Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Huehuecoyotl]

Poppers tolerance of intolerance paradox.

If a nazi is on the street. Punch him. Only way to keep society free and open.

And what Endus said in the post above.

There's no paradox if your society is reflective, rather than tolerant. If you radiate tolerance, you get tolerance reflected back. If you radiate intolerance, you get intolerance reflected back. In fucking spades. Paradox avoided.

[Corvus]

They like to forget those "Western values" also included the Transatlantic slave trade and deep antisemitism and a wholehearted love on monarchism. Amongst plenty of other pretty terrible things. The Western world may have moved past some of those in recent history, but if you're only looking at the last couple hundred years, you're not talking about "Western values" as a whole, but a cherry-picked subset.

It's also super fucking weird when they try and stick exclusively to the latter half of the 20th Century onward, but also include Bronze Age religious values from the near-Orient, which aren't even "Western" in the first place. The Levant's not "the West", dudes.

Nothing about the concept's ever made a lick of internal sense. As you say, it's usually just meant to cover up for someone's racism or xenophobia.

Also, fun note; Greece is only questionably maybe part of "The West". It depends on your exact definition. And since democratic thinking sprang from Greece . . . is democracy even a "Western" thing? Or was it a good Eastern/mid-Orient thing the West adopted? See also Abrahamic religion, a hell of a lot of mathematics, engineering, and science, and so on. Hell, a lot of what we consider early "Western" scientific advances were just straight-up stolen from Arabian authors, or developed on top of their prior work without any attribution to those sources. There's a reason "algebra" and "algorithm" come from Arabic and that in the Western world, we use Arabic numerals, after all.

Technically, a lot of that came from even further east, from India, with the Arab world acting as a conduit. The numeral system is more accurately the Hindu-Arabic numeral system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%...numeral_system

[Pannonian]

I've heard all about how real freedom is throwing people in jail for memes and banning opposition political parties. Yes, I'm used to all the arguments that twist around in a pretzel. And the pathetic lashing out with racist is entirely expected. That's fine. It's medicine, and you're overdue. I just hope it's not too late for the patient.

The harsh truths hit the worst. And maybe it does take a foreigner to say them, since he has less fear of being arrested for the speech.

I have to apologize for some of the comparisons i threw at you. I was under the impression you were cynically carrying water for Nazis. Turns out you're just completely delusional.

How else could you - sitting in a country where legal residents get deported to death camps for their political opinions - chide the EU for a lack for democratic values with no more than some tabloid stories about "meme prisons"?

The dissonance is almost amazing!

[Poopymonster]

Sorry to say, but I've seen the documentary from this timeline, and can say for sure it'll be named Gilead.

We'll never be Gilead.
Pregnant women in Gilead got free housing and health care.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

We'll never be Gilead.
Pregnant women in Gilead got free housing and health care.

That face when fictional dystopic societies just seem too optimistic to be believable.

[Azadina]

We'll never be Gilead.
Pregnant women in Gilead got free housing and health care.

I guess technically, but on the other hand the free housing part is being forced to live with your rapist, and be his slave.

[DarkTZeratul]

We'll never be Gilead.
Pregnant women in Gilead got free housing and health care.

Also, free healthcare and childcare for the baby!

[Breccia]

I'm not governed by your laws

You voted for a terrorist and you did it on purpose, and you're poo-pooing Sweden?

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It seems like it, because now multi-million dollar warplanes are falling off aircraft carriers in Pete Hegseth's military.

It happened again. Same ship, too.

"Why are you bothering to bring this up? How is this obvious complete irrelevant accident Trump's fault or problem?"

Two U.S. officials told CBS News that initial reports suggested the jet may have fallen overboard after the carrier turned sharply while taking evasive action against Yemen's Houthi militants.

Yeah, the Houthis Trump said promised not to attack ships. Which the Houthis said they didn't do.

[Endus]

Technically, a lot of that came from even further east, from India, with the Arab world acting as a conduit. The numeral system is more accurately the Hindu-Arabic numeral system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%...numeral_system

Sure. I was picking the near-east just as one single example, not trying to hold them up as the sole source of advancement or something. I'm not trying to trade one wrong argument for another.

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Poppers tolerance of intolerance paradox.

If you look at tolerance as a social contract, intolerance breaches that social contract and thus removes you from the protection of that contract. No paradox.

I honestly think Popper's "paradox of tolerance" is one of the worst philosophical takes to get popular coverage. The social idea of tolerance never suggested things like "tolerate murders". We all collectively understood there were things that could not be tolerated. The base premise was never "tolerate everything", it was always only ever "tolerate the meaningless differences between us, especially where they cause no harm or hardship on others".

If a nazi is on the street. Punch him. Only way to keep society free and open.

Nazism is an overt and direct threat. It's an ideology that would see me killed. I'm gonna treat someone Sieg Heiling the same way I would someone saying "I'm gonna kick your face in" and taking a swing at me. Because the latter's actually less bad.

If the police won't use force to stop them, I'll have to. And as I've said before in other threads; don't @ me about how shocking it is to see people advocate violence; if you support the police, you support violence, too. Everything police officers do is either directly violent or with a clear implied threat of violence. And that's not American police, it's all police. The concept of police.

[Dezerte]

Yes, this is exactly what I'm calling out. You're free to claim that this is true liberty and democracy! I think it's a farce and a thin defense for rot. And part of me accepts Europe languishing and all this perversion to rip apart society in order to "save" society. It's a damn shame, but it really is not for me to decide at the end of the day. I'm not governed by your laws, and I'm not oppressed by your laws, and I don't have to live in the society that did this to itself by mostly free choice.

