Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Tech614]

Their opportunities to gum up the works have been few and far between, though right now they're doing it by shutting down the government rather than continue funding DHS (and unlike in December, SNAP benefits aren't going to expire).

ICE is funded through 2028, so shutting down DHS isn't going to be some huge W for the dems. The all mostly voted for that funding through 2028 btw.

[DarkTZeratul]

ICE is funded through 2028, so shutting down DHS isn't going to be some huge W for the dems. The all mostly voted for that funding through 2028 btw.

They didn't, actually. That was the One Big Beautiful Bill, which passed on a 50-50 vote with Vance breaking the tie.

[Magistrate]

ICE is funded through 2028, so shutting down DHS isn't going to be some huge W for the dems. The all mostly voted for that funding through 2028 btw.

No Dems in the house or Senate voted for the BBBA.

[Tech614]

No Dems in the house or Senate voted for the BBBA.

They didn't, actually. That was the One Big Beautiful Bill, which passed on a 50-50 vote with Vance breaking the tie.

You're both right, my mistake. I thought it was funded during 2024 but my old man brain forgot Trump killed that bill only to give them the same funding later.

Same shit, performative bullshit. Also, 6 Dems voted to progress to a reconciliation which is the same thing as voting for it.

[Rasulis]

What drives US GDP? It used to be workers' wages. Not anymore. Corporate profit is now the main driving force behind US GDP. This is why the US economy, despite the rosy graphs, feels bleak to some people.

[Nymrohd]

What drives US GDP? It used to be workers' wages. Not anymore. Corporate profit is now the main driving force behind US GDP. This is why the US economy, despite the rosy graphs, feels bleak to some people.

You can see the deregulation happen in this graph.

[Fugus]

Counter point: a representative democracy bound by a living document which survives this has the potential for a massive power swing which allows said govt to evolve new defenses against this happening again.

Trump and his admin isn't the entirety of this fascism. It was built over nearly fifty years, maybe longer, I ckuding by the consent or lack of urgency by Dems. He's just the realization of the dream. And to your point we should count ourselves lucky he's an idiot, which may be the only silver lining.

It will take generations of leaders to move past this and evolve us into something more resilient. That is precisely what happened from the 1880s-1930s which held pretty strongly through the 50s.

I do agree that one more bad election could...really spell the end here for the near term. Maybe decades.

Except that what you are describing isn’t status quo. That is them changing and moving onward against what that status quo was prior.

I was talking about those in power just being willing to go back to the status quo again after Trump when it is proven it have gotten Trump there in the first place and they didn’t change the system to prevent another and give the voters more a say than the donors as those changes would also go against the status quo they are hoping to return to.

If the USA tries to return to status quo, then any allies that attempted to renormalize relations with that is a fool because they didn’t address what got Trump there in the first place and his incompetence is the main reason a third of the nation isn’t a full on Nazi already. The next Trump might actually be smart, competent and/of have some level of actual charisma.

[Draco-Onis]

Except that what you are describing isn’t status quo. That is them changing and moving onward against what that status quo was prior.

I was talking about those in power just being willing to go back to the status quo again after Trump when it is proven it have gotten Trump there in the first place and they didn’t change the system to prevent another and give the voters more a say than the donors as those changes would also go against the status quo they are hoping to return to.

If the USA tries to return to status quo, then any allies that attempted to renormalize relations with that is a fool because they didn’t address what got Trump there in the first place and his incompetence is the main reason a third of the nation isn’t a full on Nazi already. The next Trump might actually be smart, competent and/of have some level of actual charisma.

This cannot be said enough, the next Trump with brains will succeed. This country has been in the shitter since the 2008 financial crisis although we have taken rest stops the trajectory is clear. If we get a version of Trump that gives us a crumb of social safety like Medicare for all, Americans will not care if he goes full dictator because things are so awful for the average American.

[Fugus]

This cannot be said enough, the next Trump with brains will succeed. This country has been in the shitter since the 2008 financial crisis although we have taken rest stops the trajectory is clear. If we get a version of Trump that gives us a crumb of social safety like Medicare for all, Americans will not care if he goes full dictator because things are so awful for the average American.

Hate to say it, but kinda feel the same way. Most people aren’t politically inclined and all they know is that things feel worse to them no matter what without looking into the why of it.

You get someone who actually pushes for shit that helps them and gets it done, most will fall in line and will gladly look over the racist shit if it helps them, even if they oppose that at a personal level.

And Democrats have squandered so much just trying to play nice with them and avoiding actually doing stuff that would rock the boat unless they are doing it from a position they know it won’t pass.

A fake progressive who gave them universal healthcare or living wages would be popular as hell compared to democrats who pivot to the right rather than go for it and republicans telling them how we can’t afford the cheaper option and how the worse option isn’t actually the worse option.

The world needs to look at our decline and notice the causes to avoid those at the top selling out the middle class for the top as that is what got us here at this level.

