Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Magistrate]

Doing so would make you would be a fool.

Trump is an issue but he isn’t THE issue. The people who voted Trump into office will still be there and waiting for another Trump to come along and the next one might not be so gullible and incompetent.

And so we are just a single election away from another Trump or worse which makes the USA a liability to the entire world so long as we have the power and influence we did.

Sorry, but so long as the Republican Party mindset exists under any name or window dressing and has the potential to get power, the USA can’t be trusted with power. And I say this as a US resident who actually lives here.

Counter point: a representative democracy bound by a living document which survives this has the potential for a massive power swing which allows said govt to evolve new defenses against this happening again.

Trump and his admin isn't the entirety of this fascism. It was built over nearly fifty years, maybe longer, I ckuding by the consent or lack of urgency by Dems. He's just the realization of the dream. And to your point we should count ourselves lucky he's an idiot, which may be the only silver lining.

It will take generations of leaders to move past this and evolve us into something more resilient. That is precisely what happened from the 1880s-1930s which held pretty strongly through the 50s.

I do agree that one more bad election could...really spell the end here for the near term. Maybe decades.

[Endus]

Optimistic? Perhaps. Delusional? Hardly. It's gonna take work, and it's unlikely to go exactly back to the way it was, but it's absurd to think it's broken forever. Foreign relations tend to mend pretty quickly when there's a change in leadership, because everyone typically recognizes it's in their best interest to work together.

They tend to mend quickly when there's systemic change. That's not on the forecast for the USA. You might elect Democrats next time (MIGHT), but in 4-8 years it'll be another uberfascist dickwad who's gonna burn every agreement down again. What Trump and his regime has demonstrated is that the USA, as a nation, cannot be trusted to hold to its own agreements. It can't even be trusted to not attack friendly nations on a whim. Not in the long term, not without serious political and cultural adjustment, and a single election cycle will not qualify as such.

If Kim Jong Un died and there was a change in leadership as a general took over, the world's not going to suddenly be willing to work with the DPRK. There would need to be a serious demonstration of major change. Same difference.

The USA is wildly unstable. When the world thought it was a bastion of stability. You can't veer the other way and say "Okay, it's all fixed now!"

[Paranoid Android]

They tend to mend quickly when there's systemic change. That's not on the forecast for the USA. You might elect Democrats next time (MIGHT), but in 4-8 years it'll be another uberfascist dickwad who's gonna burn every agreement down again. What Trump and his regime has demonstrated is that the USA, as a nation, cannot be trusted to hold to its own agreements. It can't even be trusted to not attack friendly nations on a whim. Not in the long term, not without serious political and cultural adjustment, and a single election cycle will not qualify as such.

If Kim Jong Un died and there was a change in leadership as a general took over, the world's not going to suddenly be willing to work with the DPRK. There would need to be a serious demonstration of major change. Same difference.

The USA is wildly unstable. When the world thought it was a bastion of stability. You can't veer the other way and say "Okay, it's all fixed now!"

Very much agree with this comment. I wanted to post this about the election discourse that was being discussed last week I believe.

For people who thought that turning out or lack of not voting for Harris would have killed the fascist movement in the US is a reach. You can easily conclude as you stated that in next 4-8 years we are facing the same problem.

Sure they wouldn't have their charismatic leader Trump, but rallying behind someone could happen or just the movement itself is too much and they use whoever as their leader. I know the counter is we would not be suffering thru Trump right now. True, but eventually we may get some sort of fascism. Always, oh btw, if Merrick Garland didn't wait 2 1/2 years Trump might have been in jail where all the fascist leaders who try to overthrow an election should be. Bravo Brazil!

[Mayhem]

They walk on thin ice because of their own fuck ups. Not that the US has helped but the way third way politics demolished social democracies in Europe after the financial crisis is because of Europe's own incompetence, not because of the US. The social issues are important but secondary to the economy.

Well, yes and no. The agenda they played into was due to how the US ran stuff internationally. All of this blows up now because the US consistently elects ever increasingly stupid and or evil republican presidents. Yes, because Europe also elects incompetent people especially on the right and far-right, but also no because they receive funding by US companies and therefore influence european politics in favor of the US.

It's lobbying, or bribes if you want to call it that. That takes always two.

[Nymrohd]

Well, yes and no. The agenda they played into was due to how the US ran stuff internationally. All of this blows up now because the US consistently elects ever increasingly stupid and or evil republican presidents. Yes, because Europe also elects incompetent people especially on the right and far-right, but also no because they receive funding by US companies and therefore influence european politics in favor of the US.

