Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

It's okay when Trump does it!

No, it isn't. And you're hiding behind a few scattered hypotheticals because you refuse to talk about Putin, refuse to talk about MASSIVE election fraud, refuse to talk about the economy, and refuse to talk about your child-fucking terrorist god.

You're a coward, a troll, and a traitor. Your lack of opinion is handwaved.

[tehdang]

Lemme stop you right there.

Let me know if you want to take up the political aspects to this.

Damn shame those reoffenders who you’re blaming gun crime on are allowed to have guns and/or the system is so lax with gun control that they can easily procure them with nonexistent oversight.

I'm well aware that lefties immediately go to gun control when the weapon used was a gun. Especially when they can't blame extremist right-wing rhetoric for the crime.

I should add here that "the system is so lax with gun control" is regularly criticized as "gun control laws are ineffective at keeping criminals from having guns, but are effective at hindering law-abiding citizens from obtaining guns."

Their suggestion isn’t that environmental pollutants are causing people to commit gun violence, their suggestion is that environmental pollutants are causing people to become idiots willing to vote for republicans who maintain a strict “do nothing” policy about gun violence.

I read "the madness Americans have," so please link me if the original poster elaborated.

You don’t have a problem ...

Let me know if you want to take up calling certain nations "3e hellhole[s]" versus Trump going with "shitholes" and how they are similar or different.

You support a Nazi Pedophile so fuck off MAGA Nazi.

I'm aware that many posters attended the "Fuck Off" school of political discussion (and I've been reliably informed that this is not flaming, non-constructive, or trolling). So I can only say that I don't personally consider this a constructive contribution, and I hope in future that you can present political arguments aimed outside of personal attacks on the individuals arguing it.

i'm not sure what the fuck this is supposed to mean but this is a weird lie

I don't know what this is supposed to mean, as you don't understand it but you do understand that it's a lie.

i'm sure you'd be shocked to know that hard-on-crime prosecutors often prosecute folks who go on to reoffend too

It's tough to reoffend while incarcerated. The backlash is a reaction to light sentences that put criminals back on the streets after each offense.

[Breccia]

Remember Michael Wolff?

During an interview with MeidasTouch, a Donald Trump biographer shared “Epstein’s explanation” for why the disgraced financier’s friendship with Trump ended.

The biographer, Michael Wolff, claimed the trouble stemmed from “a real estate betrayal,” and recalled a series of events he said that Epstein told him personally.

“In 2004, Epstein believed himself to be the high bidder on a piece of real estate in Palm Beach - a house,” Wolff said. “$36 million was his bid. He took his friend, Trump, to see the house, to advise him on how to move the swimming pool.”

After the meeting, Wolff claimed that Trump “went around Epstein’s back” to bid $40 million and secure the property for himself.

“Epstein, who was acquainted, in fact deeply involved, with Trump’s scattered finances, understood that he didn’t have $40 million to pay for this house,” Wolff said.

As a result, Epstein was “furious” and believed that Trump received the money from a Russian oligarch — the same Russian oligarch who would purchase the home from him for $95 million less than two years later, per Wolff’s account.

“This is all a red flag of money laundering,” he said.

Yep. The current evidence is that the split between Trump and Epstein had nothing to do with Trump being upset at child abuse...has he even hinted that?...or that Trump was an FBI informant. Trump used dirty Russian money to "kill steal" a property. That was the rift.

Trump was so selfish that not even a serial child sex slaver could stomach him.

"He doesn't have any proof!"

Well, the real estate records would clean that up in a hurry. Oh, and Wolff has over 100 hours of recordings of Epstein.

"He's lying!"

He's released portions.

"He's still lying! I refuse to believe there is proof just because someone says they have it!"

Where are Trump's taxes?

"Uh..."

Where was Trump's replacement for the ACA? Where was Infrastructure Week? Where was his plan to end the Ukraine war? You voted for Trump because he said he had all of those. So, clearly, you do believe it. You're just choosing to believe an objectively proven serial liar, not the prize-winning biographer that Trump sat down with for multiple interviews to be recorded on purpose.

