Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Are you really going with the line that a detention center is commerce?

You have been shown multiple articles that say that it is a privately owned center, that contracts with the federal government for money. It is just as much commercial property as Mar-a-Lago, which is not owned by the government either, that's why Trump charges for the Secret Service to stay there.

And you are old enough to know that.

- - - Updated - - -

Trump redirects dot-gov website to fan fiction.

So WaPo found that Trump had put “LAB LEAK: THE TRUE ORIGINS OF Covid-19" on an official federal site. Questionable enough on its own, as all the results are questionable. But it only starts there, and gets worse.

Please note, first, that “Covid-19” is written in the cursive of a wedding invitation while the rest of the words are written in the block type of a JAMES PATTERSON NOVEL. The font fades toward the bottom of each word, in a way you are most accustomed to seeing not on government websites, where the goal is legibility, but rather on airport fiction, where the goal is conveying that the identical twin is a serial killer.

Yes, the WaPo journalist wrote all that out. But here's the picture:



"Did Trump actually write any of this?"

Very likely no.

"Did Trump personally engage in any of the research this dot-gov site claims is true?"

Very likely no.

"Trump looks a lot younger and healthier than I remember him."

The picture is edited.

Now visitors to covid.gov are properly oriented. We all understand that we have been hoodwinked by a massive government conspiracy, and only the 47th president — who had nothing to do with anything covid-related — can save us.

Scroll to: a Google Earth map of Wuhan, China, which has been doctored to have some kind of shaky, smoky effect, showing visitors that the Wuhan Institute of Virology is just 7.5 miles from the Huanan Seafood Market.

Has that sunk in yet? If so, get ready to have your mind further blown. The National Institutes of Health is about 7.5 miles from the Smithsonian National Zoo. My neighborhood is about 7.5 miles from the White House. The Trump National Golf Club at Bedminster, New Jersey, is about 7.5 miles from the Wendy’s in Branchburg, New Jersey. Do you see what we’re talking about here? (If you do, could you explain it to me?)

Scroll to: a portrait of a beleaguered Anthony S. Fauci pressing his hand to his forehead, next to a pdf of the preemptive pardon President Joe Biden granted Fauci before he left office. Now we are really getting to the bottom of this, because before I opened “LAB LEAK: THE TRUE ORIGINS OF Covid-19,” I would have told you the reason Biden preemptively pardoned Fauci was not because of wrongdoing but because Biden feared that the famously vengeful Trump would seek to punish Fauci. And I would have noted that Trump turning on Fauci was one of the more bewildering things to happen in 2020. Fauci wasn’t a Biden guy. He was the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases during Trump’s first term. Trump invited Fauci to brief America on the coronavirus crisis many times, putting him forth as a trustworthy expert.

Scroll to: shady-looking images of former New York governor Andrew M. Cuomo. Scroll to: “There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively protected Americans from COVID-19.” The aesthetics of all of this can best be described as “The Apprentice” meets “To Catch a Predator,” as if at any scroll, Chris Hansen is going to pop out from behind a sofa and accuse Fauci of sexting underage covid vials.

By now we might all know that coherent aesthetics are not necessarily a priority for this administration. The homepage for the U.S. DOGE Service looks like a GeoCities project circa 1997. MelaniaTrump.com sells an absolutely wild hodgepodge of Christmas ornaments, NFTs and jewelry. Hulk Hogan ripped off his shirt at the Republican National Convention. Trump likes what he likes, and calling someone else tacky almost always makes the critic look snobby.

So I almost left all of this alone. Except, after visiting “LAB LEAK: THE TRUE ORIGINS OF Covid-19” — after sending it to a couple of people and having a good chuckle — I learned that covid.gov was not a Trump original, like DOGE.gov or MelaniaTrump.com. Rather, it was a complete overhaul of a previous government website, which was originally created to provide resources and information — how to get a free coronavirus test; what warning signs to look for regarding long covid — for a terrified public. As recently as April 1, the homepage contained guidance about which populations would most benefit from a vaccine booster.

