Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

out of concern for the side effects

Man, I see this shit so much. How fuckin soft are people, seriously? Like, ain't nobody ever had the flu before? Got punched in the arm hard and had a nasty bruise for a day or two? I just don't fuckin get it, man.

[Poopymonster]

From Nevada:

Father of 5 Dies After Texting Fiancée, 'I Should Have Gotten the Damn Vaccine'

You can click to read the article if you like but the headline pretty much says it all.

Now, before anyone says something they might regret, their reason for not getting the vaccine was out of concern for the side effects and they had planned on getting it "within a year". They weren't an outright "anti-vaxxer"; I can understand people being abundantly cautious about that--however, he works in a casino and just went to San Diego for a two-week vacation during an ongoing pandemic, so...yeah.

I've said it before--and linked experts saying it--and I'll say it again: the side effects from the vaccine are far, far milder than the side effects of COVID. Don't let the fear-mongering assholes from the GQP talk you out of it. Get your jabs.

If you're not sure about the vaccine, then intentionally jump into the unwashed masses of humanity for a vacation...here's your sign.

[postman1782]

From Nevada:

Father of 5 Dies After Texting Fiancée, 'I Should Have Gotten the Damn Vaccine'

You can click to read the article if you like but the headline pretty much says it all.

Now, before anyone says something they might regret, their reason for not getting the vaccine was out of concern for the side effects and they had planned on getting it "within a year". They weren't an outright "anti-vaxxer"; I can understand people being abundantly cautious about that--however, he works in a casino and just went to San Diego for a two-week vacation during an ongoing pandemic, so...yeah.

I've said it before--and linked experts saying it--and I'll say it again: the side effects from the vaccine are far, far milder than the side effects of COVID. Don't let the fear-mongering assholes from the GQP talk you out of it. Get your jabs.

Yeah, I have a couple of friends I have played WoW and other games with that are now both nurses, at a VA hospital in Kentucky, they literally just told me about a 33 year old guy that was begging for the vaccine, as he was about to be sedated and put on a ventilator. Really fucking sad seeing or hearing about these people, begging as they are struggling to breathe and not knowing they are already too late to be saved.

[beanman12345]

From Nevada:

Father of 5 Dies After Texting Fiancée, 'I Should Have Gotten the Damn Vaccine'

You can click to read the article if you like but the headline pretty much says it all.

Now, before anyone says something they might regret, their reason for not getting the vaccine was out of concern for the side effects and they had planned on getting it "within a year". They weren't an outright "anti-vaxxer"; I can understand people being abundantly cautious about that--however, he works in a casino and just went to San Diego for a two-week vacation during an ongoing pandemic, so...yeah.

I've said it before--and linked experts saying it--and I'll say it again: the side effects from the vaccine are far, far milder than the side effects of COVID. Don't let the fear-mongering assholes from the GQP talk you out of it. Get your jabs.

Eh, it's not less dumb a reason than 5G bots taking over, just not as outlandish a reason as that.

[Benggaul]

Man, I see this shit so much. How fuckin soft are people, seriously? Like, ain't nobody ever had the flu before? Got punched in the arm hard and had a nasty bruise for a day or two? I just don't fuckin get it, man.

There has been a lot of scaremongering surrounding blood clots and heart problems (you may have seen some of the disingenuous posters referencing them in a few threads on these forums) that has put a lot of people off the vaccine. Experts have said that you're actually more likely to get those issues without the vaccine and the "heart issues" the fraction of a percentage of people get from the vaccines are both mild and temporary, but the damage has already been done.

Edit: In fact, here's a link with some useful info about the heart "risk":

Israel reports link between rare cases of heart inflammation and COVID-19 vaccination in young men

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. “I can’t imagine it’s going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn’t vaccinate kids,” says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children’s Hospital.
...
“From a parent’s perspective, this really comes down to risk perception, assessment of the data,” says Diekema, who has studied risk-benefit trade-offs. Even if a link between myocarditis and the vaccine holds up, the condition is usually mild, requiring treatment only with anti-inflammatory drugs, whereas COVID-19 infection can also cause serious disease and long-term side effects, even in young people. As suspicion has percolated about a possible connection, “I don’t know many physicians who are changing their minds about vaccinating their kids,” Diekema says.

