Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Darththeo]

There are known risks with almost every over-the-counter medication when used incorrectly/not as directed. That's not really saying much.

Yeah, I know it isn't saying much at all; but that's not what the people behind Trump care about.

They want people "afraid" of things that are nothing to be afraid of because it allows them to have a big bad shadowman they are fighting. I had an anti-vaxxer get mad at me because I told them that anti-vaxxers aren't going to be remembered as the last bastion of freedom like they think they are. People just can't accept we understand something more than we did 50 years ago.

[Elder Millennial]

That press conference gave me 'tism, and Hep B...and herpes...and a lobotomy.

We truly live in the absolute dumbest fucking timeline.

[Endus]

You can't cure autism or ADHD any more than you can cure being short or being born with webbed fingers.

It's worse. You can surgically correct both of those things; webbed fingers are pretty simple (cut and stitch up), and even being short there are therapies where you cut leg bones and put in metal "extenders", usually with a matrix for the new bone to grow into, and then every so often, you go back and ratchet up the extenders another half-inch or whatever, and keep that up a few years.

You can't do that with autism or ADHD. There's no identified correctable "problem". They're packages of still-poorly-understood symptoms/systems whose behaviour can be considered "disordered" in certain contexts, but it's not like there's a bit of brain you can snip to "fix" them. Current treatments don't "correct" them, they assuage disordered symptoms that allow, in combination with behavioural therapies, a less-disordered lifestyle. It's management, not a cure.

It is not a bug but a feature that evolution developed and that was probably beneficial at some point in our past.

This is so poorly misrepresented. Take ADHD, which I have way more familiarity with as I have it myself. Current estimates are that, if we could go back to our evolutionary origins, stone-age small-group dynamics, then having people whose attention was constantly jumping around would be good for maintaining awareness of your surroundings and potential risk factors, and being able to hyperfocus would be excellent for stress circumstances. ADHD dynamics would have made for excellent hunters; wide awareness that can narrow down when a target's located. It would have been an evolutionary advantage. Why isn't it the norm? Because variety in your group makes for better adaptibility. For specialization. ADHD is a "disorder" today because it doesn't line up well with the standardized 9-5 daily grind lifestyle. This is very recent in development; ADHD has a few precursor moments where some researchers raised questions/concerns about what seem to have been such systems prior, but it was really the mid-20th Century where it became enough of an issue to be explored and defined.

ADHD can have serious benefits. Anyone with ADHD who's suffered because of their lack of focus can likely tell stories about how you struggled to focus on an essay until you reached the Tipping Point on a deadline and VROOOM you slip into Hyperfocus and write four days of essay writing in 12 hours where you only break to pee if you're literally in pain and food isn't a consideration until you're done.

Speaking from personal experience. Before my diagnosis in my mid-20s, this was my intentional, practiced coping technique; a very unhealthy way of forcing hyperfocus, even if I didn't understand what I was doing or why. I was generally only able to kick this off from the adrenaline rush of it being 4pm the day before it's due, so yes, I'm talking about finishing it up at like 4am before crashing. Hyperfocus is crazy if you've never experienced it, and SUPER useful, but it's not a simple switch you can just flip. If it were, it would be a superpower, not a disorder. You've also got the problem of misaligned hyperfocus; sometimes it kicks in on something pointless and you legitimately can't will yourself to stop.


If anyone here's on the spectrum, maybe you can give a better/more-personal perspective on the autism spectrum in history, but I've heard a lot of people suggest there were likely a lot of "oh, that there's Jeb, he don't talk much but he's banger at mowing hay. Jeb'll be out there sunrise to sunset, swingin' that scythe, won't even stop to eat." The symptoms just didn't qualify as "disordered" for a lot of human history, most likely, and the more-extreme iterations were probably (horrifyingly) treated as madness or possession or the like.

[Rasulis]

I can't link but it's all Aaron Rupar s post in Blueksky and twitter.

Trump was just giving rando medical opinions and instructions. Just the dumbest shit from his typical word salad and no scientific evidence.

Always impressive of what we use to expect from our elected leader.

Here are some not rando opinions.

Trump blames Tylenol for autism. Science doesn't back him up

The basis of the government decision.

During the press conference, officials pointed to a study done by Harvard University and other researchers that found that women who reported taking acetaminophen while they were pregnant seemed to be slightly more likely to have a child who was later diagnosed with autism.

