Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[arandomuser]

Just think about how evil president trump is, the reason he wont use the NDPA to get NY the medical equipment he needs is because the state probably wont contribute to his re election in 2020.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...740b71065ac7e5

this is why we need to get rid of the electoral college.

"Gov. Andrew Cuomo said New York's greatest critical need is ventilators to treat "people who will have acute needs" and those "under respiratory distress" from coronavirus.

He said the state has procured 7,000, but needs at a minimum another 30,000 — and he needs them in 14 days. Ventilators will "make the difference between life and death" for some patients, Cuomo said.

He said New York is "scouring the globe" for ventilators and has resorted to trying experimental procedure where they split the ventilators between two patients because "we have no alternative."

Cuomo said the only way we can obtain these ventilators is through the federal government. He went on to criticize President Trump for not enacting the Defense Production Act to ramp up the number of ventilators that can be made available to New York."

[Orange Joe]

No I think 25% of the nation becoming unemployed at best if not worse is worse than 2 to 4% dying yes.

No, cause that 25% can get another job. That 2-4% can't come back to life.

unemployed isn't a permanent status. Dead is permanent.

[arandomuser]

No I think 25% of the nation becoming unemployed at best if not worse is worse than 2 to 4% dying yes.

wrong, the government can print money to help people unemployed ( yes a little bit of socialism)just like they can for corporations, but they cant bring back dead people, as fry stated

[Thekri]

If the choice was take the money and avoid being burned over 50% of your body or saving grandma but being severely scared over it I for one know my Grandma would say take the money but that's my grandmother.

Adding to answer something I missed. No this will not kill everyone or end the world, but the ramifications of the actions we take will either completely change the world in many ways. Some of us want to get back to normal and accept there will be loss of life its just the speed and the level of loss of life people are willing to accept.

The price is up to 16 million Americans and 150 million globally. We are talking about the sort of numbers that usually die in a world war. That is a fuckload of people to write off because you want to sit down to eat your Big Mac again.

This is exactly the sort of entitled bullshit that I would expect from people that have no sense of of scale or cost. The moment they are inconvenienced they start talking about killing bank employees, and writing off tens of millions of deaths to go back to "Normal". It is cowardly, immoral, and fundamentally ignorant.

The logisitics of this are a known quantity, if we don't take strict measures to slow the spread of the disease, then you have millions of people getting sick at the same time, and we don't have enough medical capacity to take care of that many people in addition to all the usual sicknesses, injuries, and births that are still going on. So millions of people will be sick without access to medical care that could easily save them, and they will die.

On the other hand if we stop rushing, spread this out over 4-5 months, then the same number might get sick, but they won't all be sick at the same time, so they can all get medical care. We can have the same number of cases, but a tiny fraction of the number of deaths. That 2% death rate people keep quoting is only with available medical care, without medical care, that number is way higher. It is probably like 8% or so with absolutely no medical care, which thankfully hasn't occurred yet anywhere. Many people are only surviving these because they have access to ventilators, drugs, and safe places to recover.

[kaelleria]

I wish we had someone remotely competent in the WH... like Cuomo or any of the other blue state governors that have been taking this seriously.

Look at the difference between Cuomo's pressers and the WH. It's night and day.

- - - Updated - - -

Also fuck anyone who believe's my grandmother isn't worth shutting down the economy. Everyone has someone who will be affected.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Bullshit. I just covered this earlier. During the great depressions mortality rates went down not up.

Really hard to compare what happened almost 100 years ago to what would happen today in a similar calamity. Demographics, population density, and interconnectedness of our overall economy are vastly different than in the 1930s. The domino effect of a Great Depression event these days would be 100x worse.

- - - Updated - - -

Also fuck anyone who believe's my grandmother isn't worth shutting down the economy. Everyone has someone who will be affected.

Of course we all do. So what do you say to the family that won't be able to afford to feed their kids because of this? Not saying there's an absolutely perfect solution here, but you're looking at it thru a very narrow lens.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

This thread has taken a pretty sick turn. I mean we have people arguing about gambling with people over X age lives for a double shift at the Taco Bell.

Other nations seem to be able to do this shutdown? Why can't the richest and most prosperous one handle it for a few weeks? Why are we the ones wanting to trade a percentage of the population for this bullshit.

We are a sick sick nation.

[Trunksee]

The price is up to 16 million Americans and 150 million globally. We are talking about the sort of numbers that usually die in a world war. That is a fuckload of people to write off because you want to sit down to eat your Big Mac again.

