Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Kiri]

It's sad that many people still bite.

Arguments like that are not had to convince the other side. They exist to influence the audience that does not participate.

[Slirith]

What’s worse is that, evidently all the trolling, intentional lying and spreading misinformation as well as the deflections and all the bad faith posting…. NONE of it is actually against the rules of the forum apparently.

It's why I think they're a mod alt. Ready for my red card lmao

[Cthulhu 2020]

I can't force you to recognize the dissonance in calling me a fascist, racist, and Nazi, and then telling me I should have no qualms about laws depriving "Nazis" of civil rights. You can repeat it another 9 times if you'd like, but the gist of your argument is that no caution is necessary. I think that your Nazi exemption to civil rights makes you an enemy of civil rights in general. I have an issue with identifying and oppressing the bad in society, since your Nazi will be another's gang members, or religious extremists, or rapists, or whoever else the Elder Millennials of the world decide don't get civil rights. If you thought the road on your logic stopped at Nazi, you're wrong. You're just robbing yourself of weapons when you're the undesirable.

The end goal of Naziism is to deprive various groups like minorities and LGBTQ people of either their human rights or their lives. Nazis desire control of society and its "norms" above all else. They want an ordered homogenous society that includes only them and will often turn on their own if said person isn't cruel enough.

We know Nazis like to play the victim, they do it all the time. It's how they get sympathy from stupid people. They're racist pieces of shit who hold disgust for "others" and deep in their hearts desire the lawful power to enact violence on people they don't like. Nazism is inherently violent. To be a Nazi is to decide you want the legal authority to hurt others for existing a certain way.

In a polite society the Nazis always try to fit in by playing nice. They'll say things like "I enjoy this asshole who says insults because he always speaks his mind, while this liberal who's nice is just PRETENDING to be nice," because they genuinely cannot perceive someone just being a good person. That would require them to either be a good person or have empathy, which are traits that Nazis do not have.

They use the rules, laws, and social etiquette of the polite society they live in to cry foul whenever their INHERENTLY VIOLENT IDEOLOGY gets them "Canceled" or whatever they cry about.

In a polite society, Nazis should have no rights to spread their bigotry and hatred, because tolerating that bigotry and hatred inevitably leads to a hostile takeover that deprives people of their rights.

Nazi scum in America will pretend to love the constitution and even cry about their constitutional rights to free speech being infringed, then the second they get power the constitution becomes "inconvenient" like the right of ALL PEOPLE to have due process or Habeus Corpus. The Trump administration is literally looking at suspending Habeus Corpus. You people don't get to pretend you give one single shit about the constitution or the rights it grants so long as you continue to back a regime that is blatantly ignoring the constitution to deprive people of their rights.

We need to Make American Great Again, and America was great when whenever someone espoused Nazi rhetoric, they got a swift punch in the face, told to shut the fuck up and seek help, and nobody gave them safe spaces to spread their ideology further. Nazis need to be afraid to be openly racist, transphobic, bigoted, sexist, etc. again. This era in American history where Nazis can openly parrot their ideologies in safe spaces like x.com and gather in groups and push their belief into government is a stain on our history, it will eventually end just like all the other times the Nazis/confederates/whoever tried to make a society based on hatred and "might makes right". The history books will remember Trump and his Nazi supporters as the villains, because Nazism always needs a villain to maintain its control, and when enough people get sick of becoming the "villain" to the Nazis they fight back against fascist scum.

[tehdang]

What’s worse is that, evidently all the trolling, intentional lying and spreading misinformation as well as the deflections and all the bad faith posting…. NONE of it is actually against the rules of the forum apparently.

Or,

"the local municipality does have a right to inspect any business that does any form of commerce, whatever that commerce is from retail to detention centers" is false as applied to the mayor. I think people haven't brought up supporting evidence for this statement, because it doesn't exist.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54683693

I'm not going to go so shrill to call it " trolling, intentional lying and spreading misinformation" "deflections" "bad faith," but refusing to ever comment on it might be deflection.

And I already said:
They're selling services to the federal government.

When I hear "any form of commerce" mentioned as forming the right of entry of any mayor to perform an unannounced inspection, I will challenge it. No such right to mayors exists! Special forms of commerce between the federal government and federal government contractors are not applicable to a mayor performing an unannounced drop-by to inspect protest the reopening of the facility. The US Government has acquired the facility for its use, and there's a sworn affidavit attesting to its acquiring and jurisdiction.

