Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[The Stormbringer]

What's up with all these sycophants that still call him "the President". Call him what he really is, the FORMER President.

[s_bushido]

What's up with all these sycophants that still call him "the President". Call him what he really is, the FORMER President.

I mean...aside from the whole "we've spent the past 2+ years pretending he won, but that the election was stolen" garbage, former presidents can be referred to as "President [name]" as an honorific. Not "the President," though...

[Breccia]

I'm a few days late to the party

Oh, just you wait.

but fucking what?

It's a reference to Trump hiring a publicly-known foreign agent as a lawyer.

Kise is a registered foreign agent working for Venezuela Maduro. I would hope, jeez, with our justice system idk but I would hope that some law exists somewhere that a registered foreign agent would be barred from working as a lawyer in a case involving top secret government files, and this was brought up to them and he was forced to be sidelined for that.

Your concern about the documents being mishandled is, of course, the entire point. Team Trump is also being a giant douchey hypocrite by claiming the FBI's taint team isn't good enough, while he had them in his desk drawer and, like you said, his own legal team could not only have read them during the events in question, but for almost 2 years before that, too (including the NY lawyer who basically tripped over them by accident).

You could make the argument that Trump's lawyers being able to review the documents Trump stole is a far lesser issue than "Trump stole them", but yeah, it's like saying "only the first guy murdered him, the rest only desecrated a corpse".

And then, of course, there's the issue with Team Trump refusing to even say which items are privileged or classified. And their refusal to get a document scanning company to make digital copies in the first place.

If you're a few days late, you have some interesting reading coming your way.

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What's up with all these sycophants that still call him "the President".

Trump will fire them if they don't.

Oh, that's not a valid excuse. They knew what they signed up for.

At best, "the President" is an attempt to refer to actions when Trump was in the WH. It's also a moot point, because again, there's no record Trump actually did any of the actions he claimed he did while in office. He's accused of stealing stuff when he left, and having them while no longer in the WH. So until Team Trump says, under oath, items are privileged or classified -- both of which seem to be irrelevant anyhow -- even that "at best" has zero effect here.

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The Supreme Court is ready to hear Mike Lindell's appeal in the c--

"No."

Um, nevermind.

Yes, that means Lindell is out of options and must face Dominion's lawsuit.

Lindell asserts today, as he did throughout the relevant period, that his statements regarding Dominion, its voting machines, and the integrity of the tabulation were, and continue to be, valid, accurate, and true

-- Lindell's lawyers

Great, here's the address to mail the check

-- Dominion's lawyers

EDIT: I guess I should ask more of @cubby on this. Okay, so, the issue Lindell is going for is, he genuinely believes what he said is true, or at least, that's what his lawyers are arguing in court. If he believes them to be true, it can't be defamation.

Here's where I need an expert. I'm fairly sure I could say, for example, "I believe Donald Trump is, in fact, missing both testicles and his entire penis" and then say "Your Honor, I believe this to be true, and you can't prove I don't believe that". Then, when Trump yells at me, turn and say "when's the last time you saw them, fat boy?" It would be so worth the contempt charge.

But thing is, there is no logical, valid reason for me to have that belief. There's no public evidence Trump was ever castrated. (NYState is trying, but that's metaphorical not medical) Lindell is in the same position with voter fraud, especially Dominion's role in it. No evidence existed at the time, and none exists now, that Dominion was hacked, or that Dominion cheated on purpose. Lindell is trying to push the responsibility of his false claims onto someone else, I'm just going to predict "the media" (hey, remember MyPillowTV? whatever happened to that?) so that he bears no liable fault.

And I don't think it works that way.

It varies by state, but the generally accepted parts of defamation include "a false statement was presented as fact" which Lindell 100% did, but also "the statement was made with intent to damage, or with reckless disregard to its truth". There appears to be a 9-0 SCOTUS ruling on the subject.

Lindell's claims are clearly objectively false. Lindell made a false statement presented as fact, to the public, that damaged Dominion the company's name and standing. And he either did so knowing his claims were false, or he should have, because the only evidence in the context of his claims were that the claims were false. The only people found breaking into Dominion machines were Trump's supporters, and that was after the election. Lindell's motivations don't enter into it.