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Let me know if

please link me

Let me know if

I hope in future that you can present

ARK ARK ARK *flaps flippers together*

Disingenuous posting. You, of all people, have no right to demand others provide a source. Shame on you, coward.

[Mayhem]

It's tough to reoffend while incarcerated. The backlash is a reaction to light sentences that put criminals back on the streets after each offense.

Yep, the problem is the US incarcerates not enough people. Do you ever use your brain?

[Edge-]

It's tough to reoffend while incarcerated. The backlash is a reaction to light sentences that put criminals back on the streets after each offense.

and if they reoffend after incarcerated? either way they're reoffending, so unless the solution is to lock folks up permanently then the recidivism problem remains the same because our approach to rehabilitation and criminal justice just ain't workin

[Kaleredar]

Let me know if you want to take up the political aspects to this.

There is no political aspect to it beyond what I said, which you ignored.

I'm well aware that lefties immediately go to gun control when the weapon used was a gun.

Let’s look at other countries that have gun crime like the US does.

Oh wait, none do. What’s the difference? Oh yeah, other countries have gun control!

Republicans will blame everything except the thing obviously causing the problem, as proven by the fact that every other country in the world just… doesn’t have this problem.

Especially when they can't blame extremist right-wing rhetoric for the crime.

Oh don’t worry that’s also to blame!

I read "the madness Americans have," so please link me if the original poster elaborated.

The madness of constantly re-electing republicans, the people thoroughly uninterested in doing anything about gun violence.

Let me know if you want to take up calling certain nations "3e hellhole[s]" versus Trump going with "shitholes" and how they are similar or different.

My post literally just explained how they’re different.

I'm aware that many posters attended the "Fuck Off" school of political discussion (and I've been reliably informed that this is not flaming, non-constructive, or trolling). So I can only say that I don't personally consider this a constructive contribution, and I hope in future that you can present political arguments aimed outside of personal attacks on the individuals arguing it.

Being a Nazi and being a pedo is politically relevant, in that both should be utterly disqualifying to anyone to hold political positions or have their opinions mean much of anything.

It's tough to reoffend while incarcerated. The backlash is a reaction to light sentences that put criminals back on the streets after each offense.

The US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. No first-world country would describe the US justice system as “lax” on anything but… you guessed it, white-collar crime.

So other countries have more lenient and forgiving legal systems and ALSO less gun violence. There’s your hypothesis out the window.

[Edge-]

Saying what everyone already knows - https://www.npr.org/2025/09/10/g-s1-...ng-retribution

The Trump administration launched a "campaign of retribution" against senior Federal Bureau of Investigation officials who refused to demonstrate loyalty to President Trump, firing them last month for improper political reasons before they could collect early retirement benefits, according to a new lawsuit from three senior FBI agents.

The lawsuit describes leaders inside the FBI and Justice Department as both partisan and inept—struggling to please the White House and willing to dismiss anyone who crossed President Trump. At his Senate confirmation hearing, FBI Director Kash Patel promised to protect employees from improper political removal. But once he arrived at the Bureau's headquarters, the lawsuit alleges, Patel deliberately chose to follow directives from the White House rather than federal law.

"His decision to do so degraded the country's national security by firing three of the FBI's most experienced operational leaders, each of them experts in preventing terrorism and reducing violent crime," the lawsuit said.

And I can already hear, "Who are these low-level employees who clearly have a political grudge?"

The three plaintiffs are among the most senior and lauded FBI agents to have worked at the Bureau in recent memory. Brian Driscoll won awards for bravery and valor and led hostage rescue teams before briefly serving as acting FBI director this year. Steven Jensen ran the Washington Field Office and managed some 2,000 employees working on national security and violent crime. Spencer Evans oversaw high-profile investigations including a Tesla cybertruck bombing outside a Trump hotel in Las Vegas this year, according to the lawsuit.