What did the scientist that actually participated in the study say.

One of the researchers on that study was Ann Bauer, an epidemiologist at the University of Massachusetts. Bauer said she thinks pregnant women should be told about a possible risk from acetaminophen. But the researcher also was worried that it might be too soon to have the federal government offering guidance on its use.

"I'm a little concerned about how this message is going to come because I think they may be jumping the gun," Bauer said before the announcement was made. "I think those of us in the research community would like to see stronger evidence."

Are there more issues with the government hasty decisions? Lots.

Diagnoses of autism have risen over the past two decades, though use of acetaminophen has not — remaining largely steady over that time. The increase in diagnoses is often attributed to a broadened definition of autism, with changes in the diagnostic criteria, as well as increased awareness and screening, but Kennedy dismissed those explanations as a "canard."

Many physicians and autism advocacy groups said they opposed the administration's stance.

"It is highly unsettling that our federal health agencies are willing to make an announcement that will affect the health and well-being of millions of people without the backing of reliable data," Steven J. Fleischman, MD, president of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said in a written statement.

Even the notice about acetaminophen issued to physicians by the Food and Drug Administration pointed out that a possible link to autism was an area of ongoing scientific debate, and said that "while an association between acetaminophen and autism has been described in many studies, a causal relationship has not been established and there are contrary studies in the scientific literature."

Specifically, the Food and Drug Administration, as well as the agency that sets policy for Medicare and Medicaid, pledged to change the indication on a medication called leucovorin as a treatment for autism, despite scant evidence that this form of vitamin B has any effect.

In response to that change, the American Psychiatric Association issued a statement opposing the administration's suggestion that vaccines cause autism, adding that leucovorin (folinic acid) is not recommended to treat autism, adding "it will require many more years of research before we know if leucovorin is an appropriate treatment for individuals with autism."

Yeah. He was giving out rando medical advice.

"If you can't tough it out," President Trump said, limited use of acetaminophen might be necessary. But "ideally you don't take it at all," he said, in a rambling press conference that at times conflated vaccine and painkiller use, citing both unconfirmed rumors and personal suppositions that both might be harmful to women and babies.

"It looks like you're pumping it into a horse," Trump said of multiple vaccinations given to children. "The Amish, for example, have no autism," he said, despite research showing that autism does affect Amish communities, later adding that there are no cases of autism in Cuba, when in fact there are cases of autism there. He called on pregnant women to refrain from using the common painkiller, repeatedly saying "Don't take Tylenol."

"There's no downside," he maintained, although pregnant women are told to avoid other anti-fever drugs such as aspirin and ibuprofen, and fever can be dangerous in a pregnancy. The Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, which recommends using acetaminophen to treat fever and pain in pregnant women, says that untreated fever can cause grave harms such as miscarriage, birth defects or premature birth, especially early in a pregnancy.

Merck, maker of various vaccines including for measles, pneumonia and HPV, also responded, saying, "the recent statement that vaccines could be linked to autism is inconsistent with the extensive scientific studies that have been conducted over the past 25 years, which have consistently shown no link between vaccination and autism."

"Today's announcement risks taking us backwards," said Jackie Dilworth, a spokesperson for The Arc of the United States, a group representing people with developmental disabilities and their families. "Today's claims risk fueling stigma, misleading the public, and distracting from what families truly need," because they present unproven suppositions as fact, she said.

I have one additional comment. Women that take lots of acetaminophen to manage pain during pregnancy are more likely to have pre-existing conditions.

[alach]

With everything the Americans put in their body's, Tylenol is the best scapegoat they can come up? I expected worse from you RFK jr.

Seriously, Ive seen Beardmeatsfood in the States. Its disgusting.

Oh, and like it says in the article above me, trump and co. are once again taking a global issue and making it local. This only works on small minded and self-centered individuals.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The Tylenol thing is just another distraction.

[Dontrike]

Here are some not rando opinions.

Trump blames Tylenol for autism. Science doesn't back him up

It only gets worse as Trump says the "Amish have no autism."

[alach]

I love the picture from that quote. Two old, washed-up TV personalities telling women what they should do with their bodies, yet again.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Don't take tylenol.

Drink Bleach and snort ivermectin instead.

