Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[DingDongKing]

I don't know if it counts as a scandal, but Trump says you won't see him again if he loses. Not surprising since he'd be likely running from the dozens of lawsuits coming his way.

He also said he’d probably put an executive order in place to stop Biden being President. But that just sounds like more wrestling talk.

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RBGs death has drowned everything else out for the time being.

I have zero doubt he is absolutely delighted that she’s passed. Because it galvanises his loyal base even more and may even tip some swing voters looking for a reason NOT to vote for a Democrat.

[Zaydin]

He also said he’d probably put an executive order in place to stop Biden being President. But that just sounds like more wrestling talk.

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I have zero doubt he is absolutely delighted that she’s passed. Because it galvanises his loyal base even more and may even tip some swing voters looking for a reason NOT to vote for a Democrat.

I dunno, the Cook Political Report has an op-ed out that says the fight could end up hurting Trump, since a not insignificant chunk of the coalition that helped him win in 2016 is pro-choice. Putting a rabidly anti-choice zealot on the Supreme Court could either get them to not vote for Trump or to outright vote for Biden. Given how narrow his wins were in the states that put him into the Oval Office, Trump can't afford to lose any of his base.

[DingDongKing]

I dunno, the Cook Political Report has an op-ed out that says the fight could end up hurting Trump, since a not insignificant chunk of the coalition that helped him win in 2016 is pro-choice. Putting a rapidly anti-choice zealot on the Supreme Court could either get them to not vote for Trump or to outright vote for Biden. Given how narrow his wins were in the states that put him into the Oval Office, Trump can't afford to lose any of his base.

Shall have a read of it, but I struggle to see how anything he does will convince his solid base to vote against him.

They've all been convinced that the world will end should he lose.

[Monster Hunter]

Ah, gotcha - I think I misunderstood what you meant.

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You'll get no argument from me. Personally, I think education is the only real key to digging out of our racist and ignorant society - people in the conversation that was linked are like that and worse here in the United States - it's horrific.

And the problem you outlined gets worse.

Even if the United States turned some proverbial corner and funded education to the Nth degree, making schools palaces and teachers six figure earners, we'd still be screwed. Because education in America is community based, so regardless of what was sent down the funnel for funding, we'd still have the willfully ignorant teaching the next generation. Plus - we have all the people who are taught ignorance and hate at home, and how the holy fuck do we combat that?

The only real fix, centered on the premise that education is the Silver Bullet, is to reorganize all of education so it flows from a centralized, federalized source. But then we'd get a Devos in there before any of that good stuff took hold, and it would be monumentally fucked again.

I've been chatting with friends/family/forums looking for a solution to what Trump is a symptom of, and we're still looking.

Only example i can draw from is gay rights in the UK, and it takes generations of education but its does lead to a more stable political outlook for those rights, sexuality hasn't even been talked about political since I think the late 80s, where as its still seems to be a topic in the states.

The last right that was given was gay marriage and I actually see it as a mark of pride and a testament to the better aspects of UK society that gay marriage stood as a Conservative manifesto pledge, but that's the result of decades and generations of education

[Dontrike]

He also said he’d probably put an executive order in place to stop Biden being President. But that just sounds like more wrestling talk.

It really is amazing he thinks he can do whatever he wants with executive orders.

I do have to wonder though if there is some credence to something like that. I'm sure it's insanity and can't be done, but in this day and age you never know.

[DingDongKing]

It really is amazing he thinks he can do whatever he wants with executive orders.

I do have to wonder though if there is some credence to something like that. I'm sure it's insanity and can't be done, but in this day and age you never know.

Anything is possible with the current Senate and Administration.

[Monster Hunter]

Its another reason why I thought Warren would be the perfect candidate. She was a former educator and because of that she has an excellent ability to break down complex things in ways even the stupid could understand, plus I figured education reform would be sort of pet project at worst for her.

But the cowardly part of the Democrats decided Biden was the safer choice even though their last safe choice lost to Trump.

Aye she would have been good, but being honest politicaly in other areas she was to left yet for america, I can understand ofc alot of you guys want to have what Europe has as far as the socialist aspects of our societys, anything from the UK models to the Nordic models and as some one who's just had his hand rebuilt by the NHS after a cricket accident for free I can fully understand why.

But the lesson of Obama care should be that basically elections aren't really a vehicle for permanent change, unless its come as a result of social education on issues, the republicans will continue to hold policy's anti health care for as long as that is a vote winner for them, and as such will roll back what ever the demo do when the political wind eventually changes as it always does, the trick to lasting change is to make it like it in the UK where even the idea of private health care is so disgusting an idea to the general public no party will stand on that platform, and such things only come about from education.

If Americans were taught the truth about European health care models and not just fed constant and debunked lies about the cost, free health care would be as no brainer as the free fire and police services.

Also the tax argument against it is rubbish, its no great source but a guy called Russell wark on a quorate article gave a detailed break down that shows most Americans (depending on state taxes) pay more in tax than an average UK citizen and UK citizens get free health care from there taxes but us citizens then have the additional health insurance costs.