Oh...so some pretty upstanding folks.

The men allege their dismissals violated their Fifth Amendment right to due process and the First Amendment's guarantee to free association and free speech.

Lotta Republicans violating the Constitution lately. Many such examples.

The case marks the second time the Bureau has been sued by its own agents this year. All three men had served for two decades at the time of their dismissal. But they could not formally retire because they had not yet reached the age of 50.

Whoever could have imagine the most litigious and incompetent administration would face lawsuits from folks they keep illegally firing.

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The USCIS wants your voter data - name and last 4 digits of social - and won't say what they'll do with that data after they receive it - https://www.npr.org/2025/09/10/nx-s1...hip-data-trump

Tens of millions of voters have had their citizenship status and other information checked using a revamped tool offered by the Trump administration, even as many states — led by both Democrats and Republicans — are refusing or hesitating to use it because of outstanding questions about the system.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) says election officials have used the tool to check the information of more than 33 million voters — a striking portion of the American public, considering little information has been made public about the tool's accuracy or data security.

The latest update to the system, known as SAVE, took effect Aug. 15 and allows election officials to use just the last four digits of voters' Social Security numbers — along with names and dates of birth — to check if the voters are U.S. citizens, or if they have died.

...

"There's still uncertainty about what is happening, what happens to the data that are shared with USCIS," said Charles Stewart, a political science professor who directs the MIT Election Data and Science Lab. "I don't know if this means that the USCIS now has a depository of one-sixth of all [the country's] registered voters."

In recent months, several Republican-led states have brokered new agreements with USCIS to use SAVE, or announced the results of SAVE reviews. Ohio election officials will begin removing from their rolls thousands of inactive voters that SAVE identified as deceased. And Louisiana's secretary of state announced last week that officials identified 79 likely noncitizens who had voted in at least one election since the 1980s, after running nearly all of the state's 2.9 million registered voters through SAVE.

DHS is encouraging officials in other states to upload data to the system — even going so far as to make millions of dollars of grant money contingent on them using it.

So, bullying.

But USCIS did not respond to NPR's questions about what happens to the data states upload and who has access to it.

And officials in other GOP-led states have expressed caution about using the system.

Last month, North Carolina's Republican-controlled state election board did not take up an offer by USCIS to participate in a "soft launch" of the upgraded tool. Spokesperson Patrick Gannon told NPR in a statement that state officials are pursuing "agreements to ensure that proper safeguards would be in place to protect and secure the data, if a decision is ultimately made to use the service."

Mississippi Secretary of State Michael Watson, a Republican, told NPR the upgraded SAVE seemed like a "fantastic tool," but he still has questions before he can run his voter list through it to ensure it is authorized under state law.

"Where's that data going? And at the end of the day, is it stored? What are they going to do with it? Who has access? Is it shared?" Watson told NPR last month. "I don't want to do something that I don't necessarily have the ability to do without legislative authority. So we just want to be very clear on that before we move forward."

And even Republicans don't all seem to be entirely trusting of this most incompetent and corrupt administration in US history. Weirdly, correctly.

[alach]

One of MAGAs main preachers of hate has been shot.
How are we allowed to feel?
How would they feel if it was say, Mamdani?

[Edge-]

One of MAGAs main preachers of hate has been shot.
How are we allowed to feel?
How would they feel if it was say, Mamdani?

mamdani isn't a purveyor of fake news and spreader of hate so not really even a comparison

anyways my first thought is "oh, another false flag" but we'll see i guess.

there is no gun problem in this country btw, maybe just that there aren't enough guns.

[tehdang]

and if they reoffend after incarcerated?

You're getting quite ahead of yourself here! Are you yielding as true that soft-on-crime prosecutors reap justified backlash when violent criminals reoffend, and the public gets a look at their number of arrests, types of crimes, and plea agreements/sentences? Criminals remaining in prison and not free to reoffend against a non-incarcerated public is actually a primary goal here. I know you want to go off on tangents and what-ifs, but this should be established first.

