Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

From this year's CPAC:



I cannot emphasize enough how that image is unedited in any way that I'm aware of. That's a real slogan they put on their banner.

The country's on fire, and there's only one group who's holding lit matches and spraying gasoline.

It's like trying to reclaim "Nazi" as a positive term...there's just no doing it and any attempt to do so, even tongue-in-cheek, is pretty on the nose.

[Breccia]

I cannot emphasize enough how that image is unedited in any way that I'm aware of.

The picture is real.

“We Are All Domestic Terrorists” was also the title of a panel discussion, it should be noted. Present on that panel was Julie Pickren, a Texas State Board of Education candidate who claimed the title was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, the Houston Chronicle reported. “Nobody in this room is a domestic terrorist,” she reportedly told the crowd of attendees.

Of course, the room was full of Trump supporters, known insurrectionists and insurrection supporters. Oh, and they're defending stealing nuclear secrets. Until a Trump supporter says otherwise, by virtue of being a Trump supporter they also support the insurrection, which used violence to cause political change, literal terrorism.

Unless "domestic" refers to those that only terrorize their wives and children. Of course, that Venn diagram overlap is pretty significant, too.

[cubby]

From this year's CPAC:



I cannot emphasize enough how that image is unedited in any way that I'm aware of. That's a real slogan they put on their banner.

The country's on fire, and there's only one group who's holding lit matches and spraying gasoline.

Wait...hold on. That's not a parody or anything? That's literally what CPAC has as their banner, that they chose?

[Poopymonster]

Wait...hold on. That's not a parody or anything? That's literally what CPAC has as their banner, that they chose?

Yeah, they did.
I know we're all surprised.
It's a shock. I couldn't believe my eyes either.
CPAC was honest.

[gondrin]

This all goes back to Putin always having had leverage over Trump, from years back, like we saw in so many pieces of evidence. We'll almost never know the full story, but all the pieces point to several things having always been correct, including (and I hate to have to bring this up) the Pee Tape.

Basically, Putin was Trump's handler. Not kidding. Totally terrifying.

My thing is what did Trump and Putin talk about when they were both alone a few years back. That honestly needs to be out in the open. I wouldn't want Biden or any other president to have secret talks with no one around, especially one that has economic ties in some fashion to that country.

[Edge-]

My thing is what did Trump and Putin talk about when they were both alone a few years back. That honestly needs to be out in the open. I wouldn't want Biden or any other president to have secret talks with no one around, especially one that has economic ties in some fashion to that country.

We'll literally never know, because there are only three people who could tell us: Trump, Putin, and Putin's interpreter. And I don't think we'd view any of those three as remotely credible sources.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...44684.html?amp

In the bizarro world of Republicans, an FBI raid on a former president over possibly illegally taking government documents, including a lot of classified information, to his personal residence results in a +10 point bump when polled against his likely primary rival.

[gondrin]

We'll literally never know, because there are only three people who could tell us: Trump, Putin, and Putin's interpreter. And I don't think we'd view any of those three as remotely credible sources.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...44684.html?amp

In the bizarro world of Republicans, an FBI raid on a former president over possibly illegally taking government documents, including a lot of classified information, to his personal residence results in a +10 point bump when polled against his likely primary rival.

Nah, it makes perfect sense. In their worldview, they see it as he was taking something away from the government. Most alt-right HATE the government until they need to use it to suppress some group of people.

[Kathranis]

"Whoa whoa whoa, this is all wild speculation."

So are all the Trump defenses. I think this is completely fair. I mean, Trump could make this all go away. He said it was all declassified. He could just tell us what was in the documents. The fact that he isn't is his problem.

That Trump has already tried using "Obama did it too" as a deflection kind of kills the plausible deniability.

[Fugus]

Wait...hold on. That's not a parody or anything? That's literally what CPAC has as their banner, that they chose?

Yeah, I remember reading about it then, they legit put this on, even had it spoken through their speaker system.

[Breccia]

Wait...hold on. That's not a parody or anything?

The person who chose the banner, said it was. But a Trump rally engaged in literal terrorism and defend the act to this day. She's literally correct.

[Jastall]

T'is quite amusing to see the Party of Law and Order make a 180 towards arguments such as Defund the FBI (or in one case, Attack the FBI) when Law and Order is coming for them this time around.

I do wonder where this will lead. One doubts the Bureau and other authorities would have sought a wildly publicized raid on a former President's residence without a very good reason, nor would the AG give this a go without a good reason as well. This didn't just happen become some pencil-pusher at the National Archives got annoyed Trump nicked records on Midwestern agricultural yields in 2017 or something.