I think the legal case against him is strong, and all the technicalities of a commercial relationship between parties that aren't the Mayor/locality don't have bearing on the case. Which you can kind of see in the arguments people are not making: that gondrin was right about "any form of commerce," that it doesn't matter what city official for what purpose, they never have to make an appointment, etc.

See https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54683717 if you think I didn't solicit information correcting me on New Jersey laws.

The lengths people go to to defend a Democratic political stunt. He wanted to get arrested or be forced from the facility, and he got it. Because he knew what he was doing was breaking the law. Simple as that.

[Breccia]

Trump's TSA head went on Meet the Press for some reason and discussed raising the mandatory retirement age of air traffic controllers from 56 to 61.

Duffy said that air-traffic controllers can retire after 25 years of service, which means many of them retire at 50 years old, leading Duffy to propose a bonus as a solution.

“What I’ve done, I said, ‘Hey, listen. These are the best controllers we have in the airspace. Let’s give them a bonus. I’m going to give them a 20 percent upfront bonus to stay on the job. Don’t retire. Keep serving your country.’ And these are the best guys,” he said.

“These are not overnight fixes,” Duffy noted. “But as we go up — one, two years, older guys on the job, younger guys coming in, men and women — we can make up that 3,000-person difference.”

"Why are we short so many air traffic controllers?"

Trump fired a ton of them.

"So...Trump is bragging about fixing a problem he caused himself?"

I mean, he's bragged about reducing tariffs on countries in exchange for them removing the tariffs they set because of his tariffs. This can't surprise you.

"How will raising the retirement age fill a gap of 3,000 people? They already work there."

Admittedly, this isn't as stupid as it sounds.

The process to become a controller is not easy. Most candidates go through training at the FAA Academy in Oklahoma, though one-third of recruits don’t make it to the end, according to the AP. Other recruits learn through military training or college. The final step, which takes about two to three years, involves work as developmental controllers in airport towers or radar centers, the AP noted.

Keeping experienced people around a few more years will buy time for those trainees to become employees. Duffy has also offered cash incentives.

"You know who else fights for things like extended job lifespan and higher salaries? Unions. They also keep you from being fired without cause.

I'm not going to argue that the US airport system was 100% perfect when Trump took over, then planes started falling ouit of the sky. But I will (a) continue to blame him for crashes unfairly, because he made it a political/DEI issue unfairly, so he's invited it on himself, and (b) I will take every opportunity to mock Trump for having to fix a problem he himself caused.

"If Trump knew the airport system was in such bad shape, why didn't he do something his first term?"

He did, he announced he was going to sell off the FAA within months of taking office. Then, silence. He also hit major snags with the FAA within days of taking office by prohibiting them from making new regulations, despite people making new planes. But outside of early 2017, and replacing the head of the FAA in 2019, nothing. The FAA is not a major-

Trump Takes Free Golden ‘Air Force One’ from Qatar—and Keeps It After Office

Ah. Of course, it's all about his own interests. Silly me.

- - - Updated - - -

They're selling services to the federal government.

There's a word for this. Commerce. You're old enough to know that.

[gondrin]

Or,

"the local municipality does have a right to inspect any business that does any form of commerce, whatever that commerce is from retail to detention centers" is false as applied to the mayor. I think people haven't brought up supporting evidence for this statement, because it doesn't exist.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54683693

I'm not going to go so shrill to call it " trolling, intentional lying and spreading misinformation" "deflections" "bad faith," but refusing to ever comment on it might be deflection.

And I already said:
They're selling services to the federal government.

When I hear "any form of commerce" mentioned as forming the right of entry of any mayor to perform an unannounced inspection, I will challenge it. No such right to mayors exists! Special forms of commerce between the federal government and federal government contractors are not applicable to a mayor performing an unannounced drop-by to inspect protest the reopening of the facility. The US Government has acquired the facility for its use, and there's a sworn affidavit attesting to its acquiring and jurisdiction.

I think the legal case against him is strong, and all the technicalities of a commercial relationship between parties that aren't the Mayor/locality don't have bearing on the case. Which you can kind of see in the arguments people are not making: that gondrin was right about "any form of commerce," that it doesn't matter what city official for what purpose, they never have to make an appointment, etc.

See https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54683717 if you think I didn't solicit information correcting me on New Jersey laws.

The lengths people go to to defend a Democratic political stunt. He wanted to get arrested or be forced from the facility, and he got it. Because he knew what he was doing was breaking the law. Simple as that.

Unless it is direct property of the Federal Government, the Federal Government does not have direct jurisdiction of said property. It is a local private prison under the jurisdiction of the local municipality, which in this case is Newark. Keyword here is PRIVATE.

