Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Fugus]

Anyone with any sense of foresight knew that this would happen, that Trump would splinter the GOP. Unfortunately for them, the GOP has NEVER been good at thinking long-term, and as such the vast majority of their political gamesmanship has been centered around short-term power-grabs. Instead of looking at the Tea Party and thinking “this could be problematic down the road,” the GOP saw an actionable group that could net them a few seats here and there. Now they’re experiencing the logical conclusion of backing groups of conspiracy-touting, racist lunatics and they’re falling apart as a result.

Well, to play devils advocate, the GOP also know the demographics are heavily slanted against them and they are losing ground by the year even with their cheating now and if the Democrats get power they may end up undoing some of the fuckery they have that has enabled them to keep so much power against the will of the people, especially after their actions under Obama.

They are on the clock and they know it, so they are trying to get as much as they can before they go and burn the rest down on the way out to blame the other guy.

[cubby]

His share of said businesses is an asset, and they can take that. This would therefore strip him of the properties for even less than they're worth.

Remember, banks aren't charities. They didn't let Trump personally guarantee a loan, if they knew Trump could not pay it back. There are all kinds of loopholes, true, but when you get a loan from a bank, you sign a contract, and they can/will enforce it. Deutsche Bank knows Trump has assets and partial ownership of assets. They also know he can't just give them to Donnie Dum-Dum Jr and shrug, saying "well I guess I'm broke...until you look the other way". Those people didn't get where they were playing fair, but they also didn't get where they were by giving billions to idiots and getting nothing in return.

If dodging loans with bankruptcy was that easy, everyone would do it (and therefore the rules would change). Imagine if I borrowed $1000 in cash secured with a $1000 computer. I give the cash to @cubby and also the computer, go back to the bank and say "Well I can't pay you". Not only would they take me to court to get the money by completely legal means, I suspect I'd be criminally liable for fraud for giving away the collateral. If @cubby knew what I was doing, he'd be an accomplice, so odds are he'd give the money and/or computer back or he's in trouble too.

Trump had six businesses that lost a ton of value and they could not pay their creditors. He was partial owner, but he didn't sign the contracts on his behalf, but his companies'. That's closer to the loophole you asked about. But as long as Trump has assets, especially the ones Deutsche Bank told him not to give away or sell, he can't just walk away from this one and claim poverty. Nor can he simply hide it under the rug and hope for the best.

If, for example, Deutsche Bank comes to reclaim the loan and Trump declares bankruptcy, the courts will decide who gets what share of Trump's owned businesses. If he tries to defraud a bank, Deutsche Bank will bring him up on charges, and still get their money from his family and businesses. People who give out loans aren't typically forgiving sorts that will say "Well, I guess we don't get that billion back, womp-womp" and shrug. They say "you owe us that billion, and if necessary, we'll get it from your grandchildren, now open wide we're going for those fillings".

@dextersmith

The above is just spot on. Bankruptcy, while complicated, is essentially closing out debts with remaining assets. Trump can try to play the bankruptcy game and avoid responsibility, but those loans are tied to properties, and each property should be held within it's own corporation (tax/liability trick, to avoid personal liability - like an LLC), so Trump won't have to file personal bankruptcy, but he might start to lose properties if the banks call the loans due.

[Gelannerai]

Well, to play devils advocate, the GOP also know the demographics are heavily slanted against them and they are losing ground by the year even with their cheating now and if the Democrats get power they may end up undoing some of the fuckery they have that has enabled them to keep so much power against the will of the people, especially after their actions under Obama.

They are on the clock and they know it, so they are trying to get as much as they can before they go and burn the rest down on the way out to blame the other guy.

True to an extent, but look at Florida. Cuban-Americans are by and large staunchly conservative, and are a rapidly growing sub-set of the American populace. Does the GOP think long-term and attempt to court Cuban-Americans and other citizens with Hispanic heritage by stamping out the racist aspects of their party/platform? Nope. Instead they double-down and go for Trailer Trash Barbie (MTG) and the rest of her brood.

[Benggaul]

True to an extent, but look at Florida. Cuban-Americans are by and large staunchly conservative, and are a rapidly growing sub-set of the American populace. Does the GOP think long-term and attempt to court Cuban-Americans and other citizens with Hispanic heritage by stamping out the racist aspects of their party/platform? Nope. Instead they double-down and go for Trailer Trash Barbie (MTG) and the rest of her brood.