On the other hand I have a very hard time believing anyone there actually wants to see said former President be on trial or anything of the sort. Yes, yes, there's probably little lost love for Trump at that level of government, but there's a vast gulf between thinking the guy is a jackass and wanting to drag him in court for the entire world to see and laugh at, to say nothing of how this sorta thing will drive Ya'll Quada into a murderous frenzy.

[Kathranis]

On the other hand I have a very hard time believing anyone there actually wants to see said former President be on trial or anything of the sort. Yes, yes, there's probably little lost love for Trump at that level of government, but there's a vast gulf between thinking the guy is a jackass and wanting to drag him in court for the entire world to see and laugh at, to say nothing of how this sorta thing will drive Ya'll Quada into a murderous frenzy.

The FBI probably wouldn't mind an excuse to round up some of these nut jobs. Hell, whole thing could be a honeypot just to get them riled up.

[gondrin]

T'is quite amusing to see the Party of Law and Order make a 180 towards arguments such as Defund the FBI (or in one case, Attack the FBI) when Law and Order is coming for them this time around.

I do wonder where this will lead. One doubts the Bureau and other authorities would have sought a wildly publicized raid on a former President's residence without a very good reason, nor would the AG give this a go without a good reason as well. This didn't just happen become some pencil-pusher at the National Archives got annoyed Trump nicked records on Midwestern agricultural yields in 2017 or something.

On the other hand I have a very hard time believing anyone there actually wants to see said former President be on trial or anything of the sort. Yes, yes, there's probably little lost love for Trump at that level of government, but there's a vast gulf between thinking the guy is a jackass and wanting to drag him in court for the entire world to see and laugh at, to say nothing of how this sorta thing will drive Ya'll Quada into a murderous frenzy.

Much like with other literal terrorists, you don't capitulate to them. If they want to go and try killing a bunch of law enforcement, much like other times, they will get put down. A LOT of them will not do anything that might put their life in danger. They are literally keyboard warriors that talk a big game but will NEVER go through with it. Societies that kowtow to terrorists literally get taken over by them.

Terrorists, much like the Nazi Party and other groups like them, don't stop until either they take over completely or get put down violently. That is why, the policy as far as the US goes, you don't negotiate with them ever unless you get more out of it and they get less. Terrorists NEVER stop going for more and more if you give them what they want.

[Breccia]

T'is quite amusing to see the Party of Law and Order make a 180

It remains baffling how much of their soul they're willing to sell for Trump. It would have been trivial to say "Well they're just doing their jobs, and clearly Trump is innocent so just let them come back empty-handed".

If they believed that.

Since they actually believe Trump is a criminal, it instead has become "defund the FBI and impeach Garland for daring to cross Trump" Trump's guilt or innocence isn't even part of the deal.

[cubby]

It's like trying to reclaim "Nazi" as a positive term...there's just no doing it and any attempt to do so, even tongue-in-cheek, is pretty on the nose.

The GQP is the new Nazi party of America.

[Breccia]

FOX News just keeps hoping for something good they can report. Morale there must be lower than the Russian front line.

This latest article, which yes I am 100% citing just to build up CNN points, is complaining that the DOJ is not allowing the seized items to undergo independent review. I believe I have the DOJ's statement here:

No. It's classified. You're not allowed to have them. That's the point.

The article does go on to cite both lawyer-client and executive privilege.

"How much of this matters in court?"

Oh, almost certainly none. Executive privileged documents still wouldn't be allowed to leave the WH, especially without any documentation. And non-WH-laywer-client wouldn't be classified, because non-WH lawyers wouldn't have that clearance.

Also, it speaks poorly for Trump's lawyers, Bobb especially, when she didn't know what was in the boxes, if any claim of privilege is made.

And I'm calling bullshit on Trump deeming anyone to be "independent" who actually is.

Despite tearfully admitting certain objective facts about the case, this article has almost every FOX News line defending Trump they've ever printed, such as "Trump had been complying with the subpoena for a year" No, he hadn't, that's why the FBI left with 20 boxes, including

a "leatherbound box of documents," binders of photos, handwritten notes, miscellaneous documents, miscellaneous top secret documents, miscellaneous confidential documents, and other records.

Leatherbound and filled with mixed items...so, anyone else getting the same vibes? This was Trump's top secret display case. I'll bet this box was sitting in easy reach, maybe this was actually in the safe and I've been wrong this whole time, of Trump's favorite WH trophies. The ones he'd show to company. That's a guess of course, we don't know what was taken from where, but a leatherbound box says "special" to me.

Keep digging, FOX News. You won't find the truth down there, but you might make an escape tunnel.

[Jastall]

The FBI probably wouldn't mind an excuse to round up some of these nut jobs. Hell, whole thing could be a honeypot just to get them riled up.

