Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Lying to your lawyer is not perjury, nor a crime. If you sign something that is submitted to the court, i.e. an affidavit, then it is perjury.

I'm wondering if Trump signed a single thing his lawyers turned over? I'm starting to wonder if this is the start of a new legal strategy. Lie to your lawyer, have them turn in forms without signing them, ??? profit.

[cubby]

I'm wondering if Trump signed a single thing his lawyers turned over? I'm starting to wonder if this is the start of a new legal strategy. Lie to your lawyer, have them turn in forms without signing them, ??? profit.

He's already been doing it, so badly that at least one group of his attorney's is complaining to the judge.

Trump is now in legitimate serious legal trouble. Garland probably has a Red Team for his Red Team at this point. "Are we fucking sure our ducks are in a row?" is all he sees now in his dreams.

[Edge-]

https://archive.ph/AbYo5

Archive link, but bad news for Ron DeSantis and his crack team of "election cops".

Hilariously, given that it seems state/county officials - including the guy overseeing the election cop division when he was overseeing a county election office - all approved the registration forms of the 20 "voter fraudsters" and provided almost all of them with voter ID cards.

Which led most of them to believe they could legally vote, since the state/county said they could. Which...may end up with charges being dropped and Ron having, again, nothing to show for the millions of taxpayer dollars he's wasting on this political boondoggle.

[masterhorus8]

https://archive.ph/AbYo5

Archive link, but bad news for Ron DeSantis and his crack team of "election cops".

Hilariously, given that it seems state/county officials - including the guy overseeing the election cop division when he was overseeing a county election office - all approved the registration forms of the 20 "voter fraudsters" and provided almost all of them with voter ID cards.

Which led most of them to believe they could legally vote, since the state/county said they could. Which...may end up with charges being dropped and Ron having, again, nothing to show for the millions of taxpayer dollars he's wasting on this political boondoggle.

Can the state/county officials be charged with anything? Unsure as to what laws might even be applicable for that.

[Edge-]

Can the state/county officials be charged with anything? Unsure as to what laws might even be applicable for that.

No clue. The division is new and so are some of the laws around it, and I'm not super familiar with FL's specific voting laws.

[tehdang]

I'm sure what you'll say won't be stupid or insane in the least bit.

It sounds like we're done here.

It's not opinions of you. It's opinions on your statements regarding Clinton. And you didn't recant any of their arguments; you just ignored their posts like they didn't happen.

Of course only they can recant. By definition.

Like I think you willfully misread that part of my post early on. Nobody could otherwise be so dense.

I drew attention to your grandstanding in the connection to Republicans on social issues, because apparently the left can't stop themselves from connecting an FBI raid to criticism of Republican social policy. You tried to pull a "My point was..." to reframe it as paying too much attention to one compared to the other, but still there are a great many things out there to follow as news stories without demanding to ignore one if you're covering another. You're really on weak ground here. You surrendered that there was any connection between the two, then tried to bring it back, and now declare reading them in the same post is willful misreading.

The investigation into the allegations of the Nunes memo found no political motivation to their potentially misfiled application to look into Trump's ties with Russia. That is what the Nunes memo acquiesced to.

The dire warnings on what classified information was contained therein were laughable lies. Democratic operatives and intelligence people claimed that confidential sources and national security were threatened if the memo was declassified and released. It turned out to be just embarrassing info about the FBI, regarding how they obtained FISA surveillance.

The Nunes memo, above all, alleged that the inquiry was political and therefore not to be trusted. The DOJ review found clerical errors in the way the FISA warrants were submitted. They found no issue with the actual information obtained being fraudulent or false. You seem to be claiming that they made up the information, like you're claiming that they're... making up that Trump had these documents?

Yeah, I'm bringing it back to the documents Trump had. You're trying to whataboutism real hard, but I'm not going to let you.

And regardless, no judgement of misconduct has been made on the FBI's raid on Mar-a-lago, as signed off on by a judge and done legally to the letter, so far as anyone with any insight into how the legal world operates has opined for now. A judge Trump appointed, no less. Just like the conservative judges that approved continued action on the FBI's continued surveillance that the Nunes Memo was so pissy about.

Anybody that wants to ignore that example and continue to just repeat the FBI's lines is being willfully ignorant.

When it's your analysis vs everyone else's, maybe you're just in the wrong.

Already covered the polling problem, and obviously a forum so tolerant of calls to lynch retired government officials aren't going to have qualms about any potential misbehavior in the justice department regarding people they hate.

And a whole bunch of people stormed the capitol building trying to lynch the former vice president. People died over it.

They were republicans.

