported a US citizen without due process.

I'd like to say we've reached cartoonish levels of evil, but I think we've been there for a while now.

[Corvus]

It's only taken over three years, and no doubt he will flip-flop again, but Trump seems to finally realise that maybe pootie has no desire for peace after all.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8gpdj704mo

[Breccia]

It's only taken over three years, and no doubt he will flip-flop again, but Trump seems to finally realise that maybe pootie has no desire for peace after all.

Putin just earlier announced he'd taken over a large chunk of Ukraine. Meaning, now Ukraine will not accept any offer from Trump.

[Shpriest]

So [i]you have this guy charged with three counts of Battery-Domestic Abuse-Infliction of Physical Pain

All that sea lioning while sporting the avatar of a fucking rapist and voting for another one is pathetic. You piece of shit never ever get to claim the high ground.