Unless you really think citizens react the same way to light sentencing for violent crime as with heavy sentencing when viewing the victims and perpetrators of re-offense.

There is no political aspect to it beyond what I said, which you ignored.

Well, my post directly argues that the backdrop of persistent violent crime means that Trump bears few political consequences for actions like deploying the national guard in DC. You can dismiss or ignore that political aspect, but dismissing something out of hand means you aren't willing to entertain further discussion on it. Put another way, don't ignore what you're quoting if you want to discuss what you're quoting.

Let’s look at other countries that have gun crime like the US does.

Oh wait, none do. What’s the difference? Oh yeah, other countries have gun control!

Republicans will blame everything except the thing obviously causing the problem, as proven by the fact that every other country in the world just… doesn’t have this problem.

The country's had hundreds of millions of guns for decades. Unless you're seriously arguing that the Second Amendment must be repealed, and the Fourth Amendment so existing guns can be discovered and confiscated, then you're talking about gun control with existing levels of lawful gun ownership. When your own gun control laws are bad and ineffective, don't just argue that we need more ones without addressing why the last ones didn't work. Maybe repeal two bad gun control laws for each new one you want, so that we know you want gun control instead of gun confiscation and indifference to lawful gun purchase and carry.

The madness of constantly re-electing republicans, the people thoroughly uninterested in doing anything about gun violence.

If you have a better idea of what the original poster meant by madness, just post the link.

My post literally just explained how they’re different.

I asked a different person if he meant to echo Trump's comment, and you posted about "you don't have a problem..." like I stated that I had a problem with it. I did not. Let me link the post so you can respond to what I wrote, not what you thought you read: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post54765377

Being a Nazi and being a pedo is politically relevant, in that both should be utterly disqualifying to anyone to hold political positions or have their opinions mean much of anything.

I recommend ignoring people when you think they're Nazis or pedos, since you've said it makes their opinions not "mean much of anything." We don't need your future of political debate where Person A goes MAGA Nazi and Person B goes groomer pedo and you tell yourself that the usefulness of each's political opinion is enhanced by the personal insults.

[Edge-]

You're getting quite ahead of yourself here!

i see we don't want to address the underlying issue because that, unsurprisingly, would be disastrous to your argument

anyways, i'm glad you think the national guardsmen and women in dc who are mowing lawns and picking up trash are really doing a lot to stop crime. it's a weird thing to think but conservatives haven't seemed interested in reality in many years

[alach]

mamdani isn't a purveyor of fake news and spreader of hate so not really even a comparison

anyways my first thought is "oh, another false flag" but we'll see i guess.

there is no gun problem in this country btw, maybe just that there aren't enough guns.

Yeah I just have a really hard time thinking of a left-wing equivalent of Kirk, despite trump calling us all dangerous lunatics, so I just picked a popular figure around the same age (?) for comparison.
Was rather lazy, I admit. Either way, thoughts and prayers and by your own Bible Mr Kirk, I hope the depths of hell are comfortable enough for you.

[Edge-]

Yeah I just have a really hard time thinking of a left-wing equivalent of Kirk, despite trump calling us all dangerous lunatics, so I just picked a popular figure around the same age (?) for comparison.
Was rather lazy, I admit. Either way, thoughts and prayers and by your own Bible Mr Kirk, I hope the depths of hell are comfortable enough for you.

well, apparently (just catching updates) it was in fact a fatal shot

sucks, but thoughts and prayers for the continued inaction over the epidemic of gun violence and the increase in political violence we've seen under donald trump

Edit: https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-kir...ndment-1793113

I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe.

Charlie Kirk - 2023

[tehdang]

anyways, i'm glad you think the national guardsmen and women in dc who are mowing lawns and picking up trash are really doing a lot to stop crime. it's a weird thing to think but conservatives haven't seemed interested in reality in many years

I thought it was accepted that DC crime fell, and the real argument was that we just can't keep federal resources on the streets in perpetuity. You really expect me to believe that the National Guardsmen were basically mowing lawns and picking up trash, and the steep drops in violent crime, robbery, and burglary were incidental to the deployment? I think you're better off criticizing federal involvement as temporary measures, and letting the significant drops in crime be due to the obvious changes in DC during that period.