There has been a lot of anti-vaxx rhetoric surrounding this that's frightening a few non-anti-vaxxers. And, as has been pointed out, it's nothing to fear, ultimately.

[tehdang]

There has been a lot of scaremongering surrounding blood clots and heart problems (you may have seen some of the disingenuous posters referencing them in a few threads on these forums) that has put a lot of people off the vaccine. Experts have said that you're actually more likely to get those issues without the vaccine and the "heart issues" the fraction of a percentage of people get from the vaccines are both mild and temporary, but the damage has already been done.

As long as you don’t see the Biden admins pause in J&J as blood clot scaremongering I suppose.

New vaccinations of all varieties hit a small plateau after that.

[Edge-]

As long as you don’t see the Biden admins pause in J&J as blood clot scaremongering I suppose.

New vaccinations of all varieties hit a small plateau after that.

A 10-day pause to investigate reports, that ended with them continuing to recommend the vaccine. For 6 cases amongst 6.8 million doses.

Yeah, it's very much scaremongering, this is pretty routine stuff.

[Benggaul]

As long as you don’t see the Biden admins pause in J&J as blood clot scaremongering I suppose.

New vaccinations of all varieties hit a small plateau after that.

That was a misstep and an overabundance of caution. There were 6 reported cases of blood clots (and one death) out of 6.8 million administered doses as of the pause. Meanwhile, close to 20% of COVID patients admitted to the ICU develop blood clots. The media took that and ran with it and anti-vaxxers used it as proof that they were right.

[Kaleredar]

Man, I see this shit so much. How fuckin soft are people, seriously? Like, ain't nobody ever had the flu before? Got punched in the arm hard and had a nasty bruise for a day or two? I just don't fuckin get it, man.

there's a lot of misinformation about it causing cancer or miscarriages or simply that the "risks are too unknown," in addition to all the people that don't believe COVID is dangerous/ won't take it out of principle because they don't want "the libs" telling them what to do.

[Edge-]

there's a lot of misinformation about it causing cancer or miscarriages or simply that the "risks are too unknown," in addition to all the people that don't believe COVID is dangerous/ won't take it out of principle because they don't want "the libs" telling them what to do.

I know about the misinformation and my post wasn't about that. That's a whole other ball of wax. This is just the, "Oh, I don't want to feel sick for a few days." poo babies that know the vaccine is safe/will work but just don't want to feel like crap for a day or two.

[Nastard]

There were 6 reported cases of blood clots (and one death) out of 6.8 million administered doses as of the pause. Meanwhile, close to 20% of COVID patients admitted to the ICU develop blood clots. The media took that and ran with it and anti-vaxxers used it as proof that they were right.

It's hilarious that the anti-vaxxers use the argument that Covid death's aren't really that bad because people ACTUALLY died to "pre-existing conditions" yet would never use that same mindset to explain the 6 cases of blood clots.

Anyway, I've heard a lot of people making fun of Biden's potential plan to give $100 to anyone who gets vaccinated. The argument is that 600,000 deaths weren't enough to change their minds so $100 won't either. At surface value it seems to be a valid point. However, I think it's genius. At this point, most unvaccinated are Republicans and if there's one thing you can be certain of is that most will sell out their values in a SECOND for a paltry sum of cash. Hell, offer a beer and a promise that no one will tell their friends that they got vaccinated and it'd probably be enough.

[Breccia]

"risks are too unknown,"

"I don't want to be a guinea pig!"
"You already are. You've just volunteered to be in the control group."

[Benggaul]

It's hilarious that the anti-vaxxers use the argument that Covid death's aren't really that bad because people ACTUALLY died to "pre-existing conditions" yet would never use that same mindset to explain the 6 cases of blood clots.

Anyway, I've heard a lot of people making fun of Biden's potential plan to give $100 to anyone who gets vaccinated. The argument is that 600,000 deaths weren't enough to change their minds so $100 won't either. At surface value it seems to be a valid point. However, I think it's genius. At this point, most unvaccinated are Republicans and if there's one thing you can be certain of is that most will sell out their values in a SECOND for a paltry sum of cash. Hell, offer a beer and a promise that no one will tell their friends that they got vaccinated and it'd probably be enough.

I read about that plan and I'm all--....Stupid sexy Flanders.