[For_The_Horde]

Don't take tylenol.

Drink Bleach and snort ivermectin instead.

No no, you inject the bleach. And you snort crushed up chloroquine. Ivermectin goes in a different hole, not sure which anymore.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

No no, you inject the bleach. And you snort crushed up chloroquine. Ivermectin goes in a different hole, not sure which anymore.

Hey thanks. You probably just saved my life. i was going to go and drink bleach like a damn fool.

[alach]

No no, you inject the bleach. And you snort crushed up chloroquine. Ivermectin goes in a different hole, not sure which anymore.

Ah right, the Dr. Oz version of the Stuntman Tequila shot. Quite popular, down in Tennessee way, I've heard.


*******



Not going to lie, I kind of feel a little bad for Disney in this whole mess. I feel like they have been battling the culture war against trump and his people for the last couple years almost alone while everyone else around them caves or forget any sort of principles. They were put in a tough place being threatened by Sinclair which probably owns more than 30 of the channels Kimmel is probably broadcast to.
People are constantly complaining about "woke" in Disney, and if trump gets his way, the only PoC or minorities left will be Don Cheadles voiceover in a Marvel anime.
I'm not saying what they did was right, I just wish some of that hatred Disney got, went to who was responsible and who really deserves it.
Mass cancelling Disney+ was just a huge favour to Maga.

[Flarelaine]

You can't cure autism or ADHD any more than you can cure being short or being born with webbed fingers.

It is not a bug but a feature that evolution developed and that was probably beneficial at some point in our past.

I find it beneficial as it is. Talking to people face to face is something I can mostly avoid or practice but I can't imagine living without the long-term memory capacity I have.

- - - Updated - - -

If anyone here's on the spectrum, maybe you can give a better/more-personal perspective on the autism spectrum in history, but I've heard a lot of people suggest there were likely a lot of "oh, that there's Jeb, he don't talk much but he's banger at mowing hay. Jeb'll be out there sunrise to sunset, swingin' that scythe, won't even stop to eat." The symptoms just didn't qualify as "disordered" for a lot of human history, most likely, and the more-extreme iterations were probably (horrifyingly) treated as madness or possession or the like.

Spectrum is a spectrum because it's different for everyone, but here's my two cents: I have difficulty dealing with people outside my normal circle. I have practiced for decades to expand this circle beyond family and to lessen stress for dealing with people outside it, but it's a journey. And my daughter has it worse, she locks up completely for anyone outside immediate family.

I like to use a Windows analogy: what social functions neurotypicals get as services in their operating system we have to install and run as applications.

In exchange, I get a decidedly good long-term memory, a probably above-average pattern recognition capability and the overwhelming urge to identify and categorize everyone and everything that I encounter.*

I suppose that the balance of these would have worked pretty fine in a "small groups of humans with everything a possible danger" environment, just like your ADHD example.


*The downside of the latter is an innate hostility to the concept of not everything and everyone being readily categorizable. Gender-ambiguous and trans folks, I'm looking at you. I had to work a lot on that.

[Cthulhu 2020]

More proof that Trump is governing via feels and flying by the seat of the pants:

White House announces H1-B visas will be 100k per year, reinforces multiple times in the same meeting that YES it is in fact $100k PER YEAR very emphatically.
The next day they walk it back and say H1-B visa is a one time payment of $100k
Now that it's been discovered that most of the doctors willing to practice in rural areas are H1-B visa holders, the White House is saying that doctors may be exempt from the H1-B visa fee.

Trump Always Chickens Out

[Gabriel]

I find it beneficial as it is. Talking to people face to face is something I can mostly avoid or practice but I can't imagine living without the long-term memory capacity I have.

ADHD has it's uses, but for example on the career path that I chose before I finally got diagnosed at the tender age of 30, ADHD is a gigantic hinderance.

It's all about finding the niche your own particular set on neurological features is the best suited for. Nature doesn't care either way lol.

[Darththeo]

It only gets worse as Trump says the "Amish have no autism."

I hate that people repeat this lie. The issue is that how they live makes it difficult to diagnose it.

"Every X community doesn't have Y" ignore that community generally doesn't care or unable to test or diagnose that thing.

[Breccia]

South Korea publicly declares Trump has made demands the country literally cannot afford.