This is exactly the sort of entitled bullshit that I would expect from people that have no sense of of scale or cost. The moment they are inconvenienced they start talking about killing bank employees, and writing off tens of millions of deaths to go back to "Normal". It is cowardly, immoral, and fundamentally ignorant.

The logisitics of this are a known quantity, if we don't take strict measures to slow the spread of the disease, then you have millions of people getting sick at the same time, and we don't have enough medical capacity to take care of that many people in addition to all the usual sicknesses, injuries, and births that are still going on. So millions of people will be sick without access to medical care that could easily save them, and they will die.

On the other hand if we stop rushing, spread this out over 4-5 months, then the same number might get sick, but they won't all be sick at the same time, so they can all get medical care. We can have the same number of cases, but a tiny fraction of the number of deaths. That 2% death rate people keep quoting is only with available medical care, without medical care, that number is way higher. It is probably like 8% or so with absolutely no medical care, which thankfully hasn't occurred yet anywhere. Many people are only surviving these because they have access to ventilators, drugs, and safe places to recover.

No I honestly don't want my Big Mac I just want to see some stabilization instead of collapse. I want to see some sign of where the recovery will go and all I am hearing from the professionals is LOCK IT DOWN for months. I see a president trying to keep some stability vs a lock down. If your in a country with a lock down already in place, expect to be locked down until June if not later. Doesn't sound like much will be able to recover from that. The WHO is freaking out because this will ravage countries with little to no healthcare. I believe in my country and I need a little Hope right now vs all this panic and fear.

[Somewhatconcerned]

So you think becoming homeless or losing some money is worse than 1000's+ of people dead?

Depends on the scale of homelessness and starvation we're talking about. These people don't matter either? Or matte less?

And if you ask the people at risk for that, of course they would say it's worse. There has to be an exit strategy- not just an indefinite lockdown.

[Orange Joe]

Really hard to compare what happened almost 100 years ago to what would happen today in a similar calamity. Demographics, population density, and interconnectedness of our overall economy are vastly different than in the 1930s. The domino effect of a Great Depression event these days would be 100x worse.

With the newer tech and better infrastructure we have now it could also be 100X better. Fact remains past evidence shows your claim to be incorrect, and you have nothing to back it up.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends on the scale of homelessness and starvation we're talking about. These people don't matter either? Or matte less?

And if you ask the people at risk for that, of course they would say it's worse. There has to be an exit strategy- not just an indefinite lockdown.

Sure they matter. And we can help them out of it when the time comes. We can't help people back from the dead can we.

Again since this logic seems to be escaping you let me make it nice and big so you can read it.

homeless/unemployed = temporary
Dead = permanent

[Belize]

I just want to see some stabilization instead of collapse.

You clearly don't, else you'd be agreeing with the measures being taken.
I'm not sure what it'll take to get the point across to you that the current economic disruptions are 100% tied to the virus, and that until it's properly contained, the economy won't get better.

We have massive supply chain disruptions, getting everyone ,that isn't currently sick, sick won't be helping these in any ways. It's hard to work with a pneumonia.

[Somewhatconcerned]

With the newer tech and better infrastructure we have now it could also be 100X better. Fact remains past evidence shows your claim to be incorrect, and you have nothing to back it up.

- - - Updated - - -



Sure they matter. And we can help them out of it when the time comes. We can't help people back from the dead can we.

Again since this logic seems to be escaping you let me make it nice and big so you can read it.

homeless/unemployed = temporary
Dead = permanent

"Past evidence " from a one time event almost 100 years is hardly a claim either.

You sure seem eager to find out. Imagine being so casual with the notion of mass unemployment/homelessness/starvation as if that doesn't lead to people dying, either. So easy to fix, right?

- - - Updated - - -

You clearly don't, else you'd be agreeing with the measures being taken.
I'm not sure what it'll take to get the point across to you that the current economic disruptions are 100% tied to the virus, and that until it's properly contained, the economy won't get better.

We have massive supply chain disruptions, getting everyone ,that isn't currently sick, sick won't be helping these in any ways. It's hard to work with a pneumonia.

Supply chains get disrupted if everyone stays home, too.

[Trunksee]

With the newer tech and better infrastructure we have now it could also be 100X better. Fact remains past evidence shows your claim to be incorrect, and you have nothing to back it up.

- - - Updated - - -



Sure they matter. And we can help them out of it when the time comes. We can't help people back from the dead can we.

