Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

What I said initially is not incorrect in any way; slavery was a thing of the economy for the South.

It was, and their respective economies weren't threatened. Slavery would have remained in the Southern states.

The North infringed upon that.

This is a baldface lie. The North did nothing of the sort, the nation decided not to expand slavery westward, the Southern states went to war over that.

I simply didn't have the full picture and all the details down about "westward expansion", but no, I do not need to "open a god-damned actual history book" to understand that it was a thing of economy.

Given that you don't understand the details or picture, or context, you god-damned do. Because you're still shilling pro-Confederate revisionist lies.

[Magnagarde]

I'm still waiting for you to give a reason for how this ISN'T just extremely thinly veiled racism for keeping people out, because you're holding immigrants to a significantly higher standard than the natives you're holding as some kind.

Of course I'm holding immigrants to higher standards, that is the only logical thing to do. Those who were born into a state/nation already have to follow domestic laws and have a higher probability of having an understanding of said domestic laws than someone who is coming from someplace else.

Not all migrants are being held to much higher standards to begin with; citizens of formers colonies have facilitated mechanisms of immigration in place. This is true for France and many others.

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It was, and their respective economies weren't threatened. Slavery would have remained in the Southern states.

According to what you described, the expansion of their economy through slavery was hindered. It is still a reason of economy. European colonial superpowers went to war against eachother over the prevention of economic expansion through colonisation too. It is the same concept.

To endanger an economy is not just a thing of outright prevention of economic flow, but the expansion thereof aswell.

Because you're still shilling pro-Confederate revisionist lies.

I don't think I do because all that I was wrong about was, according to your history update for me, is that the Union didn't want to prevent slavery where it already existed, but simply didn't want it to expand and that.. well, things went South(pun intended). One sentence of an update to my understanding of it doesn't require a book to be read. Instead of telling me to read a book, you could write a sentence or two and we'd have an understanding from the get-go.

I have no interest in shilling "pro-Confederate lies", but I have no problem with you entertaining the thought because this percieved shilling simply isn't true.

PS As this thread is about Trump, with us seemingly discussing unrelated things now and the topic in danger of derailing into one of those discussions that are annoyingly endemic to the internet of the past couple of years... Trump's persona has value as a meme for comedic relief to me and I'll leave it at that.

[Rozz]

Get back on topic. I'm aware some of you tried, but here's an official reminder.

[DarkTZeratul]

I don't think I do because all that I was wrong about was, according to your history update for me, is that the Union didn't want to prevent slavery where it already existed, but simply didn't want it to expand and that.. well, things went South(pun intended). One sentence of an update to my understanding of it doesn't require a book to be read. Instead of telling me to read a book, you could write a sentence or two and we'd have an understanding from the get-go.

Remember, this all started because you said this:

If you mean the Civil war in the US, I can tell you that as an outside observer I see it as more of a war for preserving a central and federal government, with economy and politics as the background, rather than exclusively slavery. For the Confederation, slavery was primarily an economic factor and I imagine that is why they so vehemently defended it.

This is extremely, fundamentally, wrong. Slavery was explicitly the issue, not the economy or politics. And the Confederacy did not see slavery as "primarily an economic factor," they saw it as being a fucking law of nature. After they lost, they tried to reframe it as a matter of state versus federal government. You've already admitted that "Nowhere have I had the chance to read about it," so maybe take it from the people who actually HAVE read about it instead of vehemently insisting upon the accuracy of your vague understanding of revisionist history?

We've written far more than "a sentence or two" on the matter, and I even shared a speech from the Vice President of the Confederacy that leaves no room for misunderstanding.

[Slirith]

Get back on topic. I'm aware some of you tried, but here's an official reminder.

Then ban the idiots who keeps derailing and those who keep responding to them.

[postman1782]

MAGA Trump supporter Candace Owens sued by MAGA Trump supporter failed congressional candidate for Maryland, for $20 million.

What is being alleged in the suit is that Candace Owens defamed Kimberly Klacik in an instagram video. Saying that she was using campaign funds to buy cocaine and was a "madame" for a strip club, which led to Klacik losing a book deal and politicians pulling out of fundraising events for her. Candace Owens said in the video that she is not an investigative journalist, she doesn't even qualify for normal journalist, and that she couldn't confirm the allegations, but reported them anyway.

Yeah, sounds like a good way to lose $20 million.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...dace-owens-for

I just love the professional grifter friendly fire that is going on right here by conservative morons though. It's hilarious.

[TexasRules]

Let me remind you, @TexasRules and other Trump defenders, and everyone else what Trump said while campaigning and running:



Literally none of that happened. Trump either lied, or he was incompetent. There is no third option.