The Library of Congress has archived versions of covid.gov only going back as far as 2022, two years into the pandemic. But you know what archived site is available going back to March 2020? The White House’s page touting its coronavirus response. And you know what you find when you look at that site? You find reminders that Trump didn’t inherit this pandemic from the Biden administration; Trump was president for the entire first nine months of the pandemic. The White House was bragging that it distributed 125 million face masks to school districts — the masks that “LAB LEAK” now decries as ineffective. That they launched Operation Warp Speed to develop the very vaccines that many of Trump’s followers now believe either don’t work, will make you infertile, or contain nanobots.

This is what is killing me about “LAB LEAK: THE TRUE ORIGINS OF Covid-19.” Not that it’s weird, ugly or lame. But that this was a normal government website until just a few days ago, and now, boom, everything that was once carefully vetted and fact-checked is gone. It’s a full-scale rewriting of history, using official government channels.

This is what you get when you willingly vote for a failed entertainer trying to become a dictator, @tehdang you get blatant government propaganda and gaslighting.

And just so we're clear, if you Google "do masks help with COVID?" the very first link is the Mayo Clinic who also references the CDC, as recently as 2023. Even the current NIH take on the topic, the second hit on the list, written to side with Trump's agenda, and which I will now quote for posterity, agree.

A meta‐analysis of randomised controlled trials of pre‐COVID‐19 showed that surgical masks or N95 respirators reduced clinical respiratory illness in health‐care workers by 41% and influenza‐like illness by 66%: they work but are far from perfect. N95 masks were not statistically better than surgical masks in preventing proven influenza, nor in preventing COVID‐19, although the latter is based on weak data. N95 masks are more efficient filters of small particles, but these findings suggest it is reasonable to recommend that health‐care workers use surgical masks when there is risk of droplet spread and reserve precious N95 masks for health‐care workers performing aerosol‐generating procedures.

And NIH cited multiple studies. They do even try to say "well it didn't work in 2009, therefore we have no proof" and quote one study with four people. Simply put, the studies they cite to disprove the effectiveness of masks don't hold up against the Mayo Clinic, especially when one's a study of SARS with four people, no really, Trump tried to use a medical study with four people despite having tens of millions of people he infected in the USA.

Trump was in charge when he invited COVID into the country, botched the response, and blamed the only person on his staff trying to fight it. Now he's trying to rewrite history to blame Obama for Katrina. And the people who willingly voted for this are complicit and will be quoted as such.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Are you really going with the line that a detention center is commerce? That's your legal authority?

I would like to see you define an exchange of money for services as anything other than commerce.

[tehdang]

A for profit prison is absolutely Commerce lol?

They're selling services to the federal government. To the city they're in, this is a detention facility that serves as a residence for the detained, and not selling goods and services to the public.

Yes, it is a form of commerce. Because a transaction has taken place(GEO Group received funds in exchange for holding detainees), that is the definition of commerce. Commerce isn't just buying and selling goods, it is also to provide a service in exchange for something of value.

And yes, the GEO Group runs a for-profit system of detention centers. If it were an actual state run detention center, no, it wouldn't be a form of commerce.

Selling a detention service to the government. Not selling the city goods and services. To the mayor, this is for detained persons of the United States government. Not your Walmart.

That matters if you're a mayor. It won't matter if he's tagging along with a city inspector, like fire and health inspectors.

I would like to see you define an exchange of money for services as anything other than commerce.

What kind of goods and services is this facility selling to the public? It's a federal government contractor.

Which is to say that throwing a big protest and trying to push past ICE/DHS agents is breaking the law.

And, like I said earlier, constitutes a publicity stunt for the mayor and state representative, since the whole goal is to create an incident and get anti-government people to learn their names and cheer them on. Pretty easy case. I'm just a little surprised people thought mayors had lawful authority to demand entry. I think you, and they, would have a different opinion if a right-wing city official busted into a Biden or Obama center and yelled at federal employees.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

TWhat kind of goods and services is this facility selling to the public?

The government is literally the public.

[gondrin]

They're selling services to the federal government. To the city they're in, this is a detention facility that serves as a residence for the detained, and not selling goods and services to the public.