And yes, the mayor can direct unannounced inspections to make sure the building itself is up to code. That means that the local auditors, such as the local health department, your local safety inspection agencies and the like can make unannounced visits and demand to inspect their relevant areas. And, as of now, there are outstanding issues with said building as the GEO Group is refusing to allow inspectors to come onto the property.

Can the mayor himself go do these inspections? Unknown and I personally wouldn't want them to seeing as they tend not to be experts in these things. But, much like the sitting President can direct inspections of any federal facility outside of Congress and the Judicial system, a mayor or governor can direct inspections of any business or facility within their jurisdictions.

[Mekh]

Or,

"the local municipality does have a right to inspect any business that does any form of commerce, whatever that commerce is from retail to detention centers" is false as applied to the mayor. I think people haven't brought up supporting evidence for this statement, because it doesn't exist.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54683693

I'm not going to go so shrill to call it " trolling, intentional lying and spreading misinformation" "deflections" "bad faith," but refusing to ever comment on it might be deflection.

And I already said:
They're selling services to the federal government.

When I hear "any form of commerce" mentioned as forming the right of entry of any mayor to perform an unannounced inspection, I will challenge it. No such right to mayors exists! Special forms of commerce between the federal government and federal government contractors are not applicable to a mayor performing an unannounced drop-by to inspect protest the reopening of the facility. The US Government has acquired the facility for its use, and there's a sworn affidavit attesting to its acquiring and jurisdiction.

I think the legal case against him is strong, and all the technicalities of a commercial relationship between parties that aren't the Mayor/locality don't have bearing on the case. Which you can kind of see in the arguments people are not making: that gondrin was right about "any form of commerce," that it doesn't matter what city official for what purpose, they never have to make an appointment, etc.

See https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54683717 if you think I didn't solicit information correcting me on New Jersey laws.

The lengths people go to to defend a Democratic political stunt. He wanted to get arrested or be forced from the facility, and he got it. Because he knew what he was doing was breaking the law. Simple as that.

And when this turns out to have been illegal and torn apart by (possibly even Trump appointed) judges, are you for once going to come back like a person with a spine and say you were wrong? Unlike the many other cases where this has happened?

[tehdang]

Unless it is direct property of the Federal Government, the Federal Government does not have direct jurisdiction of said property. It is a local private prison under the jurisdiction of the local municipality, which in this case is Newark. Keyword here is PRIVATE.

This is why I think there's a dispute beyond what commerce means.

First, the federal government asserts it is through a signed affidavit in district court. You have yet to provide legal sources and New Jersey codes disputing that. I linked the signed affidavit in the previous post.

Second, it was always a question of whether the mayor has a right to insert himself whenever he feels like. You've dodged this four times now, and I think it's intentional. The health inspector (fire inspector, etc) might have reason and lawful authority to check for a violation, and MAYBE New Jersey has laws compelling access. The mayor doesn't. This is a hurdle you can't ignore. You are ignoring it, but everything beyond it will snap back to this trying point.

And yes, the mayor can direct unannounced inspections to make sure the building itself is up to code. That means that the local auditors, such as the local health department, your local safety inspection agencies and the like can make unannounced visits and demand to inspect their relevant areas. And, as of now, there are outstanding issues with said building as the GEO Group is refusing to allow inspectors to come onto the property.

I'm glad we're talking about the Mayor himself, not the mayor tagging along with the building inspector. Again, I'm happy to talk about tangential hypotheticals on how the Mayor of Newark might have behaved himself according to the law and process. Just let's get the basics down. He broke the law, and was arrested for it. There were other forms in which he could've still gotten limited access.

Can the mayor himself go do these inspections? Unknown and I personally wouldn't want them to seeing as they tend not to be experts in these things. But, much like the sitting President can direct inspections of any federal facility outside of Congress and the Judicial system, a mayor or governor can direct inspections of any business or facility within their jurisdictions.

Thank you for this small measure of agreement. I go from "Unknown" to "Vanishingly Small Chance, Nigh Impossible," due specifically to no news article or lawyer bringing up arcane New Jersey/Newark laws permitting this.

One article missing his lawful authority might be a journalistic mistake, but not all the articles I've read. I also suspect that Ras Baraka would have said something himself to assert his right to be there. He's no dunce.

Mayor Ras Baraka broke the law in a political stunt, and he wanted to be arrested or thrown out to buoy his political chances in the Democratic primary for governor. He is playing to a Democratic base that cheers these kinds of stunts. The wiser Democrats know chaos and lawbreaking helps Trump by diminishing the gap in chaotic behavior and competence. But how can they stop the catnip to the base? Even if the mayor reduces his chances to succeed in the general election, he's probably helped his chances in the primary.