[Tech614]

Hate to say it, but kinda feel the same way. Most people aren’t politically inclined and all they know is that things feel worse to them no matter what without looking into the why of it.

You get someone who actually pushes for shit that helps them and gets it done, most will fall in line and will gladly look over the racist shit if it helps them, even if they oppose that at a personal level.

And Democrats have squandered so much just trying to play nice with them and avoiding actually doing stuff that would rock the boat unless they are doing it from a position they know it won’t pass.

A fake progressive who gave them universal healthcare or living wages would be popular as hell compared to democrats who pivot to the right rather than go for it and republicans telling them how we can’t afford the cheaper option and how the worse option isn’t actually the worse option.

The world needs to look at our decline and notice the causes to avoid those at the top selling out the middle class for the top as that is what got us here at this level.

I have no doubt a majority of this country would become card carrying republicans for an authoritarian nazi like regime if they where given free healthcare and a UBI. History shows this all across the world, from nazi Germany to modern day China or Russia that a population will not rebel against atrocities if their quality of life improves.

So the dems better wake up to populism real quick. This threat is coming way sooner than most people think when you even have nazi billionaires like Elon Musk talking about work being optional in the near future. But the libs are once again making the mistake of not listening to what these far right psychos are saying.

With the AI bubble likely to cost millions and millions of jobs over the next few years the first of the 2 major parties that actually tries some extreme populist ideas like this it's a fucking wrap. It will be Reagan electoral maps for that party for the next decade after and by that point they will have passed and done so much shit that there will never be a going back if it's the republicans.

[Kaleredar]

I have no doubt a majority of this country would become card carrying republicans for an authoritarian nazi like regime if they where given free healthcare and a UBI. History shows this all across the world, from nazi Germany to modern day China or Russia that a population will not rebel against atrocities if their quality of life improves.

So the dems better wake up to populism real quick. This threat is coming way sooner than most people think when you even have nazi billionaires like Elon Musk talking about work being optional in the near future. But the libs are once again making the mistake of not listening to what these far right psychos are saying.

With the AI bubble likely to cost millions and millions of jobs over the next few years the first of the 2 major parties that actually tries some extreme populist ideas like this it's a fucking wrap. It will be Reagan electoral maps for that party for the next decade after and by that point they will have passed and done so much shit that there will never be a going back if it's the republicans.

If you can take solace in anything, it’s that in no world will republicans ever, ever offer a UBI or universal healthcare.

[Tech614]

If you can take solace in anything, it’s that in no world will republicans ever, ever offer a UBI or universal healthcare.

I'm not worried about current republicans, I'm worried about a smart nazi taking over the party because republicans have shown with Trump they will bow down and change if it gets them wins.

We already have Nazi fucks like Musk and Ellison talking about this to, so when the billionaires who will have to pay for it are talking about it you should pay attention. The threat is real.

[gondrin]

I'm not worried about current republicans, I'm worried about a smart nazi taking over the party because republicans have shown with Trump they will bow down and change if it gets them wins.

We already have Nazi fucks like Musk and Ellison talking about this to, so when the billionaires who will have to pay for it are talking about it you should pay attention. The threat is real.

Well, with Elon or Ellison, their version of UBI isn't just "Here is a stipend, spend it as you wish", it is more along the lines of "Here is company dollars, feel free to spend it at the company store. Oh, here is a house too. Just sign a contract. Don't worry about the fine details."

Because that is what they want, serfs. Slaves in all but name only. Hell, one of the reasons why Musk wants to go to Mars is because he can literally setup his own serfdom and not have to worry about those pesky "laws and regulations" that he complains about. He is a literal real life Ted Faro, down to what he literally wants to do with things and how he views everything.

[s_bushido]

a smart nazi

Do you have any evidence that such a thing exists?

The only way something like "Republicans getting behind UBI and healthcare" happens is if you start seeing the heads of the billionaire leeches on spikes in the streets. Metaphorically or literally. And I'd be surprised if we're less than a decade out from the American populace as a whole starting to figure out that that's what needs to fucking happen.

[gondrin]

Do you have any evidence that such a thing exists?

The only way something like "Republicans getting behind UBI and healthcare" happens is if you start seeing the heads of the billionaire leeches on spikes in the streets. Metaphorically or literally. And I'd be surprised if we're less than a decade out from the American populace as a whole starting to figure out that that's what needs to fucking happen.

I mean, the last very rich person that got killed, there was a nationwide manhunt that literally took far more resources than it should have. And the guy was perp walked with 15 - 20 armed officers like he was the worlds most dangerous man.

[Kaleredar]

I'm not worried about current republicans, I'm worried about a smart nazi taking over the party because republicans have shown with Trump they will bow down and change if it gets them wins.

We already have Nazi fucks like Musk and Ellison talking about this to, so when the billionaires who will have to pay for it are talking about it you should pay attention. The threat is real.

