Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Gorsameth]

My predicted retcon from the GOP mouthpieces:

"Why is the government deciding that these documents are top secret? What are they trying to hide?!?"

In before the DoJ (or WH) releases what the documents were about, and they go 'oh shit yeah we should hide that stuff' but have to publicly try and spin it.

[cubby]

Putting aside charges and convictions. I am talking about the GOP (McConnell in particular) probably won't go near Trump now that this has dropped. Sure Majorie Greene will hand wave this away. But the smart side of the GOP knows toxic when they see it. And Trump just hit 11 on the toxic meter.

I would think some of the more moderate GQP'ers would be backing away at this point. Trump has essentially committed multiple felonies having those documents at his home.

However, we must also remember that the GQP collective, the literal willfully ignorant masses, can't believe their Golden Calf does anything wrong. So this will also be handwaved away by whatever talking points they release (@TexasRules - when you get those let us know).

And, yet again, we find ourselves looking down the GQP abyss. Obviously almost everything is uncertain, but if true and this goes unpunished, I don't see how the U.S. survives as it exists today.

[Edge-]

MtG's latest tweet is a retweet about what she's doing. Her feed is basically about this right now.

She's almost a full year late to that party - https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...ution/743/text

Rep. Scott Perry of PA did it in October of 2021.

[cubby]

She's almost a full year late to that party - https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...ution/743/text

Rep. Scott Perry of PA did it in October of 2021.

(and @UnifiedDivide)

This is what I mean when I say that the GQP controlled House of Reps in 2023 will be running through multiple Impeachments on a weekly basis.

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(@TexasRules - when you get those let us know)

Did he change his name or something else?

[Mekh]

https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/...30987387883520

Trump is fundraising off the possibility he had classified nuclear material. Don't believe me?

So, I know this barely matters, considering the pace at which this thread is moving, but according to Reuters, this is fake.

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Did he change his name or something else?

Looks normal to me. https://www.mmo-champion.com/members/779582-TexasRules

[Edge-]

So, I know this barely matters, considering the pace at which this thread is moving, but according to Reuters, this is fake.

Ah, thanks. Sauce for anyone interested - https://apnews.com/article/fact-chec...h-468453367102

Updated my post with this link as well so I don't spread misinformation. But it's sad that I 100% believed he would actually fundraise like this in an attempt to downplay the seriousness of him possibly selling classified nuclear information to a foreign country.

[postman1782]

My predicted retcon from the GOP mouthpieces:

"Why is the government deciding that these documents are top secret? What are they trying to hide?!?"

Trump blamed Obama, saying he took all these documents, but the problem is, they aren't classified and were already copied by the National Archives for the presidential records act.

[Gorsameth]

Trump blamed Obama, saying he took all these documents, but the problem is, they aren't classified and were already copied by the National Archives for the presidential records act.

just feel the need to correct this. Obama didn't take them. The Obama Presidential Library is run by the National Archive. They still have the documents, they just choose to have them accessible to the public.

Trump could have done the same, if he turned his over... (and ofc not with actual nuclear secrets....)

[Kaleredar]

Trump blamed Obama, saying he took all these documents, but the problem is, they aren't classified and were already copied by the National Archives for the presidential records act.

"I thought what someone else did was illegal so that's why I did it too" isn't a great defense.

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Did he change his name or something else?

If you're looking for right-wing posters I think you're limited to Tehdang, D3athray, and spectral (probably some misspellings in there; I don't care enough to know their specific names.) Those are the only ones I'm moderately sure actually live in the United States.... I'm about 30/70 on Zeth Hawkins. I'm pretty sure the remaining right-wing presenting posters are all foreigners who otherwise just post to be contrarian trolls.


It's possible more of them skulk around that gun thread; I don't care enough to ever check in there.

[Edge-]

https://www.denverpost.com/2022/08/1...nce-calls-911/

Wanna hear the 911 call that Boebert's neighbors made as her husband was driving over his mailbox?

Garfield County Sheriff’s deputies decided to let neighbors of U.S. Rep. Lauren Boebert settle a dispute between themselves and the congresswoman’s husband after he reportedly threatened them and destroyed their mailbox.

But 911 calls from the incident, obtained by The Denver Post, show just how upset and nervous the neighbors were over their run-in with Boebert’s husband, Jayson Boebert.

The calls also provide additional context into what the neighbors, in Silt, said amounted to excessive speeding, property damage, possible drunken driving and threats made from a man whose family openly and regularly carries their firearms.