[Xath]

Trump's TSA head went on Meet the Press for some reason and discussed raising the mandatory retirement age of air traffic controllers from 56 to 61.



"Why are we short so many air traffic controllers?"

Trump fired a ton of them.

"So...Trump is bragging about fixing a problem he caused himself?"

I mean, he's bragged about reducing tariffs on countries in exchange for them removing the tariffs they set because of his tariffs. This can't surprise you.

"How will raising the retirement age fill a gap of 3,000 people? They already work there."

Admittedly, this isn't as stupid as it sounds.



Keeping experienced people around a few more years will buy time for those trainees to become employees. Duffy has also offered cash incentives.

"You know who else fights for things like extended job lifespan and higher salaries? Unions. They also keep you from being fired without cause.

I'm not going to argue that the US airport system was 100% perfect when Trump took over, then planes started falling ouit of the sky. But I will (a) continue to blame him for crashes unfairly, because he made it a political/DEI issue unfairly, so he's invited it on himself, and (b) I will take every opportunity to mock Trump for having to fix a problem he himself caused.

"If Trump knew the airport system was in such bad shape, why didn't he do something his first term?"

He did, he announced he was going to sell off the FAA within months of taking office. Then, silence. He also hit major snags with the FAA within days of taking office by prohibiting them from making new regulations, despite people making new planes. But outside of early 2017, and replacing the head of the FAA in 2019, nothing. The FAA is not a major-

Trump Takes Free Golden ‘Air Force One’ from Qatar—and Keeps It After Office

Ah. Of course, it's all about his own interests. Silly me.

- - - Updated - - -



There's a word for this. Commerce. You're old enough to know that.

Controllers are forcibly retired because it's an insanely high stress job that also requires incredibly high mental acuity and reaction ability. That's also why training takes so long. Also great he got his 747 can he fuck off now?

[Doomcookie]

They're old enough to know how to make an appointment. This was a photo op, and they got the photo op. Mission accomplished.

That's a new take on defending fascism.

You want people to make appointments to have their rights denied?

- - - Updated - - -

What jurisdiction do you think city mayors exercise over federal property? I’m not talking about the bureau of land management renting a floor at the main st office building.

Thats federal and oversight, so restrictions are of a different class.

You're old enough to not put a rapist as your avatar photo.

[Breccia]

Controllers are forcibly retired because it's an insanely high stress job that also requires incredibly high mental acuity and reaction ability.

I wonder how many of the air traffic controllers Trump fired were young enough to keep? He seems interested in keeping the older ones who in a high-stress reaction-time job...

[Xath]

I wonder how many of the air traffic controllers Trump fired were young enough to keep? He seems interested in keeping the older ones who in a high-stress reaction-time job...

A lot of them but they would have been collecting paychecks for 20 years do you know how much money doge saved by firing them just ignore the sound of a incoming plane crash

[Dontrike]

"Let's see what happens." That's gist of Trump's Commerce Secretary when it comes to questions about tariffs, how Trump is losing the trade war, and so on.

This is easily the dumbest part of it.

Dock workers and truckers who are out of work or worried about their jobs because China‘s trade with the U.S. is coming to a grinding halt “should be very optimistic and positive, because the president truthed it out,” Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said Sunday.

Guys, it's fine. Trump "truthed" it and that's why things will work out. Fuck.........

Since the punishing 145 percent tariffs on China’s imports to the U.S. went into effect, ports on the West Coast have seen plummeting cargo volume. Trump has said that is “a good thing.”

“That’s good… That means we lose less money,” the president said last week in the Oval Office when a reporter asked about workers concerned that trade has sharply decreased. “When you say it slowed down, that’s a good thing, not a bad thing,” Trump added.

Fewer shipments means less work for those who transport imported goods — like dockworkers and truck drivers. And they’re already feeling the pinch.

“Just today, we had some what north of 235 members who sought work but were not able to get it,” Sal DiContanza, port liaison for the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, told NBC Los Angeles on Friday. “It’s beginning to manifest itself as a real loss of jobs and income from our members.”

While Lutnick said these American workers should stay “optimistic,” he also said that they can expect the tariffs to stay into the “foreseeable future.”

“We do expect a 10% baseline tariff to be in place for the foreseeable future — but don’t buy the silly arguments that the U.S. consumer pays,” Lutnick said on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday.

When host Dana Bash told Lutnick “the cost of tariffs are paid by American consumers,” the secretary responded, “Well, I disagree with that, you know.”