Again since this logic seems to be escaping you let me make it nice and big so you can read it.

homeless/unemployed = temporary
Dead = permanent

People didn't rent like they do now and if you haven't notice landlords on average aren't the nicest people when you don't pay them. People carry debt like no other time. Most people live further away from their workplace than they used to and without being able to pay your way to get there its a lot harder to find work. People carry debt like they are a bank unlike that time. If people don't pay their bills banks begin to collapse and people will lose almost all of their funds. Yes there are protections but if the government is already hanging by a string it will be tough for them to honor it quickly. The infrastructure makes it worse than then.

[Orange Joe]

"Past evidence " from a one time event almost 100 years is hardly a claim either.

So what are you basing your logic off of? what evidence do you have that it will be worse than before?

You sure seem eager to find out.

You sure seem eager to just let people die so lets not try to be morally superior here huh

[Sorshen]

People didn't rent like they do now and if you haven't notice landlords on average aren't the nicest people when you don't pay them. People carry debt like no other time. Most people live further away from their workplace than they used to and without being able to pay your way to get there its a lot harder to find work. People carry debt like they are a bank unlike that time. If people don't pay their bills banks begin to collapse and people will lose almost all of their funds. Yes there are protections but if the government is already hanging by a string it will be tough for them to honor it quickly. The infrastructure makes it worse than then.

Can't get your rent money if they're dead.

[Belize]

Supply chains get disrupted if everyone stays home, too.

Not everyone though, only non-essentials until the spread is contained. How is this so hard to understand?

States aren't locking EVERYONE down, only those that realistically don't need to be out, like the local burger flipper or Mike from accounting.

[Breccia]

This discussion "What should we do in 15 days" could end up having a completely different face come the moment.

We are playing with lag here.

This is one of the smartest and best-phrased messages on the whole situation. And it happens to pair up directly with this CDC posting that says that the coronavirus lasted on some surfaces on cruise ships for rather a bit longer than the 1-3 days we've been hearing.

I would say "I find myself concerned that we'll be under house arrest a bit longer than two weeks" but I won't, because I already knew that, the medical experts have already asked for that, this is just more proof they were right.

April. Lol.

[Orange Joe]

People didn't rent like they do now and if you haven't notice landlords on average aren't the nicest people when you don't pay them. People carry debt like no other time. Most people live further away from their workplace than they used to and without being able to pay your way to get there its a lot harder to find work. People carry debt like they are a bank unlike that time. If people don't pay their bills banks begin to collapse and people will lose almost all of their funds. Yes there are protections but if the government is already hanging by a string it will be tough for them to honor it quickly. The infrastructure makes it worse than then.

And? none of that counters the very important part of my post that is in huge text on the bottom. You almost can't miss it.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Supply chains get disrupted if everyone stays home, too.

Thats kind of bullshit. Essental services will continue to run in a lockdown. I work for a power company and we already have weekly rotation schedules where people get tested, report to work, and are off setup. Supply chains will be the same way for things like food, water, power and medical supplies. Sure, you might not get that collector addition animal crossing in time but important things will continue. BUT supply chains and services will fall apart if everyone spreads the virus all over the place and everyone gets sick. Reducing a lot of foot traffic and contact SAVES the essental services and supply chains. Sure this couldn't go on forever but a few months? Piece of cake.

[Thekri]

No I honestly don't want my Big Mac I just want to see some stabilization instead of collapse. I want to see some sign of where the recovery will go and all I am hearing from the professionals is LOCK IT DOWN for months. I see a president trying to keep some stability vs a lock down. If your in a country with a lock down already in place, expect to be locked down until June if not later. Doesn't sound like much will be able to recover from that. The WHO is freaking out because this will ravage countries with little to no healthcare. I believe in my country and I need a little Hope right now vs all this panic and fear.

No, you are panicking and willing to let millions die to save your own ass. Because you are a sheltered and weak individual who has no idea what hardship actually looks like, and your first thought is to throw everyone to the wolves and save yourself. Or more accurately, have other people save you.

We can save millions of lives doing the right thing, or we can fuck it up and continue this cycle forever. The virus doesn't magically stop when you open up business again, the economy doesn't recover, things don't go back to normal. The opposite in fact. It keeps spreading people until the sick pile up, and the undertakers can't dig graves fast enough. That isn't hyperbole, that is what Pandemics do. It won't magically go away in April, if we don't stop it it can stick around for years, and keep killing people until enough herd immunity develops to finally end it, but millions will die first. Don't think the economy is going to be rosy in the meantime, workers dying is bad for business.

I know you want a miracle, and for it to be over tomorrow. So do I, but that isn't a choice we have. It isn't flipping a switch and sacrificing all our old people for a good economy either. Not only is that horribly immoral, if they die our economy will still be shitty.