Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Tech614]

I am going to screenshot this in case you delete cuz I cant believe you said this lol. Using hospitals for military purposes is a war crime full stop.

Nobody actually cares what you of all people screenshot. The entire palestine thread is full of you defending war crimes.

[NED funded]

Nobody actually cares what you of all people screenshot. The entire palestine thread is full of you defending war crimes.

ok 10chars

[Mayhem]

Nobody actually cares what you of all people screenshot. The entire palestine thread is full of you defending war crimes.

She and tehdang are gold medalists in the Hypocrite Olympics.

[Captain N]

She and tehdang are gold medalists in the Hypocrite Olympics.

I think we need a term on this forum for hypocrites who defend war crimes and bigotry. I was thinking Dang Nedophiles?

[Fugus]

The whole thing about peaceful vs violent protests is kinda a double edged sword.

Peaceful protests only work with the implied threat of violence if pushed. MLKs protests only worked because of the alternative of Malcom Xs protests as an alternative.

To paraphrase a quote I heard before, a peaceful protest only works with an implied threat of violence. If you aren’t capable of that violence then you aren’t peaceful, you are harmless and will be ignored and crushed as such.

[OwenBurton]

Kind of the point for Trump, jobs numbers are abysmal, economy and the dollar are tanking, liberation day 3.0 electric boogaloo hits in a few weeks with more tariffs not to mention the Epstein files which Trump is a central part of. That's his main weapon distract from scandal with a bigger scandal and the media fall for it every time.

Illegal immigration has always been a very sensitive and complex issue. It must be said though, many Democratic administrations too have deported many illegals and even refugees in the past. FDR even rejected Jewish refugees fleeing Axis persecution in Europe.

Clinton too had a generally tough stance on this issue when he was President:

In Bill Clinton’s 1995 State of the Union address to Congress, the 42nd president laid out a tough stance towards illegal aliens, claiming that they took jobs from legal residents and cost taxpayers money because of the public services they used. “We are a nation of immigrants,” Clinton said. “But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it.”

In 1996, Clinton signed two Republican-sponsored bills that had a significant effect on immigration policy. Together, the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 significantly increased the potential penalties faced by immigrants both with and without formal immigration status. The laws expanded the number of crimes for which immigrants (including green-card holders) could be deported, and made the deportation eligibility retroactive. The laws also allowed undocumented immigrants apprehended within 100 miles of the U.S. border to be deported without arguing their cases before an immigration judge.

And the previous administrations too actually deported a very high number of illegal immigrants in the United States, but just went about it a bit more quietly. The last administration's numbers actually (according to BBC) surpassed that of the 2019 one under the current President's first term.

And according to this website, his current deportations are in fact 10% below that of Biden. Even when he was Vice President under Obama, many people deported (allegedly) were likewise deported without any clear due process, although this point has been heavily debated, and what the current administration is doing is still likely far more ruthless.

That being said, it is still horrendous what is going on in California right now. A nation divided against itself cannot long stand like this. And the troops deployed there will cost $134 million, according to the Pentagon. How an administration can swiftly justify that as well as concurrently espouse DOGE, one cannot easily say.

I kind of support the protesters...at heart, I'm just not entirely sure if all their tactics/methods are necessarily the best or most effective ones, especially in today's already highly charged and polarized political atmosphere.

[Draco-Onis]

Illegal immigration has always been a very sensitive and complex issue. It must be said though, many Democratic administrations too have deported many illegals and even refugees in the past. FDR even rejected Jewish refugees fleeing Axis persecution in Europe.

And the previous administration too actually deported a very high number of illegal immigrants in the United States, but just went about it a bit more quietly. The last administration's numbers actually (according to BBC) surpassed that of the 2019 one under the current President's first term.

And according to this website, his current deportations are in fact 10% below that of Biden.

That being said, it is still horrendous what is going on in California right now. And the troops deployed there will cost $134 million, according to the Pentagon.

I kind of support the protesters...at heart, I'm just not entirely sure if all their tactics/methods are necessarily the best or most effective ones, especially in today's already highly charged and polarized political atmosphere.

You should keep in mind that the media always focuses on the destructive and the dramatic, the vast majority of the protests are peaceful and the life for everyone else is mostly undisturbed. There's also something else we in the United States have a ludicrously funded and armed police, there are so many layers of law enforcement it's insane. The notion that California cannot handle this is a joke, Trump is escalating everything as a distraction from his issues. There's a reason they aren't pulling this in red states.

[Smitzelplix]

Yup, you can simply look at the timeline to make that clear. Saturday was pretty tame, would probably have been a one day event because of a Pride event the next day.

Then, Trump opens his mouth, sends in the National Guard, and uses his rhetoric to put gas on the fire. As a result, it all got much more violent and heated. You can see a clear difference in the energy of Saturday vs. Sunday.