Heck, you're in disagreement with Democratic DC Mayor Bowser, who said the federal presence led to fewer crimes. Maybe you should phone up her office and tell her about the lawns and trash.

[Bwgmon]

mamdani isn't a purveyor of fake news and spreader of hate so not really even a comparison

anyways my first thought is "oh, another false flag" but we'll see i guess.

there is no gun problem in this country btw, maybe just that there aren't enough guns.

From what I understand, there's a bit of... I don't know if I'd say 'irony,' involved with the event. The victim has taken a "a few gun deaths is worth it for the Second Amendment" stances in the past, and I hear they were downplaying gun violence when it happened.

On top of that, it sounds like they were also front-and-center in the "we need to move on from Epstein" stuff, and the suspect in custody appears to be an older white dude, sounds like they're conservative too, so that might be part of the motive, but I guess time will tell on that end.

[Edge-]

I thought it was accepted that DC crime fell, and the real argument was that we just can't keep federal resources on the streets in perpetuity. You really expect me to believe that the National Guardsmen were basically mowing lawns and picking up trash, and the steep drops in violent crime, robbery, and burglary were incidental to the deployment? I think you're better off criticizing federal involvement as temporary measures, and letting the significant drops in crime be due to the obvious changes in DC during that period.

Heck, you're in disagreement with Democratic DC Mayor Bowser, who said the federal presence led to fewer crimes. Maybe you should phone up her office and tell her about the lawns and trash.

so do you propose permanent guard deployments in all major cities?

i'm unsure a short three-week look is exactly indicative of a sustainable policy plan

[fwc577]

Let's just look at intentional homicide rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate
These are all per 100,000 inhabitants. I'll include the year, since these aren't always from the same year.

UK: 1.148 (2021)
Norway: 0.725 (2023)
Japan: 0.233 (2022)
Israel: 1.626 (2022)
Canada: 2.273 (2022)

Yes, Canada's is relatively high. However, let's get to the USA;

USA: 5.763 (2023)

More than double Canada's, more than four times the UK's. The USA is a violent country, and has higher criminal violence rates than the rest of the developed world. That's just a statistical fact. It's higher than many developing countries. Sure, there are nations out there with bigger problems, but the only one of them that's a major global power is Russia. And they're not that much higher at 6.799.

Okay, you're right. There is something in the drinking water. Despite the fact we've got 340 million and water test kits are readily available in this country (I can literally order a dozen different brands that will be delivered to my house by tomorrow morning).

It's the water.

Things like gun culture and socio-economic disparities, poor mental health control. That has nothing to do with it.

It's the water.

How about you get some fucking context and not be fucking obtuse? And if you want to be fucking obtuse, shut your fucking mouth and keep it to yourself or you can join the block list with the likes of Tehdang and Gorsameth so I don't need to read stupid fucking drivel.

[Aphelios]

Did you see a peace loving democrat blew off Charlie Kirk’s head? @Endus the violence you love?

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Infracted.

[tehdang]

One of MAGAs main preachers of hate has been shot.
How are we allowed to feel?
How would they feel if it was say, Mamdani?

I recommend you universally condemn political violence, and stow the "MAGAs main preachers of hate" if you think a similar thing shouldn't be said if it was Mamdani. The measure you use is the measure you recommend.

[Edge-]

I recommend you universally condemn political violence, and stow the "MAGAs main preachers of hate" if you think a similar thing shouldn't be said if it was Mamdani. The measure you use is the measure you recommend.

it would be said if it was mamdani lol, of course it would be said

just see the lack of any serious concern from republicans after the political assassinations of democrats in Minnesota

but of course you'd rather clutch pearls than acknowledge that liberals are just, finally, treating republicans like they've treated liberals