“I’m sure he’s loaded to the hilt. Do you know who his wife is? Lauren Boebert. She’s loaded. They all have guns,” one neighbor told a 911 dispatcher. “He just got chest to chest, face to face, looking to fight.”

That additional context from the calls appears to match the limited information available in reports from Garfield County deputies. But still, Sheriff’s Office spokesman Walter Stowe refused to say why deputies didn’t investigate further and would not provide any additional information.

The apparent inaction drove the head of American Muckrakers — a political group looking to oust Boebert — to ask Colorado Attorney General Phil Weiser, the local district attorney and the Colorado Bureau of Investigations to investigate the relationship between the congresswoman’s family and the Sheriff’s Office.

“This was clearly a serious situation as there were two 911 calls, five deputies and at least four families involved,” David Wheeler, head of American Muckrakers, wrote in an email asking for the investigation.

The incident began in the evening hours of Aug. 4, after a neighbor flagged down one of Boebert’s sons asking him to stop speeding up and down their street in a dune buggy, according to the calls and a short incident report filed by deputies.

“He’s going like 50 miles an hour and this is a residential lane, there’s kids,” one neighbor, told 911 dispatchers, according to the audio. “We tried to stop him and he’d just freakin’ cuss at us and just left.”

That neighbor could not immediately be reached for comment, but she was so flustered that she had a difficult time recalling her own phone number when asked by the dispatcher.

“It’s the Boeberts, if you know who the Boeberts are,” she said. “I need the sheriff out here.”

“Our wonderful congresswoman,” someone else said in the background.

By the time the second neighbor called 911, deputies hadn’t yet arrived. During that call, Jayson Boebert reportedly began to run the second neighbor’s mailbox over in a truck.

“There’s about to be some s— going down here,” the second neighbor told dispatchers. “It’s Lauren Boebert’s jackass husband, Jayson Boebert.”

During the call the second neighbor can be heard yelling at Jayson Boebert.

“Stop, you jackass! Get the f— out of here,” he yelled. “Come on, man. What are you doing? What did we do wrong?”

Jayson Boebert did not respond to a message seeking comment, nor did the second neighbor. However, over the phone, the second neighbor told the 911 dispatcher that Jayson Boebert had driven to their house with his son “trying to claim that someone took a swing at his kid and nobody did.”

He calls Jayson Boebert “dumb as a post” and “irrational,” then expresses concern about the being threatened and more.

“Jayson’s probably drunk. You could probably get him for a DUI, he just drove down here,” he said.

Eventually deputies arrived and Sheriff Lou Vallario previously told The Post that everybody had “agreed to work it out as neighbors. No charges. No further action.”

Confronted about the additional context provided by the 911 calls, Stowe on Friday would not, however, say whether deputies declined to investigate further.

Lawrence Pacheco, a spokesman for Attorney General Phil Weiser, confirmed the office had received Wheeler’s request to investigate Wheeler’s message. Representatives from the Colorado Bureau of Investigations and 9th Judicial District Attorney Jefferson Cheney’s office did not immediately reply to requests for comment.

Jayson Boebert was previously arrested in 2004 and pleaded guilty to public indecency and lewd exposure after exposing himself to two minors in a bowling alley. The congresswoman who is not mentioned in any account as being present during the Aug. 4 incident also has a history of minor arrests and failures to appear in court. Vallario supported her first run for office in 2020.

Lauren Boebert is currently running for a second term in Congress against former Aspen City Councilman Adam Frisch.

Their kid was speeding down the streets, neighbors ask the kid to slow down, husband comes out and claims that they threatened his kid and tried to start fights with all the neighbors as a result. And ran over the callers mailbox. Caller things Jason, the husband, is drunk and fears that he or his wife is armed.

And a second call from another neighbor reporting the Boebert kid for illegally speeding in a residential area.

This happened last week.

[Corvus]

The espionage act? Yowza.

Did anything damaging about Macron come out at the French elections? If so, maybe that is why Trump had classified documents on him.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/polit...rch/index.html

The FBI is investigating an "unprecedented" number of threats against bureau personnel and property in the wake of the search of former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, including some against agents listed in court records as being involved in the recent search, a law enforcement source tells CNN.

On Friday, the names of the two agents who signed the search warrant paperwork circulated online. The names had been included in a version of the search warrant that was leaked prior to the official unsealing of the documents. The version released by the court redacted the agents' names.

