Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Templar 331]

A two-year-old, being a minor, is in the care of their parent, parents, guardian, whatever.

In the event that a child can not be cared for by the parents, usually in cases of law breaking, the child is under the care of the state. Not shipped to another country.

The hope, I think, for the anti-ICE side is that the mother wanted to leave her 2-year-old in the states, but some coercion or rushing happened when she declared to ICE that she would be taking her daughter with her.

The hope for anyone who's not a fucking sociopath is that the parents are naturalized seeing as their child is a citizen.

Now, if I'm reading correctly, it sounds like you want to separate mother and daughter against the mother's wishes. I'm a little less happy doing that than you, with all we know now, but it's not like I can force you to change your mind.

No, what you're trying to do is hide your bigotry by throwing accusations towards others who aren't trying to separate mother and child. This whole situation shouldn't be a thing and yet you are more than happy to defend it. We have citizens being deported and you're bending over backwards to try to justify it in any way possible.

[Edge-]

You can choose to doubt the signature of the mother all you wish.

Considering Republicans don't think signatures are enough verification for voting, I'll take it under advisement.

Imagine how much easier this would all be if her due process rights were observed and she had legal representation present to affirm these things.

Welcome to not prejudging the situation without good cause. I'm glad to have you here, if you would just come to better terms with the uncertainty.

How dare we use past events to predict future performance.

The mother was deported, and she had the child in her legal custody. I'm not a big fan of separating the mother and child when deporting, because the state knows how to take care of the girl better.

Clearly, there were zero other options. Holding the mother until arrangements could be made to have the child picked up by family? Actually observing due process rights that even undocumented immigrants have? No, that's outrageous. The laws says she must go and she must go.

Or something.

[Azadina]

You can choose to doubt the signature of the mother all you wish. So long as you believe that she had the right and opportunity to continue to care for her child. And literally sign a document attesting to that.

Prove that she wrote it, and not some janitor, secretary or random intern that ICEtapo pressured to fabricate the note.

[tehdang]

In the event that a child can not be cared for by the parents, usually in cases of law breaking, the child is under the care of the state. Not shipped to another country.

Luckily for us, the mother is willing to care for her child.

The hope for anyone who's not a fucking sociopath is that the parents are naturalized seeing as their child is a citizen.

If we're going hypotheticals, let's say both parents went through the immigration system and enter lawfully.

No, what you're trying to do is hide your bigotry by ...

We have enough accusations of bad faith in this forum for a decade. Just imagine that I'm slinging the same barbs back at you for the time being.

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Considering Republicans don't think signatures are enough verification for voting, I'll take it under advisement.

Democrats think the signature itself is racist, so I'll leave the middle ground open.

Imagine how much easier this would all be if her due process rights were observed and she had legal representation present to affirm these things.

It's great that she had a removal order. Kind of like due process was observed.

How dare we use past events to predict future performance.

How dare we wait for the facts of the case to pass judgment on the case. Prejudice, based on past events, is apparently a guarantee!

Clearly, there were zero other options...

I've seen a systematic neglect of a US citizen to return to the US through a valid port of entry, so I think you should expand your options to include that. In fact, I think you should observe due process for removals. Let's see the factual record for when that was challenged in this case.

Prove that she wrote it, and not some janitor, secretary or random intern that ICEtapo pressured to fabricate the note.

Once you're at the Gestapo references, I tend to think your real point is that illegal aliens must never be removed. Bring 8-10 million into the United States, and pretend that only the Gestapo would seek removal. I tend to think the American people are over this game, but we'll see. I consider the political consequences to be an open question, considering the chaos of the administration tasked with enforcing the law.

[Templar 331]

Luckily for us, the mother is willing to care for her child.

No, this is not "luckily for us." This is traumatizing and damaging a life for the sake of racism in this country. Nothing else. There is no justice in these actions. There is no right here. The mother made a terrible choice in the few choices we as a nation gave her. All to sat the hatred you people feel for anyone other than yourself. That is all this crusade against foreigners is.

