1. #57801
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    This. However I also agree with Pelosi, the US needs a strong, principled conservative party.
    The US already has the Democrats as its center-right party.

    It does not need a conservative party in the "traditional" sense, because the tradition is fundamentally unjust and undemocratic. A new median is needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #57802
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I think the numbers of who leans where is pretty clear. And it paints the image that the democrats are indeed more popular in the United States, and that the republicans, through various means, have strong-armed their way into retaining much more power than is due to them.

    But look at the demographics. The only demographic Trump holds a majority approval rating in is among white, non-college educated men. That demographic is shrinking, and the republican party has not been attracting any others.

    I honestly think that breaking up the ways that republicans have been able to weasel their way into undue power and influence is politically paramount. Because, as we saw with Obamacare, any flashy policy, socialist-leaning or otherwise, can just be repealed (and they WILL try and repeal it) by any incoming republican government. So stopping them from obtaining that power when they circumvent the will of the people will do a lot more in the long run than spending all political capital on flashy legislation that may last only four years.
    But Biden will not do that neither will Harris they are both products of the failed system that Trump has managed to twist and abuse. I agree with you that we need to break up the system that have allowed them to weasel their way into power but I don't think that they will do it. Biden has made it pretty clear that he can't wait to embrace people like Lindsey Graham after what they have done these last four years. Biden will most likely be the forgiver in chief and we will be in a worse spot for it.

  3. #57803
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    50,876 new cases, which is slightly higher than last Saturday
    US coronavirus numbers rise, raising worries about winter

    Dozens of states are reporting rising numbers of COVID-19 cases in what could be the first signs of a long and difficult winter.

    Even states that had the lowest case numbers in the country in recent months — such as New Jersey and New York — are seeing spikes in infections, while states in the Midwest and Great Plains are becoming new hot spots.

    The U.S. is now recording an average of 47,000 new cases per day — a 12 percent increase from two weeks ago. It’s a dangerous spot to be in ahead of the colder winter months, when the virus’s spread will be aided by dry air and people spending more time indoors.
    - - - Updated - - -

    In Nobel Peace Prize news,NK reveals new super weapon at their latest Trump-style military parade.



    That's right: North Korea has officially made...



    Quickmix the Decepticon.

  4. #57804
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    But Biden will not do that neither will Harris they are both products of the failed system that Trump has managed to twist and abuse. I agree with you that we need to break up the system that have allowed them to weasel their way into power but I don't think that they will do it. Biden has made it pretty clear that he can't wait to embrace people like Lindsey Graham after what they have done these last four years. Biden will most likely be the forgiver in chief and we will be in a worse spot for it.
    I see no reason to believe Biden will be willing to work along with any of the republicans, especially if the democrats take the house and senate.

    I don’t really care what he might have said on the matter in the mid 90s or whatever; 2020 is not 1997 or 2008 or even 2016. It’s clear to everyone, especially the democrats at this point in time, that the republicans are completely morally bankrupt.

    As for “Biden and Harris will have been elected by a failed system...” uh, not really. If they win because they win the popular vote (likely) and the electoral college vote (An unfortunate necessity and one that’s more up in the air) after having won the democratic primaries fair and square, which Biden did, I’d deem that an absolutely deserved victory, and a testament to America’s ability to do away with the petty machinations of would-be tyrants.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #57805
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    That's right: North Korea has officially made...

    Quickmix the Decepticon.
    The proper reference should be Mixmaster, traditionally the cement mixer of the neon green Constructicons. The name Quickmix was used only in 2003 for a Mixmaster reference, probably due to trademark issues (which have since been resolved).

  6. #57806
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    That is false his base is 33-35 percent far lower than his approval rating and the amount he is losing by. Biden isn't beating Trump, Trump is currently making himself lose. We got lucky with Trump imagine if he was a wise anything he would be crowned king of the USA already.

