Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[jonnysensible]

themius you can call these people what they are you dont have to make a distinction using a reference to brown people to express a similarity that only exists in your head.

it belittes that horrors suffered under isis and the atrocities they commited.

when the day comes that a trump caravan takes over a town, throws the gays off roofs, puts women into bondage and sexual slavery after killing thier fathers, mass executes children for singing and nails people to crosses in the middle of the town square, until then...shut the fuck up.
[Infraction]

[Themius]

themius you can call these people what they are you dont have to make a distinction using a reference to brown people to express a similarity that only exists in your head.

it belittes that horrors suffered under isis and the atrocities they commited.

when the day comes that a trump caravan takes over a town, throws the gays off roofs, puts women into bondage and sexual slavery after killing thier fathers, mass executes children for singing and nails people to crosses in the middle of the town square, until then...shut the fuck up.

Perhaps you don't understand the horrors committed within this country or that continue to happen. Shall we go to videos of police in prisons torturing prisoners who are handcuffed while laughing? Shall we go to the videos of prisons where people routinely die, sometimes due to beating by officers with a state that doesn't do anything about it because most of the population in the jail is black and they don't give a fuck?

Do they need to throw gays off roofs? What about when they shack up with police, kettle people into an area and then shoot a couple of people? What about a guy killed for jogging... or the black man killed while white kids filmed it calling him the n-word while laughing and killing him?

Do you think the plight of the main two minorities here is nothing compared to a decade of terror?

Also a response to that tweet:

Comparison is made because Christian right believes, as does Da'esh, their religion & views should be forced on all Americans, by violence if necessary. While not at the level of Da'esh yet, Christian right has harassed & threatened citizens, caused damage & is ready to do more

The views of them are literally the same... have you seen what some of these terrorist groups say and do and believe?


Shall I not call fucking neo-nazi nazis because they've not gassed a few million jews yet? Because that's the argument you're making, goodbye. Come back when you idk... make more sense.

"You can't call those nazis nazis they've not gassed all the people they have in the concentration camps yet"

[Benggaul]

88,905 new cases; a little under 19k more than last Monday. That's a pretty hefty jump for a low-report day and has me really fucking worried for the week ahead.

Texas: 8,320 new cases; 48 deaths
Illinois: 6,222 new cases; 18 deaths
California: 5,280 new cases; 22 deaths
Fuck Florida.
Kansas: 3,669 new cases (new record); 17 deaths
Wisconsin: 3,433 new cases; 3 deaths
Michigan: 3,354 new cases; 17 deaths
Tennessee: 3,161 new cases; 26 deaths
Indiana: 3,077 new cases; 26 deaths
Minnesota: 2,948 new cases; 9 deaths
Ohio: 2,885 new cases; 37 deaths
Missouri: 2,840 new cases; 7 deaths
Pennsylvania: 2,743 new cases (new record*); 6 deaths
Connecticut: 2,651 new cases (new record); 11 deaths
Colorado: 2,237 new cases; 4 deaths
New York: 1,822 new cases; 11 deaths
New Jersey: 1,779 new cases; 2 deaths
Iowa: 1,770 new cases; 27 deaths
Washington: 1,671 new cases (new record); 16 deaths
North Carolina: 1,336 new cases; 7 deaths
Utah: 1,196 new cases; no deaths reported
Oklahoma: 1,084 new cases; 9 deaths
Kentucky: 1,028 new cases; 3 deaths
Virginia:1,026 new cases; 3 deaths

This is the highest Texas has been since mid-August. The US has 9.5 million confirmed cases...Texas is on track to hit 1 million by the end of the week (good luck @Crissi). Not too many records overall but a ton of the states listed reported totals way higher than their previous Mondays indicating that they WILL set records later this week. Washington blew back up again. Connecticut's usual 3-day total (they combine Saturday and Sunday in with Monday) is way above previous records. Illinois is trying to fight with Texas over the top spot. If you want some kind of visual representation of how the US is doing, just have a mental map of the US in your head and then imagine it's ALL red and New England and the West Coast are a slightly lighter shade of red. Despite hitting 100k last week we haven't peaked yet.

522 deaths isn't appreciably different than last week which isn't surprising given it's a Monday. The total is now 236,997. I'm expecting the 7-day average to rise more steeply this week or next.

Related news:

Why this Covid-19 surge is worse than the others--TL;DR: Ignorant assholes won't follow basic measures such as wearing masks and social distancing.