So, are they selling a service(therefore commerce) or not selling a service?

Because it doesn't matter who the 2 parties are that are involved in the transaction, it is still one party(GEO Group) selling a service some entity. This entity being the government(the public).

The only time it isn't a form of commerce is if it were a full on government run facility that was owned by the government that provides it to the general public at no cost. This is why Congress isn't doing any form of commerce even though they are providing a service. They aren't selling it to anyone. This is why your local police or fire department isn't doing any form of commerce even though they are providing a service. They aren't selling it to anyone.

This is also why Soup Kitchens and other forms of food assistance that is given away aren't a form of commerce. Because nothing is being sold.

What kind of goods and services is this facility selling to the public? It's a federal government contractor.

They are selling their usage of their facility to ICE for detention services. As Endus said, it is no different than renting out a storage facility to store stuff. Because that is what ICE is doing, literally storing their detainees there for the time being until they are either deported or released.

[Endus]

They're selling services to the federal government. To the city they're in, this is a detention facility that serves as a residence for the detained, and not selling goods and services to the public.

I've literally worked for the DOD in a civilian capacity where part of my job was keeping the office supplied with sundries. So I had catalogues for several retail locations and would order stuff in as needed.

Did that mean Staples wasn't engaged in commerce, because their commerce was with a Federal office? Or do you just not have any clue what you're talking about?

[Breccia]

They're selling services to the federal government. To the city they're in, this is a detention facility that serves as a residence for the detained, and not selling goods and services to the public.

"To the public" is not required to be a commercial business. You're old enough to know that.

[tehdang]

The government is literally the public.

When we say a retail establishment sells goods to the public, it's not referring to the federal government. When we're talking about public accommodation laws, we aren't talking how to make places open to the federal government. There are other definitions, don't be obtuse.

So, are they selling a service(therefore commerce) or not selling a service?

Because it doesn't matter who the 2 parties are that are involved in the transaction, it is still one party(GEO Group) selling a service some entity. This entity being the government(the public).

The federal government is not the state or local authorities. Nice try.

The only time it isn't a form of commerce is if it were a full on government run facility that was owned by the government that provides it to the general public at no cost. This is why Congress isn't doing any form of commerce even though they are providing a service. They aren't selling it to anyone. This is why your local police or fire department isn't doing any form of commerce even though they are providing a service. They aren't selling it to anyone.

They aren't selling goods and services to the residents and visitors of Newark. They are providing detention services to the federal government. You want to take a tour? Talk to the fed, or make an appointment.

Since they didn't make an appointment, it was trespassing, and they deserved ejection. Resist it, and that's an arrest. The people doing it knew that, so made a big show and fooled the MAGA-of-the-left into support. All fine and good, the left messaging people of the left. But if you want to attract the people of law and order, and seriously not be insane hypocrites on attacking Trump, the choice is to avoid the stupid political shows.

I grant you that Trump is aided by the intelligence of his enemies, and this is his enemies shooting themselves in the foot. Get it together. Demand an appointment to inspect, and if you're refused, then make a big stir. Agitate to your congressman to perform a congressional field trip to ICE-utilized facilities.

https://x.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1921007780011368554

Now for the actual goal of trespassing and arrest to gain name recognition, I think this helps Ras Baraka win the New Jersey Democratic gubernatorial primary.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

When we say a retail establishment sells goods to the public, it's not referring to the federal government. When we're talking about public accommodation laws, we aren't talking how to make places open to the federal government. There are other definitions, don't be obtuse.

What we are talking about is the government (public) purchasing a service from a private organization. That's commerce, my dude.

[Breccia]

When we say a retail establishment

Nobody once said "retail". Useless deflection.

The federal government is not the state or local authorities.

...what the fuck even is this? It's different when a private company sells to the state government than the federal? This doesn't even make sense as a lie. This is just throwing up on the keyboard.

They aren't selling goods and services to the residents and visitors of Newark.

And cars made in Detroit are often sold outside of Detroit. Next attempt to nitpick that comes off as idiocy?