Say, while we're at it, what's your opinion on the raid on the capitol building? Was that all just a "democrat overreaction" like Trump having nuclear secrets printed out in a box?

Have any members of this forum called for lynching the former vice president? Because I cited an actual post and responses to it on lynching another.

You're alleging mass conspiracy because of a misfiling of documents four years ago.

And I mean, if you're talking about past cases, misconduct, statute violations and legal proceedings, Trump isn't exactly the poster boy to be rallying behind on the matter.

You also keep harping on about guilty testimonies and firings and the mass shame of the FBI. I can't actually find any sources on that. The only associated "guilty plea" I can find is Trump advisor George Papadopoulos pleading guilty to lying to the FBI which actually began the probe.

Now I think we're really done. I've never mentioned mass conspiracies, but since you've doubled down on putting words in my mouth, I'll leave you to any posters more willing to answer things you wish they had said but didn't. For my part, I answered your original question and explained myself as to why. PMs are open if you think this treatment is unfair.

Fine

From my previous post, on an actual statement from you

If you want to start allowing people their own opinions on politics, stated honestly, this would be a departure for you ... but a welcome one. State it for the record so we're actually talking to each other.

If you're quite willing to state over a half a dozen times in multiple threads that I'm repeating lines from somebody else, surely you can create a positive statement contradicting the past ones and asserting that you'll treat future posts differently. We've been through too many questions from you, just to hear my honest answers mis-ascribed to some political team. It's just me here.

[Edge-]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-tr...is-smoking-gun

According to DOJ’s recent brief, classified documents in that office were “commingled” in a desk drawer with three passports. While the government did not disclose the name on the passports, Trump himself has complained that during the search, the FBI “stole” his three passports. It seems a safe bet that the passports DOJ recovered were Trump’s.

The significance of the passports is enormous. As DOJ explained in an understated footnote, “The location of the passports is relevant evidence in an investigation of unauthorized retention and mishandling of national defense information.”

In other words, the presence of the passports in the same drawer as the classified records tends to tie the unauthorized possession of these documents to Trump himself. A photo included with the filing shows the items that were recovered from his office. Among the classification markings on the documents are “Top Secret,” meaning that the disclosure of the material could cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security of the United States.

So the reason the FBI collected the passports comes into focus more.

It wasn't they viewed Trump as a flight risk, it was establishing personal custody of the classified documents and that they were in the possession of Donald Trump, mixed in with his personal documents. I imagine part of that is also to establish that, despite claims otherwise, the storage of these documents was in no way, shape, or form actually secure. They were not in a locked safe in a secure room, they were mixed in with personal documents in desks and drawers.

[Breccia]

So the reason the FBI collected the passports comes into focus more.

I should have said this the first time this was posted: who keeps their passports in their desk when they have a safe? My passport is in my safe, and I'm a nobody.

[gondrin]

Can the state/county officials be charged with anything? Unsure as to what laws might even be applicable for that.

Only if they can prove there was intent to do something they normally wouldn't do. If they thought they were able to vote because were told they were able to vote but the people gave them bad info because they knew if those people voted, it would be fraud but didn't tell them, there might be a case for entrapment but not sure how that would play out.

Knowing Florida and how it is right now, they will just fire a couple of people and try to brush it under the rug.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-tr...is-smoking-gun



So the reason the FBI collected the passports comes into focus more.

It wasn't they viewed Trump as a flight risk, it was establishing personal custody of the classified documents and that they were in the possession of Donald Trump, mixed in with his personal documents. I imagine part of that is also to establish that, despite claims otherwise, the storage of these documents was in no way, shape, or form actually secure. They were not in a locked safe in a secure room, they were mixed in with personal documents in desks and drawers.

What, the whole "There is nothing to see in there." sign wasn't good enough? Man, I thought that was a good deterrent too. /s

[Edge-]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...to-1234585191/

Fox: Why would Trump have all that classified information in the pictures? Why SCI information? The agencies didn't know this was all apparently "declassified".
Kristi Noem: "It's important that we have someone outside the DoJ looking at this, we don't know what's in there! We don't know what the process for declassifying information, we need to know what that is!"
Fox: But Governor, literally no president has ever done this before.

Also -

Lara Trump: The FBI/DoJ don't want anyone to know what they took! Sure it's all classified material that's part of an active investigation, but they want to keep it secret!

Also -

Dan Bongino: DON'T TRUST THE FBI! WHY SHOULD YOU TRUST THE FBI?! THE FBI ARE ALL DEEP STATE LEFTISTS! LOTS MORE ANGRY SHOUTING BUT THIS IS GOING ON TOO LONG AND I AM BORED.