People who have Covid-19 or who have been exposed can vote in person, CDC says--But this is assuming people follow basic rules for doing so. Hope y'all voted early.

Cases of Covid-19 in children spike, with 61,000 in 1 week--"Send the children back to school!"

Thousands in Utah attended Halloween rave protesting coronavirus rules, sheriff says--What was I saying about ignorant assholes?

Hospitals competing for nurses as US coronavirus cases surge--And it's only going to get worse.

Stay safe, folks.

[nonameelf]

The views of them are literally the same... have you seen what some of these terrorist groups say and do and believe?


Shall I not call fucking neo-nazi nazis because they've not gassed a few million jews yet? Because that's the argument you're making, goodbye. Come back when you idk... make more sense.

"You can't call those nazis nazis they've not gassed all the people they have in the concentration camps yet"

Evangelicals are the ones funding anti-gay propaganda all over the world. Including Africa where they encourage the death penalty for being gay.

There is no doubt in my mind that if those religious extremists ever took power in the US that they would do the same here.

[Themius]

Evangelicals are the ones funding anti-gay propaganda all over the world. Including Africa where they encourage the death penalty for being gay.

There is no doubt in my mind that if those religious extremists ever took power in the US that they would do the same here.

In Uganda, the laws that were passed to kill gay people and the publishing of newspapers to find, jail, abuse, kill gay people all can be traced back to a fucking evangelical from Massachusettes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/u...vangelist.html

People all over the world are dying, or have groups propped up that terrorise them because of these very people supporting the right.

It amazes me that some people would take issue with comparing these people to a terror organisation when we see clear ties. I feel it all has to do with myopia and not really knowing or understanding just how large the issue is or how many people have died or how people do feel terrorised by the very country they live in.

And frankly to a lot of white Americans it is easy to be myopic.

[jonnysensible]

snip

thats no the argument im making you are now strawmanning because you are incapable of nuance as evidenced here.

Those voters, those people, are terrorists

you are talking about distinctly different groups and lumping them all in because its convenient for you.

The views of them are literally the same

is also telling. you are linking dominionists to miltia groups and then qanoncaravans that organised on closed groups on facebook. they dont share the same ideologies.

[nonameelf]

In Uganda, the laws that were passed to kill gay people and the publishing of newspapers to find, jail, abuse, kill gay people all can be traced back to a fucking evangelical from Massachusettes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/u...vangelist.html

Yeah, people don't seem to truly understand just how evil evangelicals are because most of their most extreme fuckery is happening in Africa.
[Infraction]

[Themius]

thats no the argument im making you are now strawmanning because you are incapable of nuance as evidenced here.



you are talking about distinctly different groups and lumping them all in because its convenient for you.


is also telling. you are linking dominionists to miltia groups and then qanoncaravans that organised on closed groups on facebook. they dont share the same ideologies.

Strawmanning history...

The people in those caravans some of which have weapons and threatened people... some of which have maced and actually have shot people being compared to another terrorist caravan isn't hyperbole.. it isn't straw-manning it is literally the facts of the matter.

a caravan or people terrorising people because of politics are literally terrorists. It probably helps my case that we have known terrorist groups going by the FBI... that are often among these people.

I am lumping them all in. If you support terrorism you are a terrorist. If you give money to support a terror group you are a terrorist. I mean for fuck sakes! You have terror groups that sometimes work together so trying to claim "but they were from multiple groups that do terrorist things" isn't helping...

Like... if you're white and Trump wins... it probably isn't a super super terrible thing.. not great.. unless you're part of the 40% cool with terrorism and fascism

if you're not though... if you're latino black or native American... it is far more consequential and dangerous.

[TigTone]

Strawmanning history...

The people in those caravans some of which have weapons and threatened people... some of which have maced and actually have shot people being compared to another terrorist caravan isn't hyperbole.. it isn't straw-manning it is literally the facts of the matter.

a caravan or people terrorising people because of politics are literally terrorists. It probably helps my case that we have known terrorist groups going by the FBI... that are often among these people.

I am lumping them all in. If you support terrorism you are a terrorist. If you give money to support a terror group you are a terrorist. I mean for fuck sakes! You have terror groups that sometimes work together so trying to claim "but they were from multiple groups that do terrorist things" isn't helping...

https://mobile.twitter.com/RzstProgr...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Here in my home town.

Nothing like these fine Trump supporters. Only the best.

[Paranoid Android]

Oof. Trump is calling his microphone a “piece of garbage” after 20 mins of issues and has now said repeatedly the audio production team in Kenosha shouldn’t be paid.