Any MAGA supporter that thinks Trump is "saving LA" or "de-escalating" has fallen hard for the propaganda. He's intentionally escalating to slowly consolidate more power, test how far he can go, and to stir more fear in his supporters.

The LAPD actually did release a statement on June 7th saying that the protests were peaceful, so what you're saying is absolutely true. I saw an account on Twitter that shared the screenshot of LAPD's news release where they talked about the protests.

https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1931897529949655122

[Endus]

I am going to screenshot this in case you delete cuz I cant believe you said this lol. Using hospitals for military purposes is a war crime full stop.

I'll ask you to kindly read that back over again and see where I ever defended or endorsed that tactic.

I did not.

I in fact, called it "evil", explicitly.

I simply noted there are worse evils. Like attacking a hospital without proper warning or allowing for evacuation of patients. Which is also a war crime.

You have serious issues with basic levels of reading comprehension. It's either that, or you're just being intentionally malicious and dishonest.

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Nobody actually cares what you of all people screenshot. The entire palestine thread is full of you defending war crimes.

To be clear; he quoted me saying that hiding inside a hospital was a 7/10 on the evil scale, as if that meant I was supporting that war crime. That's the "hot take" he thinks he got in that screenshot; me actually calling Hamas "evil", explicitly.

Should I not think Hamas is evil? He's just butthurt I think Israel is objectively worse, and frankly, the kill counts make that case for me objectively speaking just fine.

[Paetolus]

I am going to screenshot this in case you delete cuz I cant believe you said this lol. Using hospitals for military purposes is a war crime full stop.

Something that Israel has done a very bad job of working around. I'm not a Hamas defender by any means, but Israel has a responsibility to act with greater care regarding civilian lives. Just because Hamas does one thing (using a hospital), doesn't mean Israel has the right to commit a greater evil (bombing the hospital). One's a terrorist group, the other is a large and powerful nation. The standard is much higher for Israel, and if you look at raw numbers, they are far more destructive and have backwards policies that shouldn't exist if they cared at all about peace.

You should keep in mind that the media always focuses on the destructive and the dramatic, the vast majority of the protests are peaceful and the life for everyone else is mostly undisturbed. There's also something else we in the United States have a ludicrously funded and armed police, there are so many layers of law enforcement it's insane. The notion that California cannot handle this is a joke, Trump is escalating everything as a distraction from his issues. There's a reason they aren't pulling this in red states.

The media pulling this crap is a tale as old as time.



Outrage and hate sells after all.

[Breccia]

Hey remember this from 2020?

At a September 2020 town hall with George Stephanopoulos, the ABC News host questioned Trump on whether he delivered on his promise to “restore law and order” to the country.

“I have!” Trump insisted.

“Look, we have laws. We have to go by the laws,” Trump continued. “We can't move in the National Guard. I can call insurrection, but there's no reason to ever do that, even in a Portland case.”

“We can’t call in the National Guard unless we’re requested by a governor,” Trump explained.

Was Trump correct in 2020 saying he couldn't, or correct in 2025 when he just chose to do so? Unless a law changed, and feel free to cite if that's the case, Trump has contradicted Trump and cannot possibly be right both times.

P.S. Violent crime rose in 2020, including a spike of murders on Trump's watch. No, he did not bring law and order. He said he would but failed.

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The World Bank notes that Trump could lead the world to its worst growth in 60 years.

The global economy is projected to slow sharply this year as President Trump’s trade policy disrupts international commerce and increases economic uncertainty, the World Bank said on Tuesday in a report that underscores the toll of America’s trade war.

Despite the weakening outlook, the global economy is not expected to fall into a recession, the World Bank said. However, the trade tension is setting the stage for the weakest decade of growth since the 1960s. Economic development in many of the poorest parts of the world has come to a standstill.

Expansion in global output is forecast to slow to 2.3 percent in 2025 from 2.8 percent last year, the World Bank said in its Global Economic Prospects report. That is down from the 2.7 percent growth that it forecast in January.

“The world economy today is once more running into turbulence,” Indermit Gill, chief economist of the World Bank, wrote in the report. “Without a swift course correction, the harm to living standards could be deep.”

The World Bank estimates that if global tariff rates were cut in half, global growth would be 0.2 percentage points stronger over the next two years. It argues that developing countries, which have some of the highest tariffs in the world, should also lower their trade barriers to help stimulate economic growth.

“Economic cooperation is better than any of the alternatives — for all parties,” Mr. Gill said.

So that's two major articles from two major fiscal sources I've quoted today. In an interesting coincidence, these major sources posted these reports when China and the US are supposed to have trade talks. I strongly suspect that China will begin these talks by slapping these reports on the table and saying "You are objectively the problem, and everyone knows it, even you. Give us a good reason to stop you from destroying yourself."