Why are you libeling me? Please post anywhere that I defended Trump. I do give you credit for not shitposting offtopic covid stuff and actually keeping to the thread topic. But again, you have no posts where I defended Trump. But keep up the offtopic posting, it seems to be the specialty of most people here.

[Azadina]

Why are you libeling me? Please post anywhere that I defended Trump. I do give you credit for not shitposting offtopic covid stuff and actually keeping to the thread topic. But again, you have no posts where I defended Trump. But keep up the offtopic posting, it seems to be the specialty of most people here.

Easy, considering you posted one Trump defense post immediately after this one. 4 minutes later to be precise. Do you really think someone is buying what you're trying to sell with this?

[Dontrike]

Why are you libeling me? Please post anywhere that I defended Trump. I do give you credit for not shitposting offtopic covid stuff and actually keeping to the thread topic. But again, you have no posts where I defended Trump. But keep up the offtopic posting, it seems to be the specialty of most people here.

*slaps button* "That was easy" and of course you stated you would vote for Trump, so there's that.

I've played this game against you before, found a dozen or so examples at that time, but this time it took 30 seconds.

[Zaydin]

*slaps button* "That was easy" and of course you stated you would vote for Trump, so there's that.

I've played this game against you before, found a dozen or so examples at that time, but this time it took 30 seconds.

He's not going to admit to it, you know that.

The only thing Trump supporters live for is 'pwning teh libs' and admitting you were right would be humiliating to him. It's why they always move goalposts, use whataboutisms or outright try to gaslight.

It's the same reason why Governor DeathSentence here in Florida isn't admitting that his policies regarding COVID have failed; he's put too much at stake politically over it and backing down would be admitting defeat and that liberals were right, which would kill his future ambitions due to Trump supporters viewing it as 'surrendering' to liberals.

[Fugus]

Get back on topic. I'm aware some of you tried, but here's an official reminder.

As another has said, then go after the ones causing it.

I mean look at TexasRules. He has been caught lying countless times and posting in bad faith, he is still here along with others who do the same.

If nothing is done attempted by warnings and Sabre rattling, then nothing gets accomplished.

[Benggaul]

Tuesday's report:

147,619 new cases, about 1k more than last week. I expect that will increase a bit as corrections come in, but it's encouraging that it's less of a difference than previous weeks.

Top 10:

Fuck Florida (over 21k according to worldometers).
Texas: 17,403 new cases; 215 deaths
California: 14,583 new cases; 74 deaths
Georgia: 9,186 new cases; 46 deaths
Tennessee: 5,153 new cases; 31 deaths
Kentucky: 4,626 new cases; 17 deaths
North Carolina: 4,623 new cases; 32 deaths
Ohio: 4,117 new cases; 10 deaths
Minnesota: 3,837 new cases; 8 deaths
Louisiana: 3,814 new cases; 139 deaths (new record)

Florida's 7-day has been a bit of a plateau lately but, as usual, we can't really trust their numbers. DeathSantis has done all he could to obfuscate the truth here (while promoting a drug/treatment that he received a payday for, naturally) and while Florida's death totals aren't reflecting the truth, their hospitalization rates and 20+% positivity rate (yes, still) tell the story. Florida is fucked. There are seven states listed at the highest risk level (severe) and those are Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, West Virginia and South Carolina. What do all of these have in common? Trump country. It's not a coincidence. Low vaccination rates and, thanks largely to Trump, no willingness to go along with simple safety precautions like wearing masks and social distancing. "But it's the warm climate driving people indoors that's making things so bad there!" No, it's not. California's positivity is staying steady just over 6%, their numbers have consistently been much lower per 100k pop than most other states and they have mask mandates (and, more crucially, no BAN on mask mandates like the Trumpian governors of Texas and Florida) and higher vaccination rates.

1,134 deaths is about 100 more than last Tuesday and brings the total to 648,161. I'm still putting Florida at the top for, as @Breccia puts it, lying. Texas, however, might legitimately have it as over 200 more people mastered the pandemic and Louisiana took third with over 100. I had to dig out the red text again to mark their record. Even if new case numbers are starting to taper off in many areas we all know by now that deaths lag behind by a week or two, so we will continue to see this climb for a while. I'm still optimistic that we won't be reaching 2k this time around, but even passing 1k again is demoralizing.

Related news:

After slow start, demand for COVID monoclonal antibodies treatment skyrockets--Because why have a cheap, effective vaccine when extremely expensive treatments touted by rich people who are paid to endorse them is available?

Pentagon to require troops to get Covid vaccines ASAP--As I've said before: good! Troops have to get jabs before being deployed to various areas of the world, they'd damn well better be getting this one.

No more ICU beds in Arkansas for COVID-19 patients, governor says--Another week, another state struggling with full ICUs.