Trump being Trump. Always trying to stiff people.

[Themius]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RzstProgr...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Here in my home town.

Nothing like these fine Trump supporters. Only the best.

Maybe I should have posted a video of a African terror group that only beat a person Almost to death. They don’t always kill people.

Hell after that and a person goes to the state for help. What does the state do? Sanction the terror.

[Fugus]

That’s fantastic... the guy you responded to, saw people crucified along a road by ISIS... those who speak out, don’t have the privilege to not be beheaded if ISIS finds out. The fact that you and I can talk shit about Trump, without getting our heads cut off, proves you are wrong.

The thing with this is, that Trump is trying to change that as part of it. You look at his groups actions and how he supported them. Look at what he has allowed to happen to migrants who crossed our boarders while being detained and actually supports it. Look at what he has told the Trumps to do when he told them to shoot people and he would take care of it and so on.

The reason we can talk like this about Trump is because Trump and his enablers and supporters aren't in full control (Yet) and can't do anything about it.

[Themius]

The thing with this is, that Trump is trying to change that as part of it. You look at his groups actions and how he supported them. Look at what he has allowed to happen to migrants who crossed our boarders while being detained and actually supports it. Look at what he has told the Trumps to do when he told them to shoot people and he would take care of it and so on.

The reason we can talk like this about Trump is because Trump and his enablers and supporters aren't in full control (Yet) and can't do anything about it.

Exfuckinactly.

It’s the night before the vote where nazis take control. We can’t sit around saying “oh they’re not there yet!” As if that’s an argument when that’s their goal! Is isis less isis now because they’ve lost their power?? No they’re still isis they’re still terrorists.

Is isis less isis when they killed two people secretly in a refugee camp? No! Why should American terrorists who try to do the same be given slack?

If they win and had full control I wouldn’t be surprised if I ended up rounded up and killed. Wont happen due to how many democrats there are... but if that right crazy side had complete control? I would fully expect full blown genocide, overtly.

As if the concentration camps and sterilisation were not enough of a precursor

Honestly a president who called himself a nationalist. Called on white known terror groups tied to MURDERS and attacks a governor WHO HAD A TERROR PLOT AGAINST HER.

The logical outcome of those people in full control is Germany all over.

Or actually... Jim Crow but 1920s Jim Crow! So lynching and murder and some slavery.

[Corvus]

88,905 new cases; a little under 19k more than last Monday. That's a pretty hefty jump for a low-report day and has me really fucking worried for the week ahead.

Not just the week ahead - I'm dreading to see what happens from in person voting and just how much of a spike that causes. We all know that the repub voters aren't going to properly mask and socially distance after all.

[beanman12345]

Exfuckinactly.

It’s the night before the vote where nazis take control. We can’t sit around saying “oh they’re not there yet!” As if that’s an argument when that’s their goal! Is isis less isis now because they’ve lost their power?? No they’re still isis they’re still terrorists.

Is isis less isis when they killed two people secretly in a refugee camp? No! Why should American terrorists who try to do the same be given slack?

If they win and had full control I wouldn’t be surprised if I ended up rounded up and killed. Wont happen due to how many democrats there are... but if that right crazy side had complete control? I would fully expect full blown genocide, overtly.

As if the concentration camps and sterilisation were not enough of a precursor

Honestly a president who called himself a nationalist. Called on white known terror groups tied to MURDERS and attacks a governor WHO HAD A TERROR PLOT AGAINST HER.

The logical outcome of those people in full control is Germany all over.

Or actually... Jim Crow but 1920s Jim Crow! So lynching and murder and some slavery.

idk

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1540626.html

These people are going to go after the dem leaders first, Whitmer, Northam, Wolf, Biden/Harris Bus. There are a lot of dems, but it's the people who do nothing and let it happen, that's the threat. And they are the bigger part of the population.

[Paranoid Android]

.@FLOTUS Melania Trump: "Our children are watching and learning about politics in our country. They deserve a better display of responsibility and respect." https://t.co/93lPt2JlD3

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1...761017347?s=19

I think Melania's speech writer is part of the deep state (snark). The self awareness here is amazing.

As with the person who picks Trump's campaign music I believe they are the only ones in on the joke inside Trumpland.

[postman1782]

Oof. Trump is calling his microphone a “piece of garbage” after 20 mins of issues and has now said repeatedly the audio production team in Kenosha shouldn’t be paid.


Trump being Trump. Always trying to stiff people.

He can't pay what he doesn't have.