Trump is objectively causing the damage here. The best news we've seen recently is "jobs report wasn't as bad as everyone expected".

[Edge-]

Trump is objectively causing the damage here. The best news we've seen recently is "jobs report wasn't as bad as everyone expected".

thanks to Donald and Republicans for leading us to the first quarter of negative GDP growth

[Breccia]

Our Ruling

Trump said Harvard University "refuse(s) to tell us" who its international students are.

To enroll international students, Harvard, and all other certified institutions must provide the U.S. government with detailed biographical information about every international student at its institution. That includes students’ names, addresses, contact information and details about their coursework.

Additionally, all international students must have student visas to enter the U.S. To get these, students who have enrolled in a government-certified university must apply via the State Department. That process also requires students to provide biographical and security information to the federal government.

We rate the statement False.

Our Ruling

Trump said that a House bill is "not changing Medicaid," only cutting "waste, fraud and abuse."

The legislation includes provisions that can improve the detection of beneficiaries who aren’t eligible for coverage.

But other provisions change Medicaid to align with Trump’s ideology and Republican priorities. The bill incentivizes states to stop using their own funds to cover people in the U.S. illegally; it requires people to work or do another approved activity to secure benefits; and it bans Medicaid payments to nonprofits such as Planned Parenthood, which provide abortions among other services.

Other changes aim to cut expenses, including the imposition of copays and a shorter window for retroactive coverage. Those provisions don’t specify how they’d cut waste, fraud or abuse.

We rate the statement False.

Our Ruling

Trump said declining cargo traffic at ports "means we lose less money. … When you say it's slowed down, that's a good thing."

Economists say a cargo slowdown at U.S. ports would result in job losses for people employed at ports, in transportation and at warehouses. Those employees’ economic losses will radiate outward into the economy, harming consumer spending and prompting layoffs in other sectors. Consumer goods shortages could result as well.

Trump’s assertion that spending less on imports means the U.S. loses less money also draws skepticism from economists. They say trade enables affordable consumer products, and that consumers will pay higher prices — and potentially buy less — if foreign imports are slashed, which would have spiraling effects through the economy.

We rate the statement False.

Our Ruling

Trump said the Digital Equity Act is a handout "based on race" and "illegal."

Organizations familiar with the law said they are unaware of any court ruling saying it’s illegal.

The law’s text outlines several groups that lawmakers sought to benefit. Racial minorities were one of those groups. The other groups may include racial minorities but not to the exclusion of other races: low-income households; people 60 and older; people incarcerated in non-federal facilities; veterans; people with disabilities; people with language barriers; and people in rural areas.

Trump’s statement distorts the legality and intent of the legislation.

We rate it False.

Our Ruling

Trump said, "We have now close to $10 trillion, think of that, $10 trillion" in investments. "We’re talking about essentially two months."

The White House has pointed to investment announcements totaling $5.1 trillion, including $2.1 trillion from companies and the rest from countries.

That’s at least $4.9 trillion short of Trump’s figure, and these announcements represent future spending, some of which is planned over four years, five years or a decade.

Experts said many of the dollar amounts are aspirational and that the investments announced might never be fully reached. They also said some of this investment would have occurred regardless of who was president.

We rate the statement False.

Our Ruling

Trump said, "If people come into our country illegally, there’s a different standard" for due process.

No, there fucking isn't.

All people in the U.S. regardless of their immigration status have due process rights, based on the U.S. Constitution and decades of court decisions. That applies whether they entered the U.S. legally or illegally.

For noncitizens, people’s due process protections vary based on their legal status or how long they’ve been in the U.S. Legal experts say despite due process variations, there are no exceptions to due process requirements for immigrants.

We rate Trump’s statement False.[/quote]

Our Ruling

Trump said, "We had a couple of states where gasoline was at $1.98 a gallon."

The lowest statewide price during the week Trump made this remark was $2.66.

April 23 data from GasBuddy.com shows that no gas station out of roughly 150,000 nationally sold gasoline for $1.98 per gallon.

While Trump said his policies are responsible for lowering gasoline prices nationally, there is no evidence of a significant uptick in drilling or production. Analysts credit a gasoline price drop during the past two weeks to a production increase by other countries, and concerns about Trump’s policies hurting the U.S. global and economic outlook.

We rate the statement False.

Now that last one is from April 22. Gas prices are down from one month ago-

"Yeah! Take that, objectively-correct fact checkers!"

By one cent. The article's objective evidence remains valid.

And of course:

Our Ruling

Trump said Abrego Garcia "had ‘MS-13’ on his knuckles tattooed. … He had ‘MS’ as clear as you can be. Not 'interpreted.’"

The figures M, S, 1 and 3 and the words below the symbols don’t appear in other photographs of Abrego Garcia’s hand, including one shared by the Salvadoran government.