Without a currency swap, if we were to withdraw $350 billion in the manner that the U.S. is demanding and to invest this all in cash in the U.S., South Korea would face a situation as it had in the 1997 financial crisis

The rest of the interview was basically "I'm sure Glorious Leader Trump deported all our workers and applies massive tariffs by accident. We are the best of friends. Nobody is bigger friend than Trump. Truly bigly. Truly yuge."

You can watch the video here.

"That's not the interview. That's Trump failing to pronounce acetaminophen."

Oh, whoopsie! What I meant to say is Trump Issues Warning Based on Unproven Link Between Tylenol and Autism

The briefing at the White House featured often unsubstantiated medical advice from Mr. Trump, reminiscent of his first term, when he encouraged Americans to try unproven treatments for Covid.

Trump on Monday repeatedly issued strong warnings that flew in the face of the recommendations of leading medical groups: “Don’t take Tylenol. Don’t take it. Fight like hell not to take it.” He urged pregnant women to “tough it out” when in pain, except in rare instances, such as a dangerously high fever.

Scientists have conducted research on a potential connection between acetaminophen and autism for years, but the studies have so far yielded inconclusive results. Mainstream medical groups quickly defended acetaminophen as a safe treatment for fever in pregnant women, although not to be used long-term.

"Ahah! So you're not supposed to take it! Trump was right!"

No.

Asked about the letter, outside experts said it did not change standard medical practice, which already advises minimizing the use of medications, including acetaminophen, during pregnancy.

“Doctors have always approached medications in pregnancy by using it only when indicated, lowest dose, for the shortest duration,” said Dr. Nathaniel DeNicola, an adviser to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists on environmental issues.

“That applies to Tylenol tomorrow the same as it does today, the same as it did yesterday. That is the standard of care: to only use medications when indicated during pregnancy and judiciously,” Dr. DeNicola said.

"But...but...the study! That one study that agreed with me one time!"

There are others, and better.

Many of the studies included in the new review “did not necessarily go to the greatest lengths to account for possible confounders,” Dr. Brian Lee, a professor of epidemiology at Drexel University, said, referring to other factors that might explain a potential link.

“And the biggest elephant in the room here,” he added, “is genetic confounding, because we know autism, A.D.H.D. and other neurodevelopmental disorders are highly heritable.”

In 2024, Dr. Lee was a co-author of a major study that analyzed the health records of 2.5 million children born in Sweden. While the study found a small positive association between women who used acetaminophen and the incidence of autism, A.D.H.D. and intellectual disability, that link disappeared after they did a subsequent analysis comparing siblings born to the same mothers.

The results of the sibling study indicated that the real cause could be maternal genetics, Dr. Lee said, not acetaminophen.

Back to vaccines.

"Why are we talking about vaccines? The issue is assy-to-melanin, Trump said so himself!"

Because I want everyone to remember who MAGA is taking medical advice from.

Dozens of studies over the last three decades have failed to find any link between vaccines and autism, and the consensus among scientists is that the idea has been debunked.

Mr. Trump mentioned that he and Mr. Kennedy had long discussed the possibility of a vaccine link. He also amplified Mr. Kennedy’s views, saying that the childhood immunization schedule “loads up” children with too many vaccines. Trump said, without evidence, that babies are being given as many as 80 different shots.

“It’s too much liquid, too many different things are going into that baby at too big a number,” Mr. Trump said.

The Food and Drug Administration was far more circumspect, issuing a letter to doctors on Monday that noted, accurately, that “a causal relationship has not been established” between acetaminophen and autism. It stated that the matter is “an ongoing area of scientific debate.”

The debate is "people who have no idea what they're talking about and have no evidence have made up their mind based on willful ignorance and conspiracy theories".

[Moralgy]

Destroying trust in the government to tell you if a medication helps or not to destroy the libs. I doubt we recover from this in my lifetime, cause fuck I aint trusting whats coming outta the government until every one of these people are replaced and people that actually go by what scientific consensus says are put into the positions.

[zorkuus]

Hey thanks. You probably just saved my life. i was going to go and drink bleach like a damn fool.

Hey, this isn't exact science. I'm sure consuming it the wrong way will still generate some effects.

[BigToast]

Oh no! I've taken so much ace...aceta...aca...Tylenol that I have to have so much autism.