Also need to take the fear the republicans have that doing these things some how makes them socialist or they will suddenly melt or something, the Conservative party in the UK has held power for the longest amount of time of the 2 party's since the 1918 election reforms that gave the working and middle class the vote here and in that time we made the NHS and advanced all these rights, and by there popularity the cons had to adopt them, he'll in some cases like gas marriage they created it,

But thats what happens when a society moves left and the partys and politics react to it rather than political partys trying to drag a society not ready left, our whole political spectrum is left compared to the US. And yea we still had brexit (but that was far more complex than left v right,there were breathers from both sides of the political spectrum for different reasons who wanted out of the eu) and there's still racists and sexists and homophobes the war on them isn't one thats ever going to stop cos there will always be those elements in a society, the key is to just make them such a small amount there not worth a main party pandering to.

But if america wants to catch up to Europe as far as the things we enjoy over here, then it needs to unwind 50ish years of cold War propaganda and start at the grass roots and at the basics, non of the stuff that even Europe finds controversial and we debate, right at the grass roots and educate on the basics, work on getting better workers rights, get better health care, get better investment into poor areas, do some slum clearance and rebuilding, social housing schemes e.t.c

my general take is I see america and all the who ha over there and my immediate thought is all that violence is pointless between the two sides as there trying to run before they can walk on alot of issues.

[DingDongKing]

America as a whole isn't ready for something too much left of center. It'll take its time.

[Monster Hunter]

It really is amazing he thinks he can do whatever he wants with executive orders.

I do have to wonder though if there is some credence to something like that. I'm sure it's insanity and can't be done, but in this day and age you never know.

Presidents have an awful lot of power under the presidential system so it wouldn't surprise me to find they can pull that shit.

[Poopymonster]

Presidents have an awful lot of power under the presidential system so it wouldn't surprise me to find they can pull that shit.

As long as the Senate shrugs at his actions, he probably can.

[Monster Hunter]

As long as the Senate shrugs at his actions, he probably can.

It's why I actualy prefer parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarch its got its own flaws, every system does, but at least a priminister is far far far less powerful than a president.

[ati87]

America as a whole isn't ready for something too much left of center. It'll take its time.

It's sad that when equality (including economic) and decency is considered a left wing thing and not a general human thing to do.

[Gaidax]

It's why I actualy prefer parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarch its got its own flaws, every system does, but at least a priminister is far far far less powerful than a president.

Be careful what you wish for.

It's not all flowers and happiness over here either, parliamentary democracy with bazillion parties slows down and waters down effective decision making at the time of need.

Locally our 2nd wave coronavirus response is pretty atrocious - we seen it coming months ago, it was already apparent we're in a month ago and because of various populist crap religious parties in coalition, the PM could not do shit about it, despite trying hard. Only now we have entered a lockdown and it's a pretty damn watered down one because of coalition members populist crap.

[DingDongKing]

It's sad that when equality (including economic) and decency is considered a left wing thing and not a general human thing to do.

I know what you mean, but the US was a weird thought experiment from the start.

[Felya]

Be careful what you wish for.

It's not all flowers and happiness over here either, parliamentary democracy with bazillion parties slows down and waters down effective decision making at the time of need.

Locally our 2nd wave coronavirus response is pretty atrocious - we seen it coming months ago, it was already apparent we're in a month ago and because of various populist crap religious parties in coalition, the PM could not do shit about it, despite trying hard. Only now we have entered a lockdown and it's a pretty damn watered down one because of coalition members populist crap.

Grass is always greener... Every election process will have flaws, because in a democracy, you will never have 100% agreement. But, the problem is in how to mitigate said flaws. In US, they are supposed to be mitigated by 3 branches acting as a system of checks and balances, with a layer of the Republic through Congress and electoral college.

The hard question becomes... Are the problems that these mitigation factors aim to fix too great to resolve, where we need a full overhaul? Could the issue be implementation or one of the factors spoiling the bunch?

Pointing at a system you prefer will often get replies such as yours. Since, it’s a very easy answer, that doesn’t delve into complexity, that people who practice it... such as your self... would not be happy with. Because, grass is always greener...

[DingDongKing]

Do we count more eugenics shit as a scandal?

It should be. But the entirety of the media just let it go apart from some places like Vox and Daily Beast.

[Ripster42]

Just wanna say, if there is a movie made about the election/trump presidency soon, I want vincent d'onofrio to play dejoy.

[Paranoid Android]

After 2016 Trump Tower meeting Ivanka talked w/participants + later “discussed with her father how to conceal details from the press” but Mueller didn’t interview her because of concerns of the right-wing press + Trump, per write up of @AWeissmann_’s book https://t.co/4pSl0Esed0

https://twitter.com/abigailtracy/sta...397254657?s=19

New book from Andrew Weissman, special counsel in the Mueller investigation does not paint a good picture of Mueller. Basically Mueller was a pussy cat and did not actively pursue interviews and a thorough investigation.

Take it as you want and yes reinforces my opinion that Mueller was a failure.

[Thekri]

Do we count more eugenics shit as a scandal?

Well it might be a scandal if Trump hadn't been a public advocate for Eugenics going back to the 70s. So it is about as much of a scandal as Tom Cruise saying something about Scientology, not much of a scandal, because we already knew he believed that stuff.

Doesn't make it less crazy or evil, just not surprising. I mean when you elect Trump president, you get Trump as president. This isn't a surprising development. You want someone that isn't a crazy, racist, narcissistic asshole? Don't elect someone who has 5 decades of track record of being those things.

[ati87]

I know what you mean, but the US was a weird thought experiment from the start.

Which has nothing to do with fighting against equality in 2020.