“Most economists, I would say, disagree with you on that,” Bash said. “And we have seen it being passed off time and time again to the American consumer.”

But that's not all the stupidity said by Lutnick, he went on to say that Trump "gets stuff done" because "We started at 10% and ended at 10% and the American economy is stronger than ever. This is a perfect example of why Trump created Liberation Day because he gets stuff done." (Imgur link cause I ain't getting it off of Tiktok.)

[Moralgy]

Five seconds after habeas corpus is suspended: what is wrong with making Americans disappear? The government said that person was bad so it's right to do the dang thing, there's is nothing to be concerned about.

- republicans

[Paranoid Android]

Trump administration poised to accept 'palace in the sky' as a gift for Trump from Qatar:

In what may be the most valuable gift ever extended to the United States from a foreign government, the Trump administration is preparing to accept a super luxury Boeing 747-8 jumbo jet from the royal family of Qatar -- a gift that is to be available for use by President Donald Trump as the new Air Force One until shortly before he leaves office, at which time ownership of the plane will be transferred to the Trump presidential library foundation, sources familiar with the proposed arrangement told ABC News.

The gift is expected to be announced next week, when Trump visits Qatar on the first foreign trip of his second term, according to sources familiar with the plans.

The plane will initially be transferred to the United States Air Force, which will modify the 13-year-old aircraft to meet the U.S. military specifications required for any aircraft used to transport the president of the United States, multiple sources familiar with the proposed arrangement said.

The plane will then be transferred to the Trump Presidential Library Foundation no later than Jan. 1, 2029, and any costs relating to its transfer will be paid for by the U.S. Air Force, the sources told ABC News.

So the value of the jet is $400 million before the military upgrades. Which that itself if would be a ton of money. For reference a new Air Force One is $2.3 billion so imagine putting umm, Half of that in this jet?

But people see he won't use it until January 2029 where transferred to his Library. So it's all legit.

So far people have estimated that Trump has grifted about $3 billion from his Presidency. Mostly from his meme coin and now this.

Edit: This just happened two weeks ago.

New Trump Golf Course, $5.5 Billion Beachside Project Announced for Qatar

[Xath]

Five seconds after habeas corpus is suspended: what is wrong with making Americans disappear? The government said that person was bad so it's right to do the dang thing, there's is nothing to be concerned about.

- republicans

Absolutely nothing which is what republican voters aren't getting they think it will only be suspended for immigrants that's not how this will work.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Absolutely nothing which is what republican voters aren't getting they think it will only be suspended for immigrants that's not how this will work.

And they still won't care...until it happens to someone they care about.

[NED funded]

Trump administration poised to accept 'palace in the sky' as a gift for Trump from Qatar:






So the value of the jet is $400 million before the military upgrades. Which that itself if would be a ton of money. For reference a new Air Force One is $2.3 billion so imagine putting umm, Half of that in this jet?

But people see he won't use it until January 2029 where transferred to his Library. So it's all legit.

So far people have estimated that Trump has grifted about $3 billion from his Presidency. Mostly from his meme coin and now this.

Edit: This just happened two weeks ago.

New Trump Golf Course, $5.5 Billion Beachside Project Announced for Qatar

The NYT has a piece on the many real estate deals his son is doing

It is a rush to cash in that involves billions of dollars with few precedents in American history.

A luxury hotel in Dubai. A second high-end residential tower in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Two cryptocurrency ventures based in the United States. A new golf course and villa complex in Qatar. And a new private club in Washington. In many cases these new deals promoted over the last week will personally benefit not only Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., but also President Trump himself.

“Challenge everything,” said the brochure for the new $1 billion, 80-story Trump International Hotel and Tower planned for Dubai, where units went on sale for the first time at prices reaching $20 million apiece, after a giant party held in Dubai this past week to honor Eric Trump and the new project. “Stop at nothing.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/05/u...ily-deals.html

For the curious, Hunter Biden at worst if you believe everything Republicans have told you made 5 million dollars across 10 years. Its been less than a year and the Trump family is signing billion dollar deals with middle eastern royalty and oil wealth.

Republicans stand for nothing, they have no principles or anything. They are just cynically in it for the money and power. Its so disgusting and the fact that people still defend this behaviour is dooming

[draynay]

Arguments like that are not had to convince the other side. They exist to influence the audience that does not participate.

Our millions of lurkers

[Venarik]

Our millions of lurkers

As a lurker, I appreciate people taking the time to dissect misinformation even if it gets a little redundant when a bunch of people respond at once to the same post.

Also as a lurker, I appreciate mass marine strats.