[Breccia]

So obviously we've all seen Doctor Fauci disagree with Trump by saying things like "no, the outbreak is still lethal" "you still have to be careful" "things are not bigly".

Fortunately for Trump, everyone else in his gr--

Birx contradicts Trump in election eve memo urging coronavirus action

Oh, right. They're also doctors.

White House coronavirus task force coordinator Deborah Birx said in a memo Monday first obtained by the Washington Post that the U.S. is "entering the most concerning and most deadly phase of this pandemic."

In the memo on the eve of the election, Birx contradicts President Trump's repeated claims that the U.S. is "rounding the corner" in the virus fight, as she calls for "much more aggressive action" on the COVID-19 response.

Her comments come after NIAID director Anthony Fauci told the Washington Post in an interview Friday that the U.S. was "in for a whole lot of hurt" going into the fall and winter, prompting Trump to suggest he may seek to fire the career civil servant.

"This is not about lockdowns — It hasn’t been about lockdowns since March or April," Birx said in the memo, per WashPost and the New York Times.

"It's about an aggressive balanced approach that is not being implemented."

Another report dated Oct. 17, when Trump held rallies in Michigan and Wisconsin, notes that an increase in hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 is "not due to increased testing but broad and ever increasing community spread."

"There is an absolute necessity of the Administration to use this moment to ask the American people to wear masks, physical distance and avoid gatherings in both public and private spaces."

And Trump/Pence's task force haven't met with either for a month. Why have a task force on the lethal outbreak, if you're not going to meet with them, do the opposite of everything they say, and also threaten to fire them for disagreeing?

- - - Updated - - -

Trump baselessly claims Supreme Court's ruling on Pennsylvania mail ballots will 'induce violence'

The Supreme Court decision on voting in Pennsylvania is a VERY dangerous one. It will allow rampant and unchecked cheating and will undermine our entire systems of laws. It will also induce violence in the streets. Something must be done!

(several seconds later)

Twitter, Facebook flag Trump post questioning Supreme Court voting decision

Twitter added a disclaimer to Trump’s tweet, saying that its content was “disputed” and “might be misleading.”

The action was in line with Twitter’s “civic integrity policy,” a Twitter spokesman told Reuters, saying that the social media the platform will “significantly restrict engagements” on the tweet.

Twitter’s disclaimer included a link to information on how voting by mail is “legal and safe.”

Facebook posted a disclaimer saying that voting by mail and voting in person have a “history of trustworthiness” in the U.S., with voter fraud being extremely rare.

I bet they're just waiting for the go-ahead to cut Trump off forever. He's done little on their platforms but lie and incite violence.

[s_bushido]

I bet they're just waiting for the go-ahead to cut Trump off forever. He's done little on their platforms but lie and incite violence.

I imagine it's going to be extremely cathartic for whichever Twitter employee finally gets to push the button to ban that jackass.

Although they really should archive his feed instead of purging it, so that we can never forget just how low we were willing to go.

[Breccia]

I can't believe the road that's been traveled, and the allies and friends I've made all the way. If Trump loses tomorrow, the job will shift to punishing the guilty and restoring what he broke. He Trump wins tomorrow, the job will shift to trying to arrest this country's slide into permanent autocracy. It is the end of one thing and start of something else.

Win or lose, Biden was the perfect candidate for this election and he and his team ran it nearly perfectly. No one could have done better. The post mortem, either which way, is going to be filled with very clever people who KNEW ALL ALONG​ something. Ignore them. It's nonsense. No other candidate Democrats had could have build a coalition as big as the one that is turning out. He got the enthusiasm - record number of voters. He got the money. He honed the tactics. He visited everywhere he needed to when he needed to. He said two stupid things all campaign. He realized the power of negative partisanship far earlier than progressives who wanted a systemic transformation and liberals still infatuated with an Obama inspirational figure. He realized the way to beat Trump was to make it a referendum about Trump, act as the candidate of decency, and get out of Trump's way as he acted as his worst self.

If Biden wins tomorrow, it'll be because it was enough. If Biden loses tomorrow, it won't be that the strategy is wrong. it'll be because of the electoral college and a few thousand sick fucks living in one or two states. Hillary lost the election with 3 million more voters. Biden could lose with 7-13 million more votes in theory. It comes down to Pennsylvania. But a loss will not be an indictment of anything other than how we somehow still elect Presidents. Progressives were great parners this time. Bernie was fantastic. The moderate outreach was on point. Nothing else could have been done.