Anyway, I'm all for it. It's another carrot that might push a few more people to get vaccinated. A couple of states have already said they'd do it (though if I recall they were obviously not the states that NEED people to be incentivized).

[Kaleredar]

"I don't want to be a guinea pig!"
"You already are. You've just volunteered to be in the control group."

And again, they'd counter with "well I'm more willing to accept the risks of COVID than of an unknown vaccine!"


...not knowing, of course, that you can't transmit the risks of the vaccine, but you can transmit COVID. There are also people weighing in with "look at all the people who had gotten the vaccine but are getting COVID anyway, it doesn't even work!" despite a 95% effectiveness rating still meaning a 5% ineffectiveness rating.

[Nellise]

Anyway, I've heard a lot of people making fun of Biden's potential plan to give $100 to anyone who gets vaccinated. The argument is that 600,000 deaths weren't enough to change their minds so $100 won't either. At surface value it seems to be a valid point. However, I think it's genius. At this point, most unvaccinated are Republicans and if there's one thing you can be certain of is that most will sell out their values in a SECOND for a paltry sum of cash. Hell, offer a beer and a promise that no one will tell their friends that they got vaccinated and it'd probably be enough.

There are many areas with low vaccination rates that aren't Republican. Here's a map of Chicago's vaccinations: https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-covi...tions/9037991/

Most of the areas that are very low are black neighborhoods that are almost certainly not Republican areas (Biden won Chicago with 82% of the vote). There are various reasons they're so low, but being Republican certainly isn't it, and other kinds of outreach might work in these areas.

[Breccia]

One of the main factors driving differences in COVID-19 vaccination rates across the country is partisanship. Our surveys consistently find that Democrats are much more likely to report having been vaccinated than Republicans, and Republicans are much more likely to say that they definitely do not want to get vaccinated. In May, just as vaccine supply was starting to outstrip demand, we examined average vaccination rates by county and found that rates were lower in counties that voted for Trump in the 2020 Presidential election compared to those that voted for Biden. Now, two months later, we find that not only does this remain the case, the gap has grown.


We obtained data on the share of the population fully vaccinated by county from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) COVID-19 Integrated County View and data on the 2020 Presidential election results by county from here (for more detailed methods, see: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...aracteristics/). To create a longer time series, we also looked at vaccination rates in April 2021.

While the share of the total population that is fully vaccinated has increased for both county groups, it has increased faster in counties that voted for Biden, resulting in a widening gap. Three months ago, as of April 22, the average vaccination rate in counties that voted for Trump was 20.6% compared to 22.8% in Biden counties, yielding a relatively small gap of 2.2 percentage points. By May 11, the gap had increased to 6.5% and by July 6, 11.7%, with the average vaccination rate in Trump counties at 35% compared to 46.7% in Biden counties.

Although there has been an overall significant slow-down in COVID-19 vaccination rates in the U.S., these findings show a widening divide of communities at risk for COVID-19 along partisan lines. A key component of any effort to boost vaccination rates among Republicans will be identifying the right messengers. According to our Vaccine Monitor, which tracks the public’s attitudes and experiences with COVID-19 vaccinations, Republicans are most likely to trust their doctors and employers to provide reliable information on COVID-19 vaccines, while government sources are less trusted. Going forward, efforts that focus on these messengers, including President Biden’s recent announcement to augment vaccination distribution through doctor’s offices, may help, but there is a hardcore group of vaccine resisters who are disproportionately Republican and will be difficult to move.

Pointing out the partisan divide between vaccination rates is as easy as it is objectively correct.

- - - Updated - - -

you can't transmit the risks of the vaccine, but you can transmit COVID.

This is an excellent point. Microcips are not contagious. (kidding)

But yeah, we've been talking a lot about six out of six million for the vaccine versus the mortality rate of COVID. While tracking down an exact mortality rate isn't simple, the USA 7 days ago was averaging 70,000 cases/day and currently averaging 275 deaths/day, so I'd napkin math 0.4%. In 2019, there were 34 million cases of the flu and 34 thousand deaths, so a mortality rate of 0.1%, so the 0.4% doesn't seem that far off.

COVID seems about four thousand times deadlier than the vaccine.

But hey, scratch that lottery ticket. You never know.

Also, earlier this year COVID was the #1 killer in the USA. Vaccines have never been the #1 killer in any country.