Experts in MS-13 and other gangs say the pictorial tattoos shown are not typical designs for MS-13 or other gangs, and they say that several of those tattoos are commonly used by people unaffiliated with gangs.

We rate the statement Pants on Fire!

This is from the last month or so. Trump has nothing to, hold on, I found another one.

Our Ruling

Johnson said the tax reform bill is "not cutting SNAP."

Analyses by the Congressional Budget Office, the Urban Institute and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities show that millions of people could be removed from SNAP if the bill is enacted.

We rate Johnson’s claim False.

Trump has nothing to defend his own policies but objective, obvious lies. If you cannot defend "this policy is good and makes sense" with honesty, that's admission you know it's bad, but want to do it anyhow.

[Edge-]

I would be curious to see tehdang's respond to your post but I think he has you on ignore so we just can't get the bad faith explanation of why all the lies are actually totally fine or not that big of a deal and how it's basically no different than Biden or something.

[Breccia]

thanks to Donald and Republicans for leading us to the first quarter of negative GDP growth

The -0.3% GDP drop, as discussed, was at least partly due to a bunch of people making a bunch of imports because they thought Trump meant what he said about tariffs. Oops. But the glut means they won't do it twice, so the GDP is going to bounce back.

I did a quick look around, most projections are not stellar. The Atlanta FED is the highest at about 4.4%, way above most (most projections I found in the last week are sub-2), the outlier by far. Let's assume they're right, that the US barely imports anything because we're stocked up. That means 2025's first half would end up about 2%, which admittedly isn't horrifying, but not worth the cheering the Reich Wing will very likely do.

And that's if the very high outlier is correct. By any other projection, 2025 will be stagnant.

[LeGin v4]

I kind of support the protesters...at heart, I'm just not entirely sure if all their tactics/methods are necessarily the best or most effective ones, especially in today's already highly charged and polarized political atmosphere.

Your ambivalence is shared:

Only a third of Americans are backing the LA protests over the ICE raids, poll finds

Now, the question you have to ask yourself is: how would you feel if it were your 5 year old's birthday party that ICE chucked stun grenades into on the basis they thought you were a member of Tren de Aragua, but actually you weren't

Ambivalence is what is going to cost the US greatly

[NED funded]

Something that Israel has done a very bad job of working around. I'm not a Hamas defender by any means, but Israel has a responsibility to act with greater care regarding civilian lives. Just because Hamas does one thing (using a hospital), doesn't mean Israel has the right to commit a greater evil (bombing the hospital). One's a terrorist group, the other is a large and powerful nation. The standard is much higher for Israel, and if you look at raw numbers, they are far more destructive and have backwards policies that shouldn't exist if they cared at all about peace.



The media pulling this crap is a tale as old as time.



Outrage and hate sells after all.

Ofc. Endus is just unhinged on his statement abt the situation. Its a bit offtopic on the thread.

Also most of California is pretty chill rn. I was around for David Huerta's release cuz I saw it posted on social media and I was close by and things were pretty calm. The mood was pretty happy.

[Calfredd]

Ofc. Endus is just unhinged on his statement abt the situation. Its a bit offtopic on the thread.

Endus: Both sides are acting awful
You: Endus is quite unhinged!

[NED funded]

Endus: Both sides are acting awful
You: Endus is quite unhinged!

Using a hospital for military purposes and bombing the hospital when its used for military purposes are not both bad but difference in grade, there is no difference in morality like Endus is implying. If anything, you are allowed to bomb hospitals when they are used for military purposes. Using the hospital for military purposes is the worse action bc you are dragging a protected party into the conflict.

Hamas is equally if not more evil than Israel for doing that. This is not an absolution of Israels action but its worth pointing out when Endus has become so Hamas sympathetic that he thinks using hospitals for military purposes is just bad and not uniquely evil.

Again off topic, if you wanna chat we can go to the Israel thread or shoot me a dm.

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My pic of the rally when the release happened. People were excited and happy, no violence when I was around. I was passing by with a friend that came from the UK as we were heading south to San Diego so I didnt stick around that long. But I did meet cool people in a coffee shop that had attended some rallies.

[Paranoid Android]

TRUMP: Los Angeles would be burning today, just like their houses were burning months ago. Generations of Army heroes did not shed their blood on distant shores only to watch our country be destroyed by invasion ... as commander in chief, I will not let that happen

FORT BRAGG TROOPS: *Hurrrraa!*

People who think the military will be the bastion against fascism kills me. Also Libs who still dry hump the military is another.

If you watch more Trump is giving a political speech of shitting on Biden, last Commander in Chief. Hegseth did his WOKE shit. Shits on an American city and says he will liberate it.

Just sayin when it turns don't expect the heroes you were fed will save you.

Edit: Aaron Ruper giving you this. Media softening the Trump speech.

The NYT is working to sanewash this dark and bonkers Trump speech