I hope people also realize how well the last 4 years have been played. Trump, fortunately, didn't discover his power until March 2019. He went from January 2016 until then constrained by investigations, upheaval, infighting and most of all, the Mueller Report. With Barr basically shut down Mueller, Trump had a couple months of freedom, before Impeachment (and the road to it) locked down Trump for nearly 6 months. He escaped that until February 2020 when Covid hit. He's discovered AND used his power then, really in just this year, despite Coronavirus. In that, we are fortunate. Destructive as he has been, he has been handcuffed for most of his tenure from being worse. A second Trump term would be Trump unbound.

Folks need to realize how important those delaying actions were to get to this point in the shape we are. Trump was never going to be removed by the Senate. We all knew that. But it would (and did) consume his entire agenda for over 6 months. Mueller went nowhere and everyone got off for the most part, but it kept Trump, still uncertain in his power at that point, constrained from further misbehavior of that type. It was not an accident his Ukraine intrigue start right after Meuller was finished. It is exactly what I described - Trump was off probation in a sense, and he reverted to type.

Everything was necessary, everything was needed.

Biden is in some ways, strangely fortunate. Covid, although Biden would be loathe to call it lucky, crystalized Trump's failure as a leader and became the biggest political issue. It was the vehicle for Biden's message. Trump's impulses on downplaying it, being a show man, being against science and experts and always wanting to be the guy who can fix it, despite being a disaster for the country, helped make Biden's case (though this is kind of a backwards way of looking at it). Biden also has strong Democratic candidates for the Senate in Arizona, Michigan, North Carolina, Minnesota and Georgia this year, that should act as vehicles to winning, with split-ticket voting seeming unlikely in this polarized environment. Biden got lucky Trump got Covid, that Trump was his worst self at the first debate just before he got Covid, and that Democrats broke for Biden very early.

In short, if there was something else we, him or anyone could have done to maximize our success tomorrow I can't think of it. There is no repeat of "Hillary didn't go Wisconsin enough". Biden's been to Pennsylvania nearly 20 times in the past 6 weeks. It'll be "it just wasn't enough because this country is fucked".

But I happen to think it will be enough.

I've had my American flag in a dresser since 2016. Trump made me ashamed of being an American. He made that flag mean something dark and alien. Something evil. America isn't perfect by any stretch and many abuses have been committed under that flag, but the American flag is the flag that crushed fascism and communism and defended the most progressive for human rights, healthiest, richest and free century in human history. On the balance, the American flag is the symbol of liberty, justice and progress for all. Maybe not always in practice, but always in principle.

Trump's cult have done us a favor the last year adopting the fascistic Blue Lives Matter flag. Another Black and White flag. So surprising. Some have noted how it's come to replace the American flag at Trump rallies. Not an accident. The fascists are removing their disguise.

So I'm getting that flag out, for the first time in 4 years, and I'm hanging it outside my door with my Biden-Harris sign. Because if we are to reclaim America, we must reclaim its symbols, and that flag is among its most important. We must define our adversary as the un-American, and that flag, which stands for things contrary to what they believe, is the vehicle to do that. It belongs to people who believe in liberty, not people who believe that our country should lock kids in cages and ignore science.

I'm not a religious person, but in times of great travails, I do ask for my deceased loved ones to watch over for me and for help. I don't know why. It's irrational. There is no scientific basis for it. There is no afterlife. But maybe it's an act of hope of providence and the arc of history bending towards justice. Maybe it's hoping that against all science, the universe does have a plan.

So say a prayer for our country tomorrow.
Say a prayer that America can somehow heal its wounds.
Say a prayer for all the people the Trump administration has hurt, from illegal immigrants, to LGBT, to women to minorities to the poor.
Say a prayer for our foreign allies, whose faith we have betrayed to our great shame and that one day they may forgive us.
Say a prayer for our anti-Trump friends who have opposed Trump, and be thankful that history has again produced such people and called them when it was needed.
Say a prayer for the founders, whose creation their successors have so badly abused and we must prove ourselves worthy again.
Say a prayer for the millions of African Americans subjected to state violence, in its many forms.
Say a prayer for the tens of millions of Americans who have lost a job or known previously unknown insecurity.
Say a prayer 235,000 Americans who needlessly died in this avoidable contagion, and the millions of friends and families that will have an empty seat by the dinner table this Thanksgiving, for something Trump called a hoax.
But most of all, say a prayer that the majority of voting Americans - yes even those who voted for Trump at one time - will have the wisdom to say enough​, and take their place in history for it.

Be safe out there,