The low level idiots like the one who attacked the building? Sure. But very few among them, or the upper echelons of the DoJ, want to see a President, whenever sitting or former, get dragged before a judge on camera if they can at all avoid it. They'll go after his harmless underlings and sycophants all day long but I doubt Trump sees any comeuppance unless he did something massively stupid even for him, like hoarding secrets key to US nuclear strategy for who knows what reason. Can't be the launch codes or whatever, those aren't printed on paper like that as I understand it.

Which, mind you, is possible. Trump is Trump after all. But I like to at least believe there's a depth to even his narcissistic idiocy.

[Breccia]

While this is an opinion piece, the topic is federal law and the author is a deputy AG. Oh, under Reagan, so no blaming liberals today!

Rule 41 (g) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure authorizes Trump to file suit demanding a return of all materials seized by the FBI at Mar-a-Lago by proof that the search warrant or its execution was legally defective. The text is clear to persons unschooled in the law: “A person aggrieved by an unlawful search and seizure of property or by the deprivation of property may move for the property’s return…The court must receive evidence on any factual issue necessary to decide the motion. If it grants the motion, the court must return the property to the movant.”

Furthermore, under Criminal Rule 41 (f), the FBI must prepare an inventory of the property seized and the “officer executing the warrant must give a copy of the warrant and a receipt of the property taken to the person from whom, or from whose premises the property was taken.” On Thursday via social media, Trump requested the release of documents related to his search warrant — after Attorney General Merrick Garland announced the Justice Department had petitioned courts to unseal the documents.

Additionally, under the decision of the United States Supreme Court in Bivens v. Six Unknown Agents (1971), Trump could sue FBI agents for damages for violation of his Fourth Amendment rights either in executing the search warrant or intentionally lying to establish probable cause.

Neither Trump, nor Team Trump, nor any Republicans have brought up any of these. Most likely, because they know none of them will work. They know the search was legal, and they know the FBI didn't lie to the judge. Incidentally, Bobb already admitted in public she got a receipt -- if she didn't give it to her client that's not the FBI's fault -- and Trump's demands on social media don't translate into courtroom requests. Screaming at the television doesn't change anything, after all.

By virtue of Trump not taking the steps an innocent person would try immediately, the expert author concludes that Trump is not just guilty, but knows it. He also says

Trump’s signature fact-free and law-free defenses — witch hunts and a Democratic Gestapo — was recently rejected by a 3-0 panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in Committee on Ways and Means v. Trump. The court sustained the constitutionality of the committee’s statutory right of access to Trump’s tax returns.

and then goes on to say what at least I, and likely many others, have said: the FBI's treatment of Trump is unique, because Trump's behavior was unique. No ex-President committed such crimes or committed such acts. Trump did. If he's upset about the consequences of his actions, he shouldn't have done them.

[gondrin]

Fox News reports there might have been Attorney Client privileged documents so Trump wants them back. Too bad, so sad. Maybe they should wait 2 years to give them back to him and when he asks, state they have already been sent back but really are in a basement. He does this all on TS and not in a court of law which is usually required for this.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...107809f7d332ee

Trump requests privileged records seized by FBI be returned — on Truth Social

Former President Donald Trump said he wants any privileged records seized during the FBI's raid on Mar-a-Lago returned to him.

The declaration was made not in court, but on Trump's social media platform Sunday morning after Fox News reported agents seized boxes containing records covered by attorney-client privilege and potentially executive privilege from the former president's Florida residence.

"Oh great! It has just been learned that the FBI, in its now famous raid of Mar-a-Lago, took boxes of privileged 'attorney-client' material, and also 'executive' privileged material, which they knowingly should not have taken," Trump said on Truth Social. "By copy of this TRUTH, I respectfully request that these documents be immediately returned to the location from which they were taken. Thank you!"

Sources told Fox News that Trump's team asked the Justice Department if it would support an independent special master to review the records, but the agency said it would oppose the request. The DOJ and FBI declined to comment, the news outlet said.

FBI agents recovered 11 sets of classified information, with some marked as top secret, among 20 boxes of items, during the raid on Monday. Search warrant documents were unsealed on Friday after Trump declined to oppose the move. They show Trump is being investigated for a potential Espionage Act violation and possible obstruction of justice.

Trump insists he declassified records and has denied any wrongdoing.

[Endus]

Fox News reports there might have been Attorney Client privileged documents so Trump wants them back. Too bad, so sad. Maybe they should wait 2 years to give them back to him and when he asks, state they have already been sent back but really are in a basement. He does this all on TS and not in a court of law which is usually required for this.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...107809f7d332ee

The records were in Trump's house. His attorney can't be forced to turn them over due to said privilege, but that doesn't apply to personal copies the client holds.