This choice should never have to be made in a civilized and lawful country, but you people keep making everyone else have to make it. You, no one else. It isn't the law forcing these people to make them, the laws can be changed. You choose to vote for demagogues who champion the removal of "illegals" while also making it difficult to be a citizen of this country. And any attempt by Democrats to update any immigration laws is seen as "getting illegals to vote for them!!!1!1!11"

This is on you, we're just calling you out on it.

[DarkTZeratul]

If you read my post, you'll know that I'm not relying on what a judge requests.

Yes, I'm well aware you have zero respect whatsoever for what judges or lawyers or frankly anyone says if it conflicts with the Almighty Infallible Trump Administration, Who Must Never Be Questioned. Because if the law is inconvenient to your fervent desire to kick every immigrant out of this country as quickly as possible, then fuck the law, and apparently fuck the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution in particular.

You can choose to doubt the signature of the mother all you wish. So long as you believe that she had the right and opportunity to continue to care for her child. And literally sign a document attesting to that.

Prove that it's really her signature. Prove that ICE didn't forge it, or force her to sign it under duress, or that she even knew what she was signing. Give me one single solitary shred of evidence that ICE's claims are in any way credible.

...the chaos of the administration tasked with enforcing the law.

This is an administration that, at every single fucking level, has openly taken the position of "I am the law."

[Flarelaine]

I wonder how much more history Republicans will try to rewrite?

Why should they stop when they are so successful?

If there is something they are really winning at, it's this.

[SAY HER NAME]

If you think there is an equivalency between we dont know if everything the lawyers say and we dont know if what ICE is saying its true then I dont know what to say. There is a diff between they are exaggerating and we don't know if ICE deported a US citizen after unlawfully detaining them and not letting them have any due process. Its more pressing when we do know that the judge had requested her presence so that the issue could be cleared up. I would hope that most people are cool with some sort of process b4 sending citizens to Honduras. Moreso when it comes to children.

[Azadina]

Once you're at the Gestapo references, I tend to think your real point is that illegal aliens must never be removed. Bring 8-10 million into the United States, and pretend that only the Gestapo would seek removal. I tend to think the American people are over this game, but we'll see. I consider the political consequences to be an open question, considering the chaos of the administration tasked with enforcing the law.

There's a difference between deporting illegals using due process, and acting like Gestapo on 'good ol' juden hunt. Not my problem if ICE is acting like the latter. I'm just wondering why the fuck do you approve of it?

Also, no proof in sight that the note was made by her. Will you provide any, or is it good enough that whomever wrote it, as long as you have it to wave around?

[Mekh]

when we have word from the mother, let me know.

i don't trust ice showing a hand-written note and saying "trust us"?

was a lawyer present to affirm this?

if not, then her rights were violated as she was owed due process and that letter cannot be verified.

You'd expect a decision of this magnitude would have to be notarized.

[Pannonian]

There's a difference between deporting illegals using due process, and acting like Gestapo on 'good ol' juden hunt. Not my problem if ICE is acting like the latter. I'm just wondering why the fuck do you approve of it?

Also, no proof in sight that the note was made by her. Will you provide any, or is it good enough that whomever wrote it, as long as you have it to wave around?

Because he has been carrying water for the facists all the time. There is no difference between him and an asshole 80 years ago defending the deportation of jews as they had it coming, and technically its within the law.

"Of course putting them away is fine. They're criminals after all!" its the same playbook: Stupid word games: illegal immigrant is the new jew that violated the Nüremberg laws. They're law after all, and if you violate them you have basically lost all your rights and we can send you to a death/slavecamp.

The lack of self-awareness is staggering, but i hope he will learn it latest at his denazification trial.

[Breccia]

some coercion or rushing happened

Wow. That's some highly hostile use of the passive tense. Say it like we all know it happened: ICE did this. This isn't "oh, it happened somehow". The people you voted for on purpose, to do this on purpose, did this on purpose. And you're defending this, by saying "it happened somehow".