Also - https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/sta...74411681243136

ULTRA MAGA writer - THESE ARE JUST COVER SHEETS! PLANTED, FAKE EVIDENCE!

Also also - https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/s...55625146093568

The stupid fucking Dilbert guy: TRUMP DID THIS AS A BACKUP SAFETY PLAN AGAINST THE DEEP STATE! AND FOR A BIOGRAPHY HE WON'T WRITE! AND TREASON FOR PROFIT (a good idea!)! OR HE JUST FORGOT! OR THE FBI PLANTED IT! OR THE DOCUMENTS WERE MISLABLED! IT'S PROBABLY THAT LAST ONE, CLEALRY JUST A BUNCH OF MISLABLED DOCUMENTS!

Also also also - https://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/sta...18029388734465

House Judiciary Republicans: BUT I SEE A TIME MAGAZINE SOMEWHERE SO PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THAT IN THE CORNER AND NOW THE 6+ TOP SECRET/SCI DOCUMENTS PLUS THE ADDITIONAL 10+ WHITED OUT CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS!

Also also also also - https://twitter.com/benshapiro/statu...69560666677248

That guy who can't sexually arouse his wife: YEAH BUT TRUMP JUST HOARDS DOCUMENTS AND REALLY HATES BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO SO HE KEPT THEM SINCE THE ARCHIVES DEMANDED THEM BACK AND HE'S AN ALPHA THAT DOES WHAT HE WANTS. ALSO, HILLARY FOR SOME REASON.

Man, the conservative talking points are in more shambles than usual after this one photo came out.

[s_bushido]

In the deepest recesses of my shriveled heart, I almost feel sorry for these idiots. The apologia they're forced to engage in to defend an obvious criminal conman is almost as sad as religious apologetics trying to convince us that stories about global genocide and ethnic cleansing are examples of perfectly good behavior.

[Breccia]

The stupid fucking Dilbert guy: TRUMP DID THIS AS A BACKUP SAFETY PLAN AGAINST THE DEEP STATE! AND FOR A BIOGRAPHY HE WON'T WRITE!

Well, like the pointy-haired boss, Trump's plans immediately fell apart because nobody competent was involved. By the way, this isn't a defense.

That guy who can't sexually arouse his wife

Lindsey Graham?

[Fugus]

I should have said this the first time this was posted: who keeps their passports in their desk when they have a safe? My passport is in my safe, and I'm a nobody.

Maybe he was hoping to leave outside the nation sometime in the near future and wanted both his passports and the paperwork he was trying to take with him with easy access for his departure.

Would suck to try and sell national secrets just to get there and realize you forgot to grab the documents on your way out, just have it with his passports for a quick grab that makes it harder to forget.

[s_bushido]

Lindsey Graham?

Nah. That would be Ben "a wet pussy is a sign of an illness" Shapiro.

[ringpriest]

I should have said this the first time this was posted: who keeps their passports in their desk when they have a safe? My passport is in my safe, and I'm a nobody.

My guess is that he liked to look at them and pretend he was still President. That's based on the presumption that the two expired passports were his Official and Diplomatic passports from his term in office (here's a link to the different types of US passports). As to what the third one is (because you're right, keeping your actual passport in a desk drawer is foolish)... no idea. Maybe he just likes having them together. Maybe he's secretly got dual citizenship with Saudi Arabia or North Korea or something and kept that passport is with his "awesome official documents" collection.

[Edge-]

Lindsey Graham?

Honestly, I'm not so comfortable with all the "lady G" and other shit with Lindsey Graham. There are far better, and less shitty ways, to insult him.

No, this was about Ben Shapipo obviously. You know, the guy who reacted to WAP (Wet-ass Pussy) with confusion as he's apparently never encountered a sexually aroused woman in his entire life.

[cubby]

From my previous post, on an actual statement from youIf you're quite willing to state over a half a dozen times in multiple threads that I'm repeating lines from somebody else, surely you can create a positive statement contradicting the past ones and asserting that you'll treat future posts differently. We've been through too many questions from you, just to hear my honest answers mis-ascribed to some political team. It's just me here.

This is you not answering a direct question - again.

If "[i]t's just you here", then answer the question. If Hillary broke the law with "her emails", why didn't the Trump DoJ charge her?

- - - Updated - - -

My guess is that he liked to look at them and pretend he was still President. That's based on the presumption that the two expired passports were his Official and Diplomatic passports from his term in office (here's a link to the different types of US passports). As to what the third one is (because you're right, keeping your actual passport in a desk drawer is foolish)... no idea. Maybe he just likes having them together. Maybe he's secretly got dual citizenship with Saudi Arabia or North Korea or something and kept that passport is with his "awesome official documents" collection.