Where exactly does the wealth required to fund UBI and universal healthcare come from in this equation?

Because you CAN get that by raising taxes on the uber wealthy, as progressives suggest.

But that’s not what the core of the Republican Party is about. That’s not what the rich people like Musk support it for. Hell, that’s pretty much anathema to the rich.

The Republican mantra lo these past 20 years of politics has been and continues to be “America would go back to being great if not for all of those taxes and annoying minorities taking all your money!” which allows them to slash taxes on the uber wealthy while keeping the dumb poor rubes angry enough to not notice them systematically disassembling all of the programs that were taken for granted and lining their own pockets.

Somehow the “you’ll get free money and free healthcare” coming from Republican mouths doesn’t seem like it’ll fly. Those are huge corporate interests you’d have to dissolve, and they’ve got their own bevy of lobbyists serving their own uber-wealthy that would do their own bribing to preserve it.

[Tech614]

Well, with Elon or Ellison, their version of UBI isn't just "Here is a stipend, spend it as you wish", it is more along the lines of "Here is company dollars, feel free to spend it at the company store. Oh, here is a house too. Just sign a contract. Don't worry about the fine details."

And if their company store is providing the vast majority of what a person wants the average american isn't going to fight against this. Not sure what you don't understand about this.

Populations are very easy to control if you simply give them cozy lives. The minority who will wake up against it won't be enough to stop it.

- - - Updated - - -

Somehow the “you’ll get free money and free healthcare” coming from Republican mouths doesn’t seem like it’ll fly. Those are huge corporate interests you’d have to dissolve, and they’ve got their own bevy of lobbyists serving their own uber-wealthy that would do their own bribing to preserve it.

The corporate interests are in selling their shit and making money. You can't sell your shit in a hellscape where AI has eliminated a majority of white collar jobs and there simply isn't enough blue collar jobs or walmarts or amazon fulfillment centers to hire all these unemployed people. If people have no money they can't buy shit, which is why these billinaires are already prepping for this future. Their next goal for wealth acquirement will be for them all being taxed equally but the more powerful ones owning more and thus getting more of the pie distributed. They're about all out of little guys to eat, they have to start eating each other at some point.

Again, whatever the fuck republicans are saying right now is irrelevant. Pay attention to what the money is saying.

[gondrin]

And if their company store is providing the vast majority of what a person wants the average american isn't going to fight against this. Not sure what you don't understand about this.

Populations are very easy to control if you simply give them cozy lives. The minority who will wake up against it won't be enough to stop it.

I understand it perfectly. Hell, it is the backstory to many of a dystopian world.

There are those that would go along with it. Until the day they had to choose between being forced to work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week and losing their home and ability to buy anything because they got fired for ever increasing demands.

Because that is what Musk will bring back. The notion that he can control your life pretty much down to the detail because, well, he could under those contracts much like the slave owners and robber barons of the past. And under current law(not going to get into the discussion about current law environment), that would be illegal.

[Muzjhath]

The makeup of the Senate is not conducive to it. McConnell was able to gum things up mostly by:
1. Having a 53-47 Republican majority during a Democratic presidency
2. Having a 50-50 technical minority, but with two Democrat defectors

What the Democrats have now is a 54-46 minority, under an administration that's largely finding (mostly questionably legal) ways to avoid going through Congress entirely. Their opportunities to gum up the works have been few and far between, though right now they're doing it by shutting down the government rather than continue funding DHS (and unlike in December, SNAP benefits aren't going to expire).

And they can make every vote take 15 minutes minimum.

Remove general consent from the proceedings and force them to read every bill and amendment.

[Kaleredar]

And if their company store is providing the vast majority of what a person wants the average american isn't going to fight against this. Not sure what you don't understand about this.

Populations are very easy to control if you simply give them cozy lives. The minority who will wake up against it won't be enough to stop it.

- - - Updated - - -



The corporate interests are in selling their shit and making money. You can't sell your shit in a hellscape where AI has eliminated a majority of white collar jobs and there simply isn't enough blue collar jobs or walmarts or amazon fulfillment centers to hire all these unemployed people. If people have no money they can't buy shit, which is why these billinaires are already prepping for this future. Their next goal for wealth acquirement will be for them all being taxed equally but the more powerful ones owning more and thus getting more of the pie distributed. They're about all out of little guys to eat, they have to start eating each other at some point.

Again, whatever the fuck republicans are saying right now is irrelevant. Pay attention to what the money is saying.

Frankly I think they utterly lack the actual intelligence and sense of focus or unity to pull that off. Not saying they won’t try mind you, but they aren’t pulling for a “new world order” because of some grander twisted egalitarian vision. They’re not even doing it “for the rich people,” they’re doing it for themselves, as individuals. Which ultimately makes them each others enemies. No one ever taught the nepo babies to share.