Still a traitor against the Constitution, by the way, you still haven't mentioned Trump wanting a criminal investigation against bad polls.

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I'm not a big fan of separating the mother and child

This is a lie. Trump separated families last term, putting the children in dog cages, and you never once opposed that. Then, you voted for him again.

You don't just accept, you approve and support this. Claiming you're not a fan is an obvious lie based on your own words and actions.

Stop lying, traitor.

[Iliena]

Trump team blast reports suggesting Amazon will display tariff costs for consumers

A question now about reports Amazon will soon display how much the Trump tariffs are adding to the cost of each product.

Leavitt steps in, saying she just got off the phone with the president, who was talking about this.

"This is a hostile and political act by Amazon," she says.

www.bbc.co.uk

You couldn't make this shit up!

[En Sabah Nur]

www.bbc.co.uk

You couldn't make this shit up!

Might be pocket change to him, but I hope Bezos is super glad he donated all that money to support Trump now... literally calling him hostile and saying that he's partnered with a "propaganda arm" of China lol Why anyone thinks Trump is an ally to anyone but himself will forever confuse me.

[Breccia]

You couldn't make this shit up!

You know, for someone who claims to have the most transparent administration ever, being angry at others being transparent is just admission of hypocrisy.

We all know the real reason: it makes Trump look bad. If Amazon or Temu had an "inflation adjustment" setting for Biden, Trump would have cheered it. Granted (a) we'll never know, so I admit that's a hypothetical, and (b) inflation affects everything so there'd be no need for such and (c) inflation doesn't, you know, go away because the guy in the WH shit his diapers again and changes his game plan over 30 seconds.

Amazon and Temu are doing the right thing. "This isn't our fault" is exactly what you want to say when it isn't your fault, and you have proof. Which they do.

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Might be pocket change to him, but I hope Bezos is super glad he donated all that money to support Trump now... literally calling him hostile and saying that he's partnered with a "propaganda arm" of China lol Why anyone thinks Trump is an ally to anyone but himself will forever confuse me.

He wants those tax cuts. They...aren't happening right this second.

[Kaleredar]

Might be pocket change to him, but I hope Bezos is super glad he donated all that money to support Trump now... literally calling him hostile and saying that he's partnered with a "propaganda arm" of China lol Why anyone thinks Trump is an ally to anyone but himself will forever confuse me.

We’ll have to see how much this is “pocket change.” I imagine that the normal from-China drop shipped crap Amazon mainly deals in will be hit pretty hard, which only compounds on top of people being hesitant to spend money in anticipation of economic hardships to come.

[Mazza]

www.bbc.co.uk

You couldn't make this shit up!

Sheesh...

As a stretch you can explain it as a move that is hostile to the current US gov and therefore political. AS A STRETCH. This is just Amazon trying to cover their ass somewhat saying "look, it's not our fault the price on these items went way up!"

But even IF it is hostile and political... so? They are allowed to be that, fuck off misinformation bimbo

[Breccia]

How much has DOGE found in fraud and waste, again?

(checks trustworthy sites)

Well, we don't know, most of the claims they make in public turn out to be misleading or flat-out false. We do know that Musk retconned his potential savings from trillions to $150 billion, meaning they probably have a list just over $150 billion, some of which is accurate and some of which is not.

The NYTimes found the cost of DOGE firing everyone, including lost productivity, rehirings, and of course the many mistakes being made by what's left of the federal workforce.

It's $125 billion.

"That can't be right."

It isn't, I typoed. It's $135 billion this year alone.

The errors and obfuscations underlying DOGE’s claims of savings are well documented. Less known are the costs Mr. Musk incurred by taking what Mr. Trump called a “hatchet” to government and the resulting firings, agency lockouts and building seizures that mostly wound up in court.