    Here is my fear Biden takes office fails to shore up democracy in the name of bipartisanship and we are in a worse situation down the road. If Trump proved anything it is that our system is broken and a large chunk of the population are idiots.
    If they try that bipartisan crap then we are fucked as a nation and I hope they realize that and is probably what the republicans fear they have figured out by now.

    When the Democrats get in, they know they need to give the Republicans a taste of their own medicine this time or they prove that there are no consequences and even further emboldens those like AOC to run which they fear.

    If the Democrats get power, they need to be as bipartisan as the republicans were in Trumps first 2 years and cooperate just as much as then and what they pulled under Obama. If they haven't figured out that by now, we are effectively screwed as a nation unless the younger generation raise up enough to replace them with people who will.
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  7. #57807
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Stay safe, folks.
    Always appreciate the daily recaps, my dude.

  8. #57808
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    This. However I also agree with Pelosi, the US needs a strong, principled conservative party. The Republicans are no longer viable in this role. Hopefully an implosion if the Republican party will make space for something that actually strengthens democracy, and doesn't try to subvert it at every turn.
    We already have a strong, semi-principled, conservative party, the Democrats. The Republicans haven't filled that role in a long time.
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  9. #57809
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    I’m curious what is the purpose of a “Conservative party”.

  10. #57810
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The US already has the Democrats as its center-right party.

    It does not need a conservative party in the "traditional" sense, because the tradition is fundamentally unjust and undemocratic. A new median is needed.
    A complete and total collapse of the Republican party, followed by a schism in the Democratic Party, leading to a national Progressive or Dem Soc Party on the left and the Democratic Party on the right, would be the best thing for the country overall.

    Since Progressives and Democrats are pretty much in lock step on social values (essentially, have whatever social values you want personally, but don't try to legislate your preferences to strip rights from others with different preferences), that would leave the lines of division on things like worker rights, tax policy, the role of government in providing social services, the strength of the military, etc.

    You know, the things that actually matter in terms of governance and making a difference in the day to day in the lives of constituents, instead of nonsense like "religious freedom" to discriminate against LGBT and control women's health.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    LOL never change guys. I guess you won't because conservatism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I do care what people on this forum think of me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    This site is amazing. It's comments like this, that make this site amazing.

  11. #57811
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    I’m curious what is the purpose of a “Conservative party”.
    look out for the interests of the elite (democracy relies on thier voluntary participation) , and maintain a firewall against fascism.

    republicans have obviously failed badly in the US. 'Conservative Parties and the Birth of Democracy' is the book for you. I'm sure if you google it you will find articles with Ziblatt (how democracies die is pretty decent too)

  12. #57812
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    look out for the interests of the elite (democracy relies on thier voluntary participation) , and maintain a firewall against fascism.

    republicans have obviously failed badly in the US. 'Conservative Parties and the Birth of Democracy' is the book for you. I'm sure if you google it you will find articles with Ziblatt (how democracies die is pretty decent too)
    Thanks for the info.

    Your quick explanation makes me think society is better off without “elites”. Or a upper limit for “elites” wealth and influence should be placed.

  13. #57813
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    A complete and total collapse of the Republican party, followed by a schism in the Democratic Party, leading to a national Progressive or Dem Soc Party on the left and the Democratic Party on the right, would be the best thing for the country overall.

    Since Progressives and Democrats are pretty much in lock step on social values (essentially, have whatever social values you want personally, but don't try to legislate your preferences to strip rights from others with different preferences), that would leave the lines of division on things like worker rights, tax policy, the role of government in providing social services, the strength of the military, etc.