I'm mostly a lurker in this thread, and would consider myself to have a more moderate opinion on the Trump administration than most of the vocal posters here, but I'm sorry - this is a hilariously bad take and I had to make a post. We're witnessing the decline of the US - abandoning it's allies, democracy and western ideals of freedom and liberty. But it's some racist getting a fine in Europe that is the issue, not what the Trump administration is doing.

Absolute bonkers take.

[Rasulis]

How worried are people about the economy? How about this.

Housing prices are down in many places including some desireable places in Texas and Florida.

Mortgage interest rate is down. Or as far as it is going to get without the Fed lowering the rate to zero again.

It is a buyers' market. The likes that the US has not seen in decades.

Except, buyers are not buying.

Fannie Mae Home Purchase Sentiment Index® (HPSI) cratered.

US active listing count is going up to pre-pandemic level.

Same states are worse than others.

Florida.

Texas

Buyers, even if they could afford the home, are simply not in the buying mood.

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Real estate is big in Miami and in Florida. The industry generates almost a quarter of the state’s economic activity, more than for any other state, according to the National Association of Realtors. There are about 11,000 real estate agents in South Florida, substantially more than in metro Los Angeles and New York — cities more than twice as large. It was the hottest market in the US in 2022. How is it now?

Home sales are down more than 17% from a year earlier in Miami, nearly six times the national decline, according to March data from Redfin Corp. Properties now spend a median of almost 100 days on the market, more than twice the US rate and a sign of waning demand. In the rental market — which is more likely to cater to undocumented migrants and legal immigrants living temporarily in the US — prices for one-bedroom apartments have plunged 16% in the past year, Zillow Rentals data show.



Also, foreign buyers are not buying those multi-million-dollar condos either.

[En Sabah Nur]

Catching up on stuff. I just got to Vance totally encouraging tourism during the world cup...

VANCE: We'll have visitors from close to 100 countries. We want them to come, we want them to celebrate, we want them to watch the games. But when the time is up, they'll have to go home, otherwise they'll have to talk to Secretary Noem

As if watching tourists already getting detained and imprisoned wasn't enough.

[Breccia]

As if watching tourists already getting detained and imprisoned wasn't enough.

Now now, don't forget students!

[Kathandira]

How worried are people about the economy? How about this.

Housing prices are down in many places including some desireable places in Texas and Florida.

Mortgage interest rate is down. Or as far as it is going to get without the Fed lowering the rate to zero again.

It is a buyers' market. The likes that the US has not seen in decades.

Except, buyers are not buying.

Fannie Mae Home Purchase Sentiment Index® (HPSI) cratered.

US active listing count is going up to pre-pandemic level.

Same states are worse than others.

Florida.

Texas

Buyers, even if they could afford the home, are simply not in the buying mood.

- - - Updated - - -

Real estate is big in Miami and in Florida. The industry generates almost a quarter of the state’s economic activity, more than for any other state, according to the National Association of Realtors. There are about 11,000 real estate agents in South Florida, substantially more than in metro Los Angeles and New York — cities more than twice as large. It was the hottest market in the US in 2022. How is it now?

Home sales are down more than 17% from a year earlier in Miami, nearly six times the national decline, according to March data from Redfin Corp. Properties now spend a median of almost 100 days on the market, more than twice the US rate and a sign of waning demand. In the rental market — which is more likely to cater to undocumented migrants and legal immigrants living temporarily in the US — prices for one-bedroom apartments have plunged 16% in the past year, Zillow Rentals data show.



Also, foreign buyers are not buying those multi-million-dollar condos either.

I just bought a home (checks date) two days ago. I was worried things in the market would be getting worse through the year and the next few. Perhaps I should have waited another month or two lol.

Honestly though, wouldn't change much, this is how the market is in the place I purchased. House was on the market for 50 days before I bought. No competing offers.

[En Sabah Nur]

Now now, don't forget students!

I would never!

Quite amazing, though. He's basically alienating a global audience very willing to spend money... how dumb can someone be?

[Poopymonster]

I would never!

Quite amazing, though. He's basically alienating a global audience very willing to spend money... how dumb can someone be?

As an added bonus, after the World Cup they'll even provide transport to an airport to assist your departing of this country to one of their choice!
Tick tock bitches!

[Breccia]

They're suffering greatly. Their economy is suffering greatly because they're not doing trade with the U.S.

--Trump, about China

No external shock can change the fundamentals of China's stable economic foundation.

--China, about Trump

Yeah, trade talks are going great. The difference is, Trump has to convince the US (specifically, people voting with their money) that he's telling the truth. China wins by default just by not being known incompetent liar Trump.

[Rasulis]

I just bought a home (checks date) two days ago. I was worried things in the market would be getting worse through the year and the next few. Perhaps I should have waited another month or two lol.

Honestly though, wouldn't change much, this is how the market is in the place I purchased. House was on the market for 50 days before I bought. No competing offers.

I would have done the same and not wait. Trying to time the housing market is a fool's game. As long as it works out financially, you want a home, you love the home and neighborhood and done all the due diligence (not in flood zone or on top of old landfill, etc.), then buy. At least you don't have to compete with multiple offers like it used to be a couple of years ago.

Nothing wrong with renting. However, I like having my own home. Especially, when you found the right one.

[tehdang]

double post

[Breccia]

I'm sure, as more moderate than this forum (says really nothing)

It really does, when even moderates from another continent are calling you out on your deplorable positions. And you've made it clear trolling is your political priority ages ago. Your faux outrage is summarily handwaved. @Dezerte takes this one.