[Nellise]

Pointing out the partisan divide between vaccination rates is as easy as it is objectively correct.

Judging based on counties is pretty moronic. Trump won nearly 6 times as many counties as Biden last election. Cook County, Illinois alone has 5.15 million people in it. Suggesting that it is some monolithic entity with uniform vaccinations across it doesn't help anything. As shown in the zip code map, just in Chicago rates can range anywhere from about 30% to 70% and it's not because of a partisan divide. Ignoring what those communities with low vaccination rates in Democratic areas need (nearly 600k people live in zips with under 40% vaccinations in Chicago) because you believe only Republicans have low vaccination rates is putting politics above people's health, which I hope you're not doing.

[Fugus]

Judging based on counties is pretty moronic. Trump won nearly 6 times as many counties as Biden last election. Cook County, Illinois alone has 5.15 million people in it. Suggesting that it is some monolithic entity with uniform vaccinations across it doesn't help anything. As shown in the zip code map, just in Chicago rates can range anywhere from 30% to 70% and it's not because of a partisan divide (there are a few zip codes higher than 70, but those are business/hospital district zips where few people live). Ignoring what those communities with low vaccination rates in Democratic areas need because you believe only Republicans have low vaccination rates is putting politics above people's health, which I hope you're not doing.

I personally can't make any of those claims but anecdotally, virtually everyone I have seen who refuses to get vaccinated were Trump supporters or those who have zero political interests who have lots of them as friends and are listening to them with one exception being a family who have actual medical issues with getting vaccinated in the past according to them.

As far as having more districts that go towards Trump, that really isn't saying much when you look at how the GOP has twisted stuff to steal representation from Gerrymandering, including Prison Gerrymandering, and outright banning people from voting or making it near impossible for them to qualify to vote in those areas or having access to it even if they qualify.

I personally haven't really seen those anti-vaxxers from the Democratic people at all from anyone with any actual political knowledge at all. All of them have been from people who aren't political at all while listening to the lies from Republicans whom they are friends with.

[Nellise]

I personally can't make any of those claims but anecdotally, virtually everyone I have seen who refuses to get vaccinated were Trump supporters or those who have zero political interests who have lots of them as friends and are listening to them with one exception being a family who have actual medical issues with getting vaccinated in the past according to them.

As far as having more districts that go towards Trump, that really isn't saying much when you look at how the GOP has twisted stuff to steal representation from Gerrymandering, including Prison Gerrymandering, and outright banning people from voting or making it near impossible for them to qualify to vote in those areas or having access to it even if they qualify.

I personally haven't really seen those anti-vaxxers from the Democratic people at all from anyone with any actual political knowledge at all. All of them have been from people who aren't political at all while listening to the lies from Republicans whom they are friends with.

And that's what I'm trying to point out: the loudest Republican morons are drowning out discussion of low vaccination rates in areas for other reasons. The divide in Cook County isn't because of politics, it's almost all because of race. Not only is there a big disparity in the city of Chicago, but the suburbs also show the same divide: https://www.wbez.org/stories/vaccina...7-c76a7b93f1e9, going from over 80% in a wealthy white suburb all the way down to under 20% in some majority black suburbs. From the article: "She said the stark differences in vaccination rates between Cook County suburbs can be attributed to several factors: a lack of transportation, fewer hospitals and clinics in the south suburbs, and distrust of the health care system among the Black community." These are people that can be reached because it's not idealistic or political really for them. But to ignore them because "only Republicans" have low vaccination rates and they deserve what they get is dooming these communities just to score ideological points.

[Bodakane]

Judging based on counties is pretty moronic. Trump won nearly 6 times as many counties as Biden last election. Cook County, Illinois alone has 5.15 million people in it. Suggesting that it is some monolithic entity with uniform vaccinations across it doesn't help anything. As shown in the zip code map, just in Chicago rates can range anywhere from about 30% to 70% and it's not because of a partisan divide. Ignoring what those communities with low vaccination rates in Democratic areas need (nearly 600k people live in zips with under 40% vaccinations in Chicago) because you believe only Republicans have low vaccination rates is putting politics above people's health, which I hope you're not doing.

That was one of the more absurd mental gymnastic takes I've seen on here in awhile.

Trump voters, by and large, are the reason for overall low vaccination rates. That was Breccia's point and it was obvious that was his point.