Since they didn't make an appointment

It has already been pointed out to you that an appointment isn't necessary for an inspection. You choosing not to read it doesn't make you right, it makes you argument have no points.

Now for the actual goal of trespassing and arrest to gain name recognition

Citation needed.

I will also remind you that Trump pardoned people who stormed the Capitol and you voted for him three times. You clearly do not have any issue with something objectively weaker. Even if I ceded every one of your points, and I don't they're all wrong, but even if I did, you'd still have to say "that level of parading without a permit is just a slap on the wrist and something I am on the record of declaring okay" and the moral is you're still a hypocrite.

[Xath]

They're selling services to the federal government. To the city they're in, this is a detention facility that serves as a residence for the detained, and not selling goods and services to the public.

Selling a detention service to the government. Not selling the city goods and services. To the mayor, this is for detained persons of the United States government. Not your Walmart.

That matters if you're a mayor. It won't matter if he's tagging along with a city inspector, like fire and health inspectors.

What kind of goods and services is this facility selling to the public? It's a federal government contractor.

Which is to say that throwing a big protest and trying to push past ICE/DHS agents is breaking the law.

And, like I said earlier, constitutes a publicity stunt for the mayor and state representative, since the whole goal is to create an incident and get anti-government people to learn their names and cheer them on. Pretty easy case. I'm just a little surprised people thought mayors had lawful authority to demand entry. I think you, and they, would have a different opinion if a right-wing city official busted into a Biden or Obama center and yelled at federal employees.

Contrary to what the orange dipshit has told you selling service is commerce. In this case they are selling to the largest PUBLIC institution in the country so yes the local government absolutely has oversight and congressional members absolutely do.

[Zaydin]

Contrary to what the orange dipshit has told you selling service is commerce. In this case they are selling to the largest PUBLIC institution in the country so yes the local government absolutely has oversight and congressional members absolutely do.

Don't expect good faith arguments from TD. He is incapable of them.

[gondrin]

When we say a retail establishment sells goods to the public, it's not referring to the federal government. When we're talking about public accommodation laws, we aren't talking how to make places open to the federal government. There are other definitions, don't be obtuse.

The federal government is not the state or local authorities. Nice try.

They aren't selling goods and services to the residents and visitors of Newark. They are providing detention services to the federal government. You want to take a tour? Talk to the fed, or make an appointment.

Since they didn't make an appointment, it was trespassing, and they deserved ejection. Resist it, and that's an arrest. The people doing it knew that, so made a big show and fooled the MAGA-of-the-left into support. All fine and good, the left messaging people of the left. But if you want to attract the people of law and order, and seriously not be insane hypocrites on attacking Trump, the choice is to avoid the stupid political shows.

I grant you that Trump is aided by the intelligence of his enemies, and this is his enemies shooting themselves in the foot. Get it together. Demand an appointment to inspect, and if you're refused, then make a big stir. Agitate to your congressman to perform a congressional field trip to ICE-utilized facilities.

https://x.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1921007780011368554

Now for the actual goal of trespassing and arrest to gain name recognition, I think this helps Ras Baraka win the New Jersey Democratic gubernatorial primary.

And for the final time, commerce doesn't have to be done to the general public to be considered commerce. Trade, defined as good and/or services rendered for some form of compensation, between nation states between the 2 governments can be considered a form of commerce. Trade between a private entity(business) and a government body can be considered a form of commerce. It doesn't matter what services are rendered, what consists of those services, what goods are traded and the like. All that matters to be considered commerce, in some form, is that 2 parties are trading something for some form of compensation.

That being said, the problem with the link you have is that it states that the facility in question, the Delany Hall Facility, was acquired by the DHS for use for ICE detainees. It is still owned by the GEO Group. It is leased out to DHS for said usage. One of their points is that it is now under jurisdiction of the federal government because of that lease. Problem is leasing something doesn't give jurisdiction rights for the person or entity leasing it. It is still under the jurisdiction of whatever local or state government that the property is under.

It is no different than Mar-a-Lago. It is considered private property under jurisdiction of Palm Beach, Florida even though it is the private residence of the sitting President of the United States and has 24/7 armed guards(Secret Service) patrolling the property along with it being fenced off. However, the local government can demand access to it at any time for inspection even though it is under federal usage.