So Trump may have outed two FBI agents before the official release of the redacted search warrant.

I do not envy them and the unholy hellstorm they're facing, I hope the FBI is giving them and their families extra security protection for a while.

I'm trying to verify, but it sure doesn't seem like there's any analog to this from "leftists". Searching back during the Clinton investigation/campaign, including the "October Surprise", I don't see any reporting on involved agents being personally outed nor of unprecedented levels of threats against the agency.

It's almost like the violent rhetoric, threats, and largely actions, only seem to come from one side of the isle. Which also happens to be the anti-government side of the isle.

[Kaleredar]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/polit...rch/index.html



So Trump may have outed two FBI agents before the official release of the redacted search warrant.

I do not envy them and the unholy hellstorm they're facing, I hope the FBI is giving them and their families extra security protection for a while.

I'm trying to verify, but it sure doesn't seem like there's any analog to this from "leftists". Searching back during the Clinton investigation/campaign, including the "October Surprise", I don't see any reporting on involved agents being personally outed nor of unprecedented levels of threats against the agency.

It's almost like the violent rhetoric, threats, and largely actions, only seem to come from one side of the isle. Which also happens to be the anti-government side of the isle.

Threatening a federal agent is against the law.


But luckily for these threateners, it's not like they threatened a federal agency that's highly informed, highly funded and highly mobile that specializes in secrecy and information gathering that can function completely remotely and with basically no regard for any and all right-wing state governments that might try and protect said threateners from said federal agency, right?


Oh, wait...


A right-wing state government couldn't protect the former president from the FBI raiding his house. What hope does Billy Joe Bob in his shotgun shack have?

[Beefhammer]

"I thought what someone else did was illegal so that's why I did it too" isn't a great defense.

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If you're looking for right-wing posters I think you're limited to Tehdang, D3athray, and spectral (probably some misspellings in there; I don't care enough to know their specific names.) Those are the only ones I'm moderately sure actually live in the United States.... I'm about 30/70 on Zeth Hawkins. I'm pretty sure the remaining right-wing presenting posters are all foreigners who otherwise just post to be contrarian trolls.


It's possible more of them skulk around that gun thread; I don't care enough to ever check in there.

My wife found it interesting this week, not a thing has shown up in her FB feed about any of this. Bombarded daily by political garbage, but not one mention of any of this on FB.

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(and @UnifiedDivide)

This is what I mean when I say that the GQP controlled House of Reps in 2023 will be running through multiple Impeachments on a weekly basis.

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Did he change his name or something else?

I'm still trying to figure out who midterm voter used to be. Such a disservice this forum is to allow shitty posters to hide behind name changes.

[masterhorus8]

I'm still trying to figure out who midterm voter used to be. Such a disservice this forum is to allow shitty posters to hide behind name changes.

It's Milchshake. If you check post history, anyone quoting them shows the old name used at the time.

[Poopymonster]

My wife found it interesting this week, not a thing has shown up in her FB feed about any of this. Bombarded daily by political garbage, but not one mention of any of this on FB.

The only thing on my FB feed was a person posting a meme.

80000 IRS agents?
*Kermit sipping tea*
Send them to Ukraine to find our tax dollars.

[Kathranis]

Didn't see it in this thread today. Honestly not sure if it belongs here, in the MAGA thread, the Jan 6th thread, or the Gun Control thread, but it applies to all four:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...al-media-posts

WILMINGTON, Ohio (AP) — A gunman who died in a shootout after trying to get inside the FBI’s Cincinnati office appeared to have posted calls on social media for FBI agents to be killed and for people to take up arms and “be ready for combat” in the wake of the search at Donald Trump’s home, a law enforcement official said.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I mean, I really think he thinks that's how it works.

I mean, I realize this is at least in part a joke, but you're probably closer to the truth than anyone else.

[RaoBurning]

I understand, but I have a pretty firm "no-death-penalty" stance in general. And IMO he serves as a better reminder/warning of the perils of electing Republicans to office as a permanent resident of a federal prison than he does as someone that gets the lethal injection while he cries about how this all can't be happening and isn't real.

Until DeSantis or some other dingus gets elected and pardons him. Doesn't help with the state stuff, I know, but getting those state convictions through is a gamble in my mind until the cell doors are welded shut. I agree broadly with the no death penalty stance, but I just can't help but shake the feeling that he'd absolutely come back and just make things even worse, somehow.