Foolish and vain sound exactly like the best traits of Trump. I'm sure the peeps down in MaL still call him "Mr. President".

[tehdang]

This is you not answering a direct question - again.

This is why I recalled to your mind your sequence of six times calling my responses as nothing but talking points from other people. If you want to label things talking points, go ask your local political spokesperson questions. If you're asking me, tell me in a positive statement that you acknowledge your past behavior and you're done trolling my answers as not being mine. I'm a mouthpiece for nobody's views but my own, and treating me contrary to it demeans your person.

[cubby]

This is why I recalled to your mind your sequence of six times calling my responses as nothing but talking points from other people. If you want to label things talking points, go ask your local political spokesperson questions. If you're asking me, tell me in a positive statement that you acknowledge your past behavior and you're done trolling my answers as not being mine. I'm a mouthpiece for nobody's views but my own, and treating me contrary to it demeans your person.

It's interesting, as it always is, when you're faced with the lies of your previous statements as well as a truth you cannot contradict, that you slide into your usual maneuvering away from the issue.

Just answer the question if you can - it's fine if you can't, there actually is only one good answer to the question, as we'd all be shocked if you had the intellectual honesty to finally say it.

Why didn't Trump have his DoJ charge Hillary for "her emails" if she actually committed a crime?

[Breccia]

This is why--

Hey, remember when I posted an extensive article about how But Her Emails was bullshit and said anyone who tried to bring that topic up had to comment on that first? You probably missed it on your way to not answer @cubby again, so, here's a link, please deal with the fact-based expert-given discussion without simply dismissing it with a handwave. Failure to do so will be taken as admission you have no point, and that you are merely trying to deflect without having anything backing up your point.

So Trump filed something real quick before the Thursday hearing. NYTimes reports.

Trump’s legal team on Wednesday angrily renewed its push for an independent arbiter to review documents the F.B.I. seized in its Aug. 8 search of his Florida residence, telling a federal judge that he had merely possessed “his own presidential records.”

In an 18-page filing, Mr. Trump’s lawyers suggested that by undertaking what they described as an “unprecedented, unnecessary and legally unsupported raid” on Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s home and club in Palm Beach, Fla., the Justice Department was “criminalizing a former president’s possession of personal and presidential records in a secure setting.”

Judge Aileen M. Cannon, a Trump appointee hearing the request, signaled over the weekend that she was inclined to appoint an outside expert, known as a special master, in the case, but wanted to first hear from the Justice Department, which objected to Mr. Trump’s request in a lengthy filing Tuesday night.

A hearing is scheduled for Thursday in Federal District Court in West Palm Beach.

Okay so, Trump seems to have given up on a lot of possible defenses. He is now all in on "I was allowed to have them" which seems directly contradicted by reality. For one, I don't think he can blame his lawyer anymore, since he's flat-out insisting that nothing else was to be turned over.

More importantly, the 1978 Presidential Records Act flat-out says what Trump is saying is false. Trump doesn't own those. The WH does.

The NYTimes goes on to point out:

1) Trump filed this "special master" request way too late for it to be of any value.

2) Kise wasn't in court.

3) Trump has yet in court to say, under oath, that the materials he had were declassified. Probably because he can't back that up. Screaming into the wind is one thing, but taking the stand is another. I posit this means no standing order existed and Trump didn't declassify the things he was proven to have. Trump has also yet to say, under oath, that he was fully cooperating with the DOJ. He's just saying that in public, not where it matters.

While the Espionage Act was written before the classification system was established and does not refer to the classification status of such information, Mr. Trump has claimed that he had a standing order to declassify any documents he took to his residence.

No meaningful evidence has emerged to suggest that any such order existed, and the government’s filing on Tuesday noted that Mr. Trump’s lawyers never made such an assertion before the search. That included when Mr. Trump’s lawyers personally turned over sensitive documents in response to a subpoena in June.

If classification was important, and also if Trump had declassified them, he had months to actually deal with it in an honest fashion. He didn't. He hid the documents and lied to the FBI by proxy, which I still hope he fucking signed that form so he goes to jail.

4) Trump again claimed the records were secure, despite the fact we now know some were in his desk, and his NY lawyer probably saw them.

5) This bullshit:

Apparently stung by the possibility that people would be confused into thinking he had “sloppily” kept the files on the floor, Mr. Trump declared that they had instead been kept in “cartons.”

The "special master" request might still be granted, but honestly, what's the point anymore? Executive Privilege won't be used and the FBI already separated out everything else. (Trump is claiming otherwise, but Trump lies all the time about everything)

- - - Can I Stop Counting Point Yet? - - -

Former CIA head WAIT there was another one!