And not only do I think dodging a lawsuit with a plea of insanity is difficult to impossible, his lawyers aren't saying that anyhow. They are simply trying to handwave the lawsuit with "he believed it and you can't prove otherwise" which in turn should be slapped down with "anyone reasonable wouldn't have".

That defense won't save anyone else, like Powell, either. FOX News might get away with it, if they can prove they only said "XXX said Dominion was hacked, and also Hannity is a circus clown disguised as a reporter".

But that's my uniformed take on the issue. Who here thinks Lindell actually has a shot at this defense working?

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Wow. Speaking of SCOTUS:

Supreme Court declines to hear case on DOJ ‘filter teams’ used in Trump search

The Justices denied a writ of certiorari in Korf v. United States, which questioned the legality of “filter team” protocols that allow teams of federal prosecutors and agents not assigned to a given case to review seized documents claimed to be privileged before the privilege question has been resolved.

Team Trump is dunking on themselves at this point. By refusing to say if the items are privileged, they're handing the DOJ a big flashing go-ahead to read everything.

Simply put, there is no privilege issue here, because nobody is raising it in court. Trump saying "privilege!" on his Chinese Twitter knockoff doesn't count. The highest court in the land has now said "put up or shut up" along with the 11th and Dearie, leaving only the dang poster who brought it up for no reason, was smacked down by literally everyone else on these forums, and moved the goalposts so far they're playing baseball since.

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Bobb lawyers up, says she'll cooperate with the DOJ.

"Did we know some of that before?"

I think so. But

Bobb, a former OAN host who helped push Trump's legal challenges following the 2020 election, has insisted to Trump allies that she believes the document she signed was accurate, according to the Post. But she also told the pro-Trump Right Side Broadcasting Network that she was not acting as Trump's attorney while serving as a custodian of records when responding to the subpoena, according to the report, meaning that the DOJ could compel her testimony more easily than if she were acting as Trump's lawyer at the time.

"I think people were a little bit confused," Bobb said. "I am on Trump's legal team. I do work for him on election issues. I was never on the legal team handling this case, just to be clear on that. Which is why I came in as the custodian of records — because I wasn't on that team."

seems new to me. Yes, if Bobb wasn't acting as Trump's lawyer, just being an employee who happened to have a legal degree isn't enough to invoke privilege. Yes, there is a difference, yes, it is an important one.

[D Luniz]

In other cause Im sure everyone around him wants Trump to lose cause it will open doors that will hurt them more.

Trump sues CNN claiming defamation, seeks $475 million in punitive damages
https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-...es-2022-10-03/

Cause IF he somehow won this, every democrat for the last 30 years would be lining up RW media and making them turn out those pockets

[Edge-]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/trum...box=1664832960

Stern added that the letter that former President Obama left for Trump at that Oval Office when Obama’s presidency ended likewise “has not been transferred” to NARA.

“It is a Presidential record,” and thus must be held by NARA, Stern noted.

He even took a letter from Obama. That's very much a government record and not his document to take. And they had more questions -

“How many records were torn up? Have any records been destroyed or were in a state that they cannot be recovered,” Stern asked. “What steps are taken to recover any records that have been torn up?”

[Breccia]

seeks $475 million in punitive damages

Why not fifty quintillion?

Defamation, slander, and libel require that the bad actor said something false as a statement of fact, either knowing it was false, or without bothering to check. Trump will have to name specific things that CNN said that are objectively false. I don't think those accusations should be given even a minute of merit unless Trump himself takes the stand to say, under oath, things that he claims CNN lied about.

I don't think Trump will take the stand. And his lawyers should be exceptionally cautious, after recent events, about filing those statements on his behalf without Trump signing them.

This suit should go nowhere.

[postman1782]

In other cause Im sure everyone around him wants Trump to lose cause it will open doors that will hurt them more.

Trump sues CNN claiming defamation, seeks $475 million in punitive damages
https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-...es-2022-10-03/

Cause IF he somehow won this, every democrat for the last 30 years would be lining up RW media and making them turn out those pockets

And just like his suit against Hillary Clinton, it will be thrown out.