NRA cancels annual meeting in Texas due to Covid--How bad are things in Texas? Even the fucking gun nuts are giving large events a wide berth.

Stay safe, folks.

EDIT: OH, one thing I forgot to mention. Last Tuesday South Dakota's case count was 395. This Tuesday it was 785. It's still too early to see exactly how bad things are, but the timing of this suggests it's the result of the ill-advised Sturgis rally.

DOUBLE EDIT: Or maybe it's not "too early" after all:

South Dakota Covid cases quintuple after Sturgis motorcycle rally

Meade County, home to Sturgis, has had a more than 1,500 percent increase in cases in the past 14 days.

Play stupid games, yadda, yadda, yadda.

[Breccia]

Louisiana: 3,814 new cases; 139 deaths (new record)

I find this legit concerning. Louisiana had a real issue with Mardi Gras. It's late August -- there's no reason for a seaonal event (cough Sturgis cough cough hack wheeze *thud*) to cause the current situation. I don't think this is a spike. And while Benggaul doesn't list hospitalizations or testing, those are all high, too.

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Judge rules Abbott cannot enforce the mask ban ban.

Not federal yet.

The judge's ruling backs up the plaintiff, another judge, who apparently knew exactly how to sue and how.

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As expected, the House Jan 6th panel has asked the WH to turn over everything.

The National Archives, more precisely, is asked to turn over WH, FBI, DHS etc. communications between Trump and other top people. If there's anything in there that looks like Trump telling people to back off stopping a murderous insurrection, Biden's about to get a hard pass on Afghanistan.

[Benggaul]

I find this legit concerning. Louisiana had a real issue with Mardi Gras. It's late August -- there's no reason for a seaonal event (cough Sturgis cough cough hack wheeze *thud*) to cause the current situation. I don't think this is a spike. And while Benggaul doesn't list hospitalizations or testing, those are all high, too.

Delta ain't nothing to fuck around with. It's very contagious and spreads quickly. If you have a populace with a low vaccination rate and they're ignoring advice like "wear a fucking mask" then it's going to be a huge problem. Their ICUs have been swelling with cases all month. I'm sure Florida is nearly equally as bad though we'll likely never hear the reality of it.

I read in a recent poll (can't find it now; will look later) that the majority of Florida believes the recent wave in their state was entirely avoidable, so there's at least there might be a hit to DeathSantis' popularity in there. I doubt it'll keep them from reelecting him and getting a non-Trumper in, but at least it's something.

[Breccia]

there might be a hit to DeathSantis' popularity in there.

Even in Florida, DeSantis has a problem. 59% of his own state don't want him to run, and 53% of his own state disapprove of Biden.

Ouch.

[DarkTZeratul]

Delta ain't nothing to fuck around with. It's very contagious and spreads quickly.

Last week CBS's chief medical correspondent was on the Late Show and told Colbert that he expects us to see 200k cases per day again, partly due to Delta's high infection rate (the other part is misinformation/disinformation). Whereas someone with the Alpha strain would infect two other people on average, someone with the Delta strain will infect an average of five other people.

[Benggaul]

Last week CBS's chief medical correspondent was on the Late Show and told Colbert that he expects us to see 200k cases per day again, partly due to Delta's high infection rate (the other part is misinformation/disinformation). Whereas someone with the Alpha strain would infect two other people on average, someone with the Delta strain will infect an average of five other people.

It's possible, seeing as we went as high as 180k just last week. One mitigating factor is that it seems hoards of people have finally been scared into getting the vaccine they should have had to begin with, so maybe we can minimize the damage. Still doesn't protect the children from bans on mask mandates, but at least that's being fought locally as well.

[DarkTZeratul]

It's possible, seeing as we went as high as 180k just last week. One mitigating factor is that it seems hoards of people have finally been scared into getting the vaccine they should have had to begin with, so maybe we can minimize the damage. Still doesn't protect the children from bans on mask mandates, but at least that's being fought locally as well.

And hopefully, the FDA giving full approval to the Pfizer vaccine works for some of the people who were hesitant of the emergency approval. As for children, said correspondent also said he expects to see approval for that around the end of September. Granted, that's only an informed guess, but it's still something.

[Fugus]

And hopefully, the FDA giving full approval to the Pfizer vaccine works for some of the people who were hesitant of the emergency approval. As for children, said correspondent also said he expects to see approval for that around the end of September. Granted, that's only an informed guess, but it's still something.

None of my friends appear to be... They say the approval came too fast and then went back onto government control and tracking....

[DarkTZeratul]

None of my friends appear to be... They say the approval came too fast and then went back onto government control and tracking....

Yes, well, it only works if you were actually concerned about the emergency approval and not just using that as a convenient excuse.