    You know, the things that actually matter in terms of governance and making a difference in the day to day in the lives of constituents, instead of nonsense like "religious freedom" to discriminate against LGBT and control women's health.
    Or, in summary:

    The culture war needs to end, with present "conservatives" acknowledging that their beliefs have a generational expiration date.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #57814
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    Don't be silly.
    He is above God !
    He is like "Elder god", "High God", "God of Gods".
    He created Gods.
    So what? Will Don Jr castrate Trump and throw his 'nads into the sea, from which will spring the most beautiful goddess Ivanka ever?
    Putin khuliyo

  15. #57815
    GOP are just kind of crazy, the ads being played in Iowa about Greenfield and Ernst are bonkers, in one pro Ernst ad she talks about keeping insurance for pre-existing conditions, another for making medication affordable, and a final one about how she will protect social security, these positions are the literal opposite of the planks of the Republican Party and the opposite of her voting record. Then her attack ads on Greenfield have her kicking families out of their homes, raising taxes and spending $95 trillion on healthcare (not a typo), and a final ad where Greenfield morphs into Nancy Pelosi while AOC's dismembered head is yelling about socialism.

    It is like the entire GOP has gone collectively insane in solidarity with Trump.

  16. #57816
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Or, in summary:

    The culture war needs to end, with present "conservatives" acknowledging that their beliefs have a generational expiration date.
    They would rather burn this nation to the ground to ensure they were the ones ruling over the ashes in an attempt to prove themselves right than ever watch this nation and their children thrive in a world that proves them wrong.
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  17. #57817
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    If they try that bipartisan crap then we are fucked as a nation and I hope they realize that and is probably what the republicans fear they have figured out by now.

    When the Democrats get in, they know they need to give the Republicans a taste of their own medicine this time or they prove that there are no consequences and even further emboldens those like AOC to run which they fear.

    If the Democrats get power, they need to be as bipartisan as the republicans were in Trumps first 2 years and cooperate just as much as then and what they pulled under Obama. If they haven't figured out that by now, we are effectively screwed as a nation unless the younger generation raise up enough to replace them with people who will.
    As I said, I see no real reason why the democrats would attempt to be bipartisan any more at this point in time. The democrat big wigs seem absolutely, 100% done with the republicans.

    The necessary "bipartisanship" I can see from them is if the democrats fail to retake the senate, and McConnell's yertle-the-turtle ass remains in place, demanding his republican underlings in the senate continue towing the exact same obstructionist line they have been for the past decade. Though I would hopefully expect at that point that Biden and Pelosi's house will make the senate an absolute hell for McConnell and co, and work around him as much as possible.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #57818
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As I said, I see no real reason why the democrats would attempt to be bipartisan any more at this point in time. The democrat big wigs seem absolutely, 100% done with the republicans.

    The necessary "bipartisanship" I can see from them is if the democrats fail to retake the senate, and McConnell's yertle-the-turtle ass remains in place, demanding his republican underlings in the senate continue towing the exact same obstructionist line they have been for the past decade. Though I would hopefully expect at that point that Biden and Pelosi's house will make the senate an absolute hell for McConnell and co, and work around him as much as possible.
    If they take the house and old Moscow Mitch the B1tch still holds the Senate, then there still will be no bipartisanship regardless of what they do. He will hold the entire thing hostage and will blame them for not getting anything done unless they can actually get their messaging out enough about it to prove it is him.

    If they attempt to actually play nice at all at this point, even if the Republicans control the Senate, they further prove they are spineless and there are no consequences.

    If the Democrats take the house and the presidency, they need to actually investigate Kavanaugh and have him removed for Perjury, if this new girl is confirmed, I would have them look into her and her religious group she hid originally and any omissions from her stuff there and do the same.

    I would also have them investigate Trump and drag all his stuff to light, I would investigate McConnell personally and his actions in regards to Trump and how the Russians personally rewarded him and his state for him protecting Trump, I would investigate Lindsey, Tillis, Matt Gates and all the others who enabled him and were derelict in their duties and make the next few years a living hell for him and have all their lies and miss deeds plastered wall to wall on every news stations and sight for all to see.

    I would also investigate Fox for their actions and lies and their pretending to be a news source to their viewers but claiming to be an entertainment source to get around honesty and would have them forced to either actually be honest or to put visible disclaimers on every show at the start, end and after every commercial break that their show isn't a news source and is entertainment. I would even push to force the hosts of such shows to verbally say it at the start of every episode.