It's lobbying, or bribes if you want to call it that. That takes always two.

Plenty of European countries voted supposedly center left or center right parties for years (and I'd say on average in Europe, center-left more often than right). The reality is most of the center left parties were overtaken by their corporate centrists, gave lip service to the issues the working class faced with transforming economies, plundered the middle class to keep the wealthy from taking any losses. And predictably then the people abandoned said parties for right wing propagandists while center right parties chased the Overton window into bigotry and xenophobia. There are certainly bigoted people on both sides of the pond who always voted for conservative parties and were just waiting for an opportunity for more open fascism. But that doesn't get you a majority anywhere, not in Europe and not in the US.

We have our own rich in Europe to lobby for this shit, we didn't need US imports.

[Draco-Onis]

With the way Europe has been handling trump like a mother with her first child, of course they would welcome any sane person in charge and go back to status quo.
Hell even I would accept the USA back asoon as they got rid of that senile coot. It’s just easier then having to build new infrastructure and supply chains.

I think you aren't seeing the big picture, the way Europe is handling the US is that of containment while they are rushing to do what they were supposed to do decades ago. The entire world is making deals long term deals amongst themselves and re-arming, the US will always be a factor because of all the guns we have that's it. The process that Trump has started cannot be reversed and it's impossible to do so.

Trump has fundamentally changed the world order, destroyed international rules based order and shit all over US soft power. There's no undo button, no amount of charm, begging, money or weapons will get that back. They could have forgiven us electing Trump once but we did it twice nothing stops president Tucker Carlson or whatever republican nut job is next from doing the same thing as Trump.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, yes and no. The agenda they played into was due to how the US ran stuff internationally. All of this blows up now because the US consistently elects ever increasingly stupid and or evil republican presidents. Yes, because Europe also elects incompetent people especially on the right and far-right, but also no because they receive funding by US companies and therefore influence european politics in favor of the US.

It's lobbying, or bribes if you want to call it that. That takes always two.

The amount of corruption going on in the US puts third world countries to shame, we have always been corrupt we just wrapped that corruption in legality and technicalities. Heck it's not even subtle with Trump worse with his cabinet you have Tom Homan getting 50K in cash and pretty sure he ain't the only one getting his bread buttered.

[Endus]

They could have forgiven us electing Trump once but we did it twice nothing stops president Tucker Carlson or whatever republican nut job is next from doing the same thing as Trump.

I cannot emphasize enough that nobody gives a shit about the USA electing Trump. They give a shit that the USA has been belligerent and threatening towards its allies and abusive in its trade deals and engaged in outright murder and violence against those it saw as weak enough to kick without repercussion (Venezuela, primarily, here).

The USA did that. Not Trump. Trump may be POTUS, but the nation is behind him, and he represents the USA's interests and direction. This isn't about one guy throwing a ham sandwich at another guy across a table. It's about you as a country behaving badly and demonstrating that your word as a country is worthless. That the USA as a country can not be trusted, even by its closest allies.

Change your POTUS or what party controls all the reins of power and that doesn't mean anything to other countries. You're still the country that did all that. And it'll happen again when another election goes awry.

You can't keep using Trump as a scapegoat. He's not a single man who's responsible for all this. All the elected officials who either support Trump or have stood by and let this happen. All the voters who support Trump and his regime and aren't actively opposing it. The problem isn't Trump. The problem is America. Getting rid of Trump changes nothing meaningful, because he's not the source of the problem. He's just the figurehead for the problem. The problem is deep in the core of the United States itself as a country.

Trump is merely an expression of that rot, not the source of it. He's the black mold you see bleeding through the walls, but you're going to have to tear all that drywall out and replace or purify the studs and beams behind it where the mold is coming from if you want to solve the problem. Painting over it with another election is just a temporary delay and avoiding the actual issues.

[Draco-Onis]

I cannot emphasize enough that nobody gives a shit about the USA electing Trump. They give a shit that the USA has been belligerent and threatening towards its allies and abusive in its trade deals and engaged in outright murder and violence against those it saw as weak enough to kick without repercussion (Venezuela, primarily, here).

The USA did that. Not Trump. Trump may be POTUS, but the nation is behind him, and he represents the USA's interests and direction. This isn't about one guy throwing a ham sandwich at another guy across a table. It's about you as a country behaving badly and demonstrating that your word as a country is worthless. That the USA as a country can not be trusted, even by its closest allies.

Change your POTUS or what party controls all the reins of power and that doesn't mean anything to other countries. You're still the country that did all that. And it'll happen again when another election goes awry.