6) Trump, in this under-oath court filing, said the "special master" should have a security clearance. Um...that sounds like he's admitting the documents he had were not, in fact, declassified. Because you don't need a clearance for those.

Former CIA head Brennan went on MSNBC and--

"Whoa whoa whoa. That's a FOX News link."

I know! It's great! They reported on it so I get a point for free. Anyhow:

"I think we know both Trump and Mar-a-Lago were high priority targets when Trump was in office and I think it became more of an intelligence target of foreign adversaries after he left office because there’s probably a strong suspicion that there was information there that would have provided insight into national security, so I’m sure the Russians were looking at it after January 20th of 2021 and trying to determine how best to gain access to Mar-a-Lago," Brennan said.

"The intelligence community will not know whether or not individuals made copies of those highly sensitive documents which is why I think the damage potentially is incalculable based on the failure to be able to understand exactly what might have been compromised," Brennan said.

Oh, and by the way: when even FOX News says "But Her Emails" is invalid, you really have to question why you'd keep bringing it up. It's over, man. She's not calling back.

Reid [EDITOR: the host] criticized Republican attacks against the FBI that suggested a double standard between their treatment of Trump and their treatment of Hillary Clinton, who was also accused of improperly handling classified materials, as "a bunch of whataboutism."

"Hillary Clinton, first of all, was investigated for almost two years for having a server at her house. She never retained documents that she tried to keep and conceal," Reid said.

Reid added, "Hillary Clinton never attempted to obstruct, conceal or move her server around. They knew exactly where it was. She had things like records about a meeting that, you know, she was going have with a foreign official, they were things declassified after the fact. There was nothing anywhere close to this."

And just so we're clear:

Brennan went even further and defended Clinton’s character.

"First of all, I worked very closely with Hillary Clinton. She worked tirelessly to advance U.S. national security interests around the clock. She didn’t do the things that Donald Trump has done, as you had pointed out, as he has so many multiple interests in terms of financial, personal, political, partisan, you name it," Brennan said.

He went on to cast aspersions on Trump, appearing to imply that he was like a traitor who spied on his own government for foreign adversaries. "And the types of things that he’s doing, it reminds me of some individual U.S. government officials who were recruited by foreign intelligence services who did their utmost to conceal their activities, to conceal the documents that they might have taken and stolen from the U.S. Government," he continued.

"Therefore, it’s clearly [sic] that he had nefarious intentions which is why I think it’s so important that the Department of Justice and the FBI and the intelligence community get to the bottom of this, because there’s nothing short of our national security that is at stake," he said.

FOX News quoted all of this. FOX News. It's getting pathetic. This isn't their top headline, but it is #4 out of 5 they show. Their top headline isn't Trump, it's Texas shipping out immigrants. #2 is Palin losing her, wait, what?

Democrat Mary Peltola wins Alaska special election to fill remainder of Rep. Don Young's term

Democrat Mary Peltola has defeated former Alaska Gov. and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin in an Alaska special general election to fill the remainder of former Rep. Don Young's term in Congress, according to unofficial ranked-choice voting results announced in the state on Wednesday.

Alaska was using ranked choice voting, and a Democrat still beat two GOP candidates, one of whom was Sarah Palin. It's #2 on FOX News, right now. Holy shit.

EDIT: Okay last one I promise.

7) Trump's filing said this:

Left unchecked, the DOJ will impugn, leak, and publicize selective aspects of their investigation with no recourse for [Trump] but to somehow trust the self-restraint of currently unchecked investigators

I'll let you take this one, General Clapper.



Why would Trump be worried about published information he personally declasified? That means everyone is allowed to see it.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah...of course there's more.

Yet another FOX News story is about lawmakers saying they've been approached by whistleblowers who say Wray must be removed for...uh...something something, I guess? Getting politics out of the FBI seems to be the go-to.

But...

However, in a statement to Fox News, FBI Agents Association president Brian O'Hare appeared to rebut such claims, saying in part that "attempts to politicize FBI agents’ work and divide our team should be rejected. While there are some who claim to speak on behalf of FBI agents, only the FBI Agents Association, representing more than 90% of active-duty Special Agents, serves as the voice for these agents… "

"With a clear eye on our mission, we remain confident in Director Wray, his leadership team, and our agents," O'Hare concluded.

Yeah, FOX News basically had no choice but to add that. Otherwise the FBI would have released it themselves.

Also who thinks "There's too much politics in the FBI! I know, I'll tell only Republicans this!" without taking at least two forms of illegal medication first?