They're doing both, by pretending to be ultra-religious, appealing to the Latino community.

[Paranoid Android]

Representative Joe Neguse from Colorado is doing a hella of a job.

I could be snarky here and say this would be the same as praising a high school senior saying his ABC's.

[Fugus]

True to an extent, but look at Florida. Cuban-Americans are by and large staunchly conservative, and are a rapidly growing sub-set of the American populace. Does the GOP think long-term and attempt to court Cuban-Americans and other citizens with Hispanic heritage by stamping out the racist aspects of their party/platform? Nope. Instead they double-down and go for Trailer Trash Barbie (MTG) and the rest of her brood.

If they court those Cubans they lose their racists they dog whistle now and even with those people, they would still lose more support overall.

[Paranoid Android]

Castro and Swalwell are looking like Perry Mason (boomer reference). I mean it is so easy and so much evidence that anyone presenting the case looks so good.

[Paranoid Android]

Swalwell is showing video evidence of Trump in his own words saying dead people voted, more people in Detroit voted than registered, etc. I would LOVE to have Trump sitting on this right now and examine him on his own words. "So what did you mean, when you said this"?

[TigTone]

Swalwell is showing video evidence of Trump in his own words saying dead people voted, more people in Detroit voted than registered, etc. I would LOVE to have Trump sitting on this right now and examine him on his own words. "So what did you mean, when you said this"?

I picture him saying “that wasn’t me”.

Trumps theme song should be It Wasn’t Me.

[cubby]

Wouldn’t it be funny if he lost control of Mar-A-Lago, thus negating his employment, so he had to move or take an actual job at the place?

OMG yes! I would put that under Top 5 events to befall Trump.

[Adam Jensen]

"I am Bruce Castor. I am the lead prosec- counsel for the 45th President"

How do you get confused as to which side of the trial you're on?

[Selvari7]

What's this impeachment really going to accomplish?

[Karrotlord]

What's this impeachment really going to accomplish?

Prevent Trump from running for any office again.

[Paranoid Android]

Prevent Trump from running for any office again.

I'm sure the poster is talking about the over whelming evidence yet not enough Senators, Republicans, going to vote not to acquit.

[Edge-]

https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-...-insurrection/

Over hours of opening statements in former President Donald Trump’s Senate trial, impeachment managers sounded similar themes: that several months of stolen-election messaging led to the siege of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6. One of the most visible figures of that insurrection quoted and validated those remarks in the middle of those proceedings.

Eric Munchel, the rioter dubbed the “zip-tie guy” for toting tactical restraints while accompanying his mother to the Senate, cited the impeachment managers’ trial memo in arguing that his actions could only properly be viewed in the context of Trump priming his supporters to believe that he could only lose reelection through fraud.

“Beginning in 2020, parts of the United States government—first and foremost the President of the United States of America—told the public that the only way President Donald Trump could lose the presidential election was if the election was rigged,” Munchel’s latest defense memo reads, in the first line of a section titled “Prologue.”

Zip Tie guy is blaming Trump as well. I hope they call some of these folks to testify, that'll be a treat.

[Santti]

What's this impeachment really going to accomplish?

Can't run for office again, and I think Trump also loses some (all?) of the benefits former presidents receive.

[Cthulhu 2020]

https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-...-insurrection/



Zip Tie guy is blaming Trump as well. I hope they call some of these folks to testify, that'll be a treat.

Pretty much. At least karma is a bitch. These people are facing overwhelming criminal charges. And really, I imagine most will point the finger at Trump if it means saving their own hides or even shaving a bunch of years off their prison time.

For as many times as people have been loyal to Trump and he threw them under the bus, it will be glorious to see all of these people throw Trump under the bus.

[Elegiac]

Trump's Twitter ban is permanent, even if he runs for office again in 2024.

[Selvari7]

Can't run for office again, and I think Trump also loses some (all?) of the benefits former presidents receive.

I mean with there pretty likely not being enough votes, now it's just theater.

[Elegiac]

What's this impeachment really going to accomplish?

Demonstrating to the public that the machinery of government is broken as is, providing greater justification for more comprehensive reforms to the system.

It's not fucking hard, lol. "It's just theater" - that's literally what half of politics is, sweaty; performing for an audience in order to mobilise them.