You can't keep using Trump as a scapegoat. He's not a single man who's responsible for all this. All the elected officials who either support Trump or have stood by and let this happen. All the voters who support Trump and his regime and aren't actively opposing it. The problem isn't Trump. The problem is America. Getting rid of Trump changes nothing meaningful, because he's not the source of the problem. He's just the figurehead for the problem. The problem is deep in the core of the United States itself as a country.

Trump is merely an expression of that rot, not the source of it. He's the black mold you see bleeding through the walls, but you're going to have to tear all that drywall out and replace or purify the studs and beams behind it where the mold is coming from if you want to solve the problem. Painting over it with another election is just a temporary delay and avoiding the actual issues.

I agree Trump is simply the culmination of everything the republican party has wanted to do in the world. The entire system is doing the destruction by the fact that they aren't stopping him. The congress, supreme court even the democratic party has all enabled this moment we are in now because they are all beholden to corporate power. The United States is effectively a corporate run state whose policies are to the whim of the highest bidder.

[Nymrohd]

Everything Trump did, Congress could have stopped if they wanted to. They did not. I am not saying they needed to impeach him, they could have just grabbed the purse string away and kept things from going crazy. The entire Republican party is complicit in every act of this administration and unless it is broken apart, chances are it will be in power again

[Draco-Onis]

in yet another episode of reality is putting satire to shame.

Middle-class Americans are selling their plasma to make ends meet

It’s a scene repeated by an estimated 200,000 people a day across the country as part of a multibillion-dollar business fueled by a growing number of Americans willing to trade their blood for money in an economy where many have seen their job prospects weaken, costs rise and savings dwindle. Despite data that shows a relatively stable economy, middle-class Americans say they have had to start selling their plasma over the past year to cover basic expenses, from medical bills to a winter coat for their child.

This article is obviously out of touch with reality because people aren't selling their blood for $60 because things are going so well.

[DarkTZeratul]

So one of the Republicans running for a congressional seat in Texas dropped out, and I think it's worth sharing his explanation why:
https://x.com/i/status/2023567437455646957

I am a day one Trump guy and from the first conversation I ever had about running for office the only thing that has mattered to me is my desire to serve by supporting the President and his agenda. President Trump has now made his wishes clear; therefore, I am suspending my campaign.

[Edge-]

So one of the Republicans running for a congressional seat in Texas dropped out, and I think it's worth sharing his explanation why:
https://x.com/i/status/2023567437455646957

gosh, he sure sounds a lot like a cult leader with total control over his cult!

anyways

remember how the administration tore down an exhibit to slavery in Philidelphia a while back?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...n-philadelphia

An exhibit about nine people enslaved by George Washington must be restored at his former home in Philadelphia after President Donald Trump's administration took it down last month, a federal judge ruled on Presidents Day, the federal holiday honoring Washington's legacy.

The city of Philadelphia sued in January after the National Park Service removed the explanatory panels from Independence National Historical Park, the site where George and Martha Washington lived with nine of their slaves in the 1790s, when Philadelphia was briefly the nation's capital.

The removal came in response to a Trump executive order "restoring truth and sanity to American history" at the nation's museums, parks and landmarks. It directed the Interior Department to ensure those sites do not display elements that "inappropriately disparage Americans past or living."

U.S. District Judge Cynthia Rufe ruled Monday that all materials must be restored in their original condition while a lawsuit challenging the removal's legality plays out. She prohibited Trump officials from installing replacements that explain the history differently.

Rufe, an appointee of Republican President George W. Bush, began her written order with a quote from George Orwell's dystopian novel "1984" and compared the Trump administration to the book's totalitarian regime called the Ministry of Truth, which revised historical records to align with its own narrative.

"As if the Ministry of Truth in George Orwell's 1984 now existed, with its motto 'Ignorance is Strength,' this Court is now asked to determine whether the federal government has the power it claims — to dissemble and disassemble historical truths when it has some domain over historical facts," Rufe wrote. "It does not."

She had warned Justice Department lawyers during a January hearing that they were making "dangerous" and "horrifying" statements when they said Trump officials can choose which parts of U.S. history to display at National Park Service sites.

Yeah, ordered to restore it and the judge, a W. Bush appointee, pointed out that the crowd that's cried about "1984!!!!!" for years are actually the ones engaging in the very behavior they accused others of.