The Partnership for Public Service, a nonprofit organization that studies the federal work force, has used budget figures to produce a rough estimate that firings, re-hirings, lost productivity and paid leave of thousands of workers will cost upward of $135 billion this fiscal year. At the Internal Revenue Service, a DOGE-driven exodus of 22,000 employees would cost about $8.5 billion in revenue in 2026 alone, according to figures from the Budget Lab at Yale University. The total number of departures is expected to be as many as 32,000.

Neither of these estimates includes the cost to taxpayers of defending DOGE’s moves in court. Of about 200 lawsuits and appeals related to Mr. Trump’s agenda, at least 30 implicate the department.

“Not only is Musk vastly overinflating the money he has saved, he is not accounting for the exponentially larger waste that he is creating,” said Max Stier, the chief executive of the Partnership for Public Service. “He’s inflicted these costs on the American people, who will pay them for many years to come.”

Simply put, even Musk had to know the trillions in fraud and waste did not exist. That was a lie and even Trump supporters knew it. But the slash and burn and blatant law breaking was optional and botched.

Oh, and this isn't even counting the damage to the stock market, the upcoming damage due to Trump's tariffs, or "Elon Musk has your Social Security number now". All of which have their own dollar values.

Trump supporters have tried to defend this, often by saying nothing because they know this was all bullshit. Others say

Harrison W. Fields, a White House spokesman, defended DOGE’s cuts and called the $150 billion that the administration had saved “monumental and historic.”

“It’s important to realize that doing nothing has a cost, too, and these so-called experts and groups are conveniently absent when looking at the costs of doing nothing,” he said.

And yet, Musk was counting the savings going forwards (by cutting ongoing contracts, for example) and still is just barely over the amount of damage he personally caused.

"Okay, but the fired people were just meaningless office staffers, paper pushers. They weren't doing anything, now we're not paying their salaries, either."

First of all, buying them out or firing them means we're paying them until the fall. They were fired without cause, after all.

Second, that's not an accurate description of who Musk fired.

Separately, a New York Times investigation into cuts to the National Nuclear Security Administration illustrates the effect of the buyouts on efforts to safeguard and modernize the nation’s nuclear weapons. Of more than 130 people who were fired or accepted DOGE’s invitation to quit, at least 27 were engineers, 13 were program or project analysts, 12 were program or project managers, and five were physicists or scientists.

Four of these employees were specialists handling the secure transport of nuclear materials, and a half dozen worked in the agency unit that builds reactors for nuclear submarines.

“Those are such hard jobs to fill, because people could make as much or more money working for the plant or laboratory itself,” said Jill Hruby, who led the National Nuclear Security Administration during the Biden administration.

Several people on the nuclear safety team found new jobs with the government contractors they once supervised. Across government, a disproportionate number of professionals in high demand by the private sector have quit, according to Mr. Stier.

“There are plenty of people who are best in class who are sticking it out because they’re so purpose-driven,” he said. “But it’s easier for someone who has options to say, ‘This is crazy, I’m not going to do this anymore,’ and go someplace else.”

Yeah, Musk fired people it's going to be tough and expensive to replace. Also, now there are freelancers with American nuclear secrets. I think we've talked about them before. Here's the NYTimes article about them.

In short, while at least claiming to be fixing a problem that doesn't exist, Musk ended up canceling his own claimed, and likely overblown, benefits. He has objectively cost as much as he saved, if not more, and done more lingering damage than saved lingering costs.

Some of you knew this and voted for it anyhow, outing you as insincere posters and liars. You will be identified accurately as such.

[gondrin]

www.bbc.co.uk

You couldn't make this shit up!

You know, they are required to do this due to local laws and regulations around additional fees and taxes. So, unless she wants to call local laws and regulations "hostile and political acts", she can just go stuff it.

This is why, if at a store you see the price of something being $10 and there is a 5% state or local sales tax, you'll see that at the register instead of on the shelf within the US. In the end, you'll end up paying $10.50 for it.

[david0925]

www.bbc.co.uk

You couldn't make this shit up!

I thought tariff is our winning from other countries. Why is this a hostile act? This is free advertising from Amazon for trump!