    Even if the Republicans keep the Senate, the Democrats need to go hard on them and refuse to play nice, make their lives a living hell and make them regret all they did and strip them of their image and their ability to lie to their people.

    Biden could start issuing executive orders limiting their abilities to collect donations or other such stuff (Not sure the limits of them legally) but basically do executive orders that the entire nation agrees and make sure the house passes them as a law. Then watch the Republicans try and fight the executive order and make sure it is televised and when they try and claim that they support it but it over steps his bounds, his response right there, in the Senate in session and on camera is, "Well, a bill has passed the house about this very issue you claim to support and is sitting on McConnell's desk right now, instead of fighting this, put your money where you mouth is and lets vote on that bill right now for the cameras".

    All they need is the president and congress and the Democrats can reign hell on them for all they have done, they just have to have the balls to do it, something they have never seemed to have when they get power for as long as I have been old enough to vote and payed attention.

    Edit: AFK and off to bed, will check back later.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2020-10-11 at 07:28 AM.
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  19. #57819
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As I said, I see no real reason why the democrats would attempt to be bipartisan any more at this point in time. The democrat big wigs seem absolutely, 100% done with the republicans.

    The necessary "bipartisanship" I can see from them is if the democrats fail to retake the senate, and McConnell's yertle-the-turtle ass remains in place, demanding his republican underlings in the senate continue towing the exact same obstructionist line they have been for the past decade. Though I would hopefully expect at that point that Biden and Pelosi's house will make the senate an absolute hell for McConnell and co, and work around him as much as possible.
    Except the democratic big wigs have never shown the balls to actually do this, let's not forget Chuck Schummer is no Mitch McConnell he has shown zero ability to keep his caucus in line. We have democrats like Joe Manchin who have already openly stated they are want to bring "bipartisanship back". The reason things are the way they are is because the democratic party remains a party that has spent decades trying to be a big tent party all the while pissing on its base.

    I do not see this changing we simply do not have the kind of leadership at the top that republicans do, I don't see neither Pelosi, Biden or Schummer as the type of people to push for this or have the party discipline to pull it off. I clearly hope I am wrong but I think democrats should have lower expectations of their party. The way I see it republicans will take back the house at least in 2022 due to the democratic base being disappointed with the DNC once again.
    Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2020-10-11 at 08:14 AM.

  20. #57820
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Except the democratic big wigs have never shown the balls to actually do this, let's not forget Chuck Schummer is no Mitch McConnell he has shown zero ability to keep his caucus in line. We have democrats like Joe Manchin who have already openly stated they are want to bring "bipartisanship back". The reason things are the way they are is because the democratic party remains a party that has spent decades trying to be a big tent party all the while pissing on its base.

    I do not see this changing we simply do not have the kind of leadership at the top that republicans do, I don't see neither Pelosi, Biden or Schummer as the type of people to push for this or have the party discipline to pull it off. I clearly hope I am wrong but I think democrats should have lower expectations of their party. The way I see it republicans will take back the house at least in 2022 due to the democratic base being disappointed with the DNC once again.
    So the 2010s again (the last 40 years even)? Which has been the slogan this year for some reason?

    History says you're right but I always hold out that someone on the left steps up and pulls the party out of its "Always the 2nd option" rut but wouldn't bet on it.

    Democrats don't have or have never been able to really carve out a clear agenda once in true power, and thus lose it as quickly as they gain it. The best thing from the DNC in the last 40 years has been the ACA, what was a concession to the Right one not many seem to improve upon. Obama was obviously better for the country than Trump and yet a sizable portion of his voters went to Trump because the moderate DNC only looks attractive when it has to clean up the mess of moderates to the right. Otherwise it looks like a party of leaders who seem like they are always walking on eggshells too worried about pleasing the other side to do anything worthwhile.

    There is a reason why the DNC is notorious for its turnout issues while the RNC is so confident in its base that it rather persuade others to not vote. Fence sitting is a terrible ideology.

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