[tehdang]

Contrary to what the orange dipshit has told you selling service is commerce. In this case they are selling to the largest PUBLIC institution in the country so yes the local government absolutely has oversight and congressional members absolutely do.

You still have yet to identify and discover the difference between the federal government and local governments. Just because the same word is used for the general public and public institutions doesn't mean they are the same thing.

What we are talking about is the government (public) purchasing a service from a private organization. That's commerce, my dude.

The federal government is not the general public when it comes to commercial institutions. I don't care what lengths you want to go to in order to pretend selling detention services to the federal government is like Walmart as regards mayors walking about and demanding entry.

And for the final time, commerce doesn't have to be done to the general public to be considered commerce.

The laws you tried to invoke,

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54683488

the local municipality does have a right to inspect any business that does any form of commerce

just don't exist! I looked around for something stupid that New Jersey would do to empower local officials to inspect federal detention facilities run by private institutions, and I didn't find any. Feel free to cite and link. I think I know why you haven't yet.

That being said, the problem with the link you have is that it states that the facility in question, the Delany Hall Facility, was acquired by the DHS for use for ICE detainees. It is still owned by the GEO Group. It is leased out to DHS for said usage. One of their points is that it is now under jurisdiction of the federal government because of that lease. Problem is leasing something doesn't give jurisdiction rights for the person or entity leasing it. It is still under the jurisdiction of whatever local or state government that the property is under.

Mayors don't get special privileges of on-demand entry just because a private company owns the land. This should be a basic principle, but I've read enough of your posts that I guess it needs to be stated. You can be angry, and wanting to protest, and not ahead in your Democratic primary, but you can't just march to a prison and demand entry.

It is no different than Mar-a-Lago.

Your post sounded like you were serious, and seriously wrong, up until this point. The residence of a former president is nothing like a federally-run facility under the Executive Branch of the United States. Trump had left government, and the FBI wanted some stuff. ICE is still part of the government, and mayors don't get to scream and yell and push federal officers out of the way just because their poll numbers are tied with other Democrats.

[Tech614]

tehdang getting proved wrong by 5 different posters and still quintupling down.

Shocked, shocked I tell you.

[Breccia]

The federal government is not the general public when it comes to commercial institutions. I don't care what lengths you want to go to in order to pretend selling detention services to the federal government is like Walmart as regards mayors walking about and demanding entry.

They are both commercial. The private organization that is the prison is not a government entity, only selling to one. If I, a teacher, buy a shirt at Target, it doesn't make Target part of the state government. They remain a store. If my school buys them, a government entity, the same happens. They remain commercial.

The fact that you're ignoring me doesn't change how wrong you are, and you've responded to multiple other posters in bad faith. I am calling on literally everyone who can read this post to take the appropriate action, even if you think it will do nothing.

[draynay]

tehdang getting proved wrong by 5 different posters and still quintupling down.

Shocked, shocked I tell you.

It's sad that many people still bite.

[Ivanstone]

It's sad that many people still bite.

How you respond to trolls matters. People post useful information. You're not educating him since he is

dodging all the tough arguments

. You're providing useful information to the rest of us.

[Corvus]

Dementia Don flip flops all over the place so who knows if he'll stick with this, but he has agreed to sanction rusia with Europe if pootie rejects the ceasefire proposal.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ed-2025-05-10/

[Breccia]

Dementia Don flip flops all over the place so who knows if he'll stick with this, but he has agreed to sanction rusia with Europe if pootie rejects the ceasefire proposal.

That sounds exactly like what Biden did. Sounds like all those claims that he would end the war
before he was elected
Day One
in the first 100 days
ever when Biden could not are proving just as false as everyone, including his voters, knew they were.

For added fun, How Trump backed away from promising to end the Russia-Ukraine war in 24 hours is an AP article from April 24, but chronicles the pathetic failure of Trump on one of his biggest campaign promises.

Incidentally, here's Putin throwing himself a Victory Day parade:



What else did Trump want, again? Oh, right, the same thing.