[Breccia]

Wow, I miss a few hours and this thread blows up? Is it beause @cubby is back?

Just kidding. The thread's explosion is...warranted.

NEW via Breitbart: Trump under investigation per search warrant for:
18 USC 2071 — Concealment, removal or mutilation

Called it!

18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defence information

Called it!

18 USC 1519 — Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations

Um...two out of three ain't bad?

As the NYState lawsuit(s) against Trump's businesses and employees continues, Trump finds himself surrounded by talking points which have been summarily flattened. Yes, it was top secret documents. Yes, at least some are recovered. No, they weren't planted. No, Obama didn't do the same thing. And curiously enough, there's no record of them being declassified. I mean, if Trump declassified them before he left, would the National Archives and FBI still need them back? Funny story, as I cited a few days ago, if Trump actually wrote out a memo that these things were declassified, then lost the memo, that's also a crime. Anything filed with anyone, including the Oval Office, counts.

Now we've all seen the fake photo FOX News posted to make themselves look like idiots, the Breitbart thing where they shot themselves in the bone spurs, etc. I don't have much to add in this thread you guys haven't already caught. Trump's allies are struggling to find a valid defense.

Rep. Chris Stewart (R-Utah) added that the information may have had something to do with aliens.

This is the best Republicans have been able to muster since the news about the nuclear nature of the search broke on Thursday. Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee could only manage to complain about the fact that the information had allegedly been leaked. The ranking Republican on the committee, Ohio’s Jim Jordan, has as of Friday morning only been tweeting about Democrats and taxes. Same goes for Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and other Trump-loving members of Congress who blew their tops on Monday after Trump announced the raid.

So I'll do what you pay me for: cite the NYTimes.

Trump claims he declassified all the documents at Mar-a-Lago. Even if that’s true, it probably doesn’t matter.

Mr. Trump has offered no details, but if he is saying he made a blanket, oral invocation that all the files he took to Mar-a-Lago were unclassified, without making any formal, written record, that would be difficult to prove or disprove. Even if there is no evidence that Mr. Trump followed normal procedures for declassifying certain types of information, his lawyers could argue that he was not constitutionally bound to obey such rules.

Um...yes he is. The Constitution is a list of things the government isn't allowed to do.

But in any case, such a claim would not settle the matter. For one thing, two of the laws that a search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago this week referred to — Sections 1519 and 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code — make the taking or concealment of government records a crime regardless of whether they had anything to do with national security.

For another, laws against taking or hoarding material with restricted national-security information, which generally carry heavier penalties than theft of ordinary documents, do not always line up with whether the files are technically classified.

That is because some criminal laws enacted by Congress to protect certain national-security information operate separately from the executive branch’s system of classifying documents — created by presidents using executive orders — as “confidential,” “secret” or “top secret.”

In particular, a third law the warrant references was Section 793, which carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison per offense. Better known as the Espionage Act, it was enacted by Congress during World War I, decades before President Harry S. Truman issued an executive order creating the modern classification system for the executive branch.

As a result, the Espionage Act makes no reference to whether a document has been deemed classified. Instead, it makes it a crime to retain, without authorization, documents related to the national defense that could be used to harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary.

Wow. When I say "I called it" I didn't think I could call it that well. Just kidding. Everyone and the journalists they were telling anonymously cited the same US codes I did. I almost certainly wasn't the first, either.

But again, simply saying "I declare it unclassified" isn't how it works. For example, not even the President can declassify US nuclear info. That's specially protected by a separate law.

So I'm pretty sure there's no record at all of Trump's declassification, and therefore, it doesn't matter if he stamped his widdle feet and yelled NO NO NO on the way out the door. Besides, if it was declassified, why didn't he say something about that months ago? Just kidding. He did, and nobody believed him, because by that point it'd been a year and nobody found the record of the declassification. As such, it doesn't exist.

You know what, I'll offer this instead. Let's pretend, because what Trump said is fantasy land bullshit, let's pretend all it takes is the President saying "it's declassified" and they can instantly take whatever they want, and share it with whoever they want, forever.

Hmm.

What Trump classified? Couldn't Biden just say "I declassify everything from Jan 20, 2017 to Jan 19, 2021 and also all of Trump's taxes. By the way, here they are". I mean, if Trump's saying he should be allowed to keep nuclear secrets because he wanted to, surely taking just one American civilian's tax records is okay too, right?

Right? Alt-right?