Also because none of them understand the book because they haven't read it, and mostly haven't even watched (or understood) the movie

[Muzjhath]

Everything Trump did, Congress could have stopped if they wanted to. They did not. I am not saying they needed to impeach him, they could have just grabbed the purse string away and kept things from going crazy. The entire Republican party is complicit in every act of this administration and unless it is broken apart, chances are it will be in power again

This.
The GoP with the exception of one person is entirely behind Trump.

And the Democrats do minimal effort to opposite him.
(Where is the procedural gumming up of the works in the Senate at?)

[Twdft]

in yet another episode of reality is putting satire to shame.

Middle-class Americans are selling their plasma to make ends meet

How the hell are you middle class if you sell your blood "to get some extra money for toilet paper and pet food." ?

[Nymrohd]

How the hell are you middle class if you sell your blood "to get some extra money for toilet paper and pet food." ?

They are redefining what the middle class is. Working class would need to sell an actual organ by this standard.

[Mayhem]

Plenty of European countries voted supposedly center left or center right parties for years (and I'd say on average in Europe, center-left more often than right). The reality is most of the center left parties were overtaken by their corporate centrists, gave lip service to the issues the working class faced with transforming economies, plundered the middle class to keep the wealthy from taking any losses. And predictably then the people abandoned said parties for right wing propagandists while center right parties chased the Overton window into bigotry and xenophobia. There are certainly bigoted people on both sides of the pond who always voted for conservative parties and were just waiting for an opportunity for more open fascism. But that doesn't get you a majority anywhere, not in Europe and not in the US.

We have our own rich in Europe to lobby for this shit, we didn't need US imports.

We didn't need them, true, we did it anyway, especially with companies.

[Rasulis]

in yet another episode of reality is putting satire to shame.

Middle-class Americans are selling their plasma to make ends meet



This article is obviously out of touch with reality because people aren't selling their blood for $60 because things are going so well.

Some interesting observations in the article.

Researchers have found that when a new plasma center opens in a neighborhood, foot traffic at local grocery stores increases, interest in payday loans declines and crime goes down, an indication of the way money from plasma props up households’ finances for necessities.

That's news to me. I would not have associated plasma center with interest rate decline and crime reduction. Another interesting observation.

The looser rules in the U.S. have turned plasma into a significant export: America supplies 70% of the world’s plasma, shipping $6.2 billion worth overseas in 2024.

Seriously. Who would have thought.

Donors say that the amount companies pay varies throughout the year, apparently as demand ebbs and flows. Payments tend to go down in December, for instance, when there is an uptick in people wanting to make extra money around the holidays. When tax refunds start hitting bank accounts at the start of the year, the number of sellers tends to go down, so the payments appear to go up to draw people in, sellers said.

It’s a place she never would have expected to be two years ago, before losing her job, when she was living comfortably in a four-bedroom home with a pool in Scottsdale, Arizona, and vacationing in Tokyo. Now, she’s counting on the money from her plasma to pay this month’s electric bill. If she sells her plasma twice a week, she can make at least $400 a month.

The lack of social safety net in the US is disturbing.

[Draco-Onis]

That's news to me. I would not have associated plasma center with interest rate decline and crime reduction.

It's not really the plasma more like the $60-$80 every 2 days for the donations that are helping people pay for basic things. The facts are we have made a choice to turn millions of people into blood bags for rich corporations. We as a country cut child poverty in half during COVID but decided fuck those kids now it's above and beyond what it was because we especially republicans decided to cut school lunches to give tax cuts to the rich.

- - - Updated - - -

How the hell are you middle class if you sell your blood "to get some extra money for toilet paper and pet food." ?

The term middle class is now just a buzz word that is used by politicians because most people identify as middle class even when they are knee deep in debt barely getting by.

[Nymrohd]

The term middle class is now just a buzz word that is used by politicians because most people identify as middle class even when they are knee deep in debt barely getting by.

See, people identify as middle class because the type of work they do and the hours they put in would have made them middle class 20 years ago.

[DarkTZeratul]

And the Democrats do minimal effort to opposite him.
(Where is the procedural gumming up of the works in the Senate at?)

The makeup of the Senate is not conducive to it. McConnell was able to gum things up mostly by:
1. Having a 53-47 Republican majority during a Democratic presidency
2. Having a 50-50 technical minority, but with two Democrat defectors

What the Democrats have now is a 54-46 minority, under an administration that's largely finding (mostly questionably legal) ways to avoid going through Congress entirely. Their opportunities to gum up the works have been few and far between, though right now they're doing it by shutting down the government rather than continue funding DHS (and unlike in December, SNAP benefits aren't going to expire).