[Breccia]

Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker!

Trump will be prejudiced if this appeal is expedited

"...the fuck?"

See, this is what firing every lawyer who gives you competent advice gives you. Team Trump actually flied that exact line in court.

"Surely they meant--"

This is a legal filing. Use exact words with exact meaning, like "seize".

The DOJ, as I cited earlier, is using the 11th's ruling and Cannon's change of stance to push the "special master" stuff along. Trump, of course, is now opposing his own "special master" doing what he asked him to do. Team Trump tried to argue in court that this was bad because Biden was investigating a political rival, which of course, Trump promised to do during the televised debates. Also, Biden is hands-off on this one. Also, Trump isn't running. Even if he was, running for office does not magically make you immune to prosecution for all those crimes you committed. It may be standard practice for the DOJ to back away close to an election in which the criminal is running, but Trump has long since tossed standard practice out the window.

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The NYTimes and doubtless others report that Trump lawyer Cannon, no not that Cannon, no relation either, was asked, by Trump, when returning those 15 boxes, to tell NARA that that was everything.

Cannon refused, because Cannon did not believe it to be true enough to tell government officials.

And he was right.

The conversation between Mr. Trump and Mr. Cannon took place after officials at the archives began asking Mr. Cannon, following the return of the 15 boxes, whether additional classified material was at Mar-a-Lago. It was when Mr. Cannon raised this with Mr. Trump that Mr. Trump told him to tell the archives he had given everything back, the people familiar with the discussion said.

At the time, the various investigations related to the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol by Mr. Trump’s supporters were ramping up, with a number of requests for documents, the people familiar with the discussion said. Mr. Cannon told people that he was concerned that if Mr. Trump was found to be withholding material related to Jan. 6, he would be in a worse situation, according to people familiar with the discussions.

So we are seeing a trend here. Trump's lawyers, let me say that again, lawyers intentionally taking employment from Donald Trump, are refusing to say to government officials including courts what their own intentionally chosen client is telling them to say, because it's a bad idea.

We've talked about that recently. This is a smart move. Those who did say what Trump told them to say, are now being investigated.

And maybe money cures all ethical dilemnas, but...is Trump paying them? We all have our doubts, especially them. Simply put, there's two kinds of lawyers who refuse to pass their client's instructions.

Those who know their client is stupid.
And those who know their client is guilty.

According to another person familiar with the discussions, Mr. Cannon had warned Mr. Trump in the fall of 2021 that officials at the archives were serious about getting their material back, and that the matter could result in a criminal referral. Mr. Trump deflected Mr. Cannon’s efforts, according to the person familiar with the discussions.

Mr. Cannon was also concerned about people who worked for Mr. Trump going through the boxes of material because he did not know what was in them and was concerned that they might contain classified material.

Mr. Cannon was not the only person who warned Mr. Trump that he could face legal perils if he did not return the material. The New York Times previously reported that in late 2021, Eric Herschmann, a lawyer who had worked in the White House, met with Mr. Trump at Mar-a-Lago about a number of issues and told him that he could face legal consequences if he did not give the boxes back.

But Mr. Trump continued to consult with informal advisers who told him what he wanted to hear — that the material could be considered personal records — such as the conservative activist Tom Fitton, who is not a lawyer but who leads the group Judicial Watch.

There is a word for people who, when advised by their lawyers to do something, instead listen to other people and do something else.

"Guilty".

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Trump sues CNN claiming defamation, seeks $475 million in punitive damages

UPDATE: Trump claims he's going to sue basically everyone.

“In the coming weeks and months we will also be filing lawsuits against a large number of other Fake News Media Companies for their lies, defamation, and wrongdoing, including as it pertains to ‘The Big Lie,’ that they used so often in reference to their disinformation attack on Presidential Election of 2020,” Trump wrote in his statement.

Trump said he would target the Jan 6. committee for not investigating his claims of election fraud, which were at the center of dozens of lawsuits by Trump in courts across the U.S., all of which were dropped or dismissed, some by judges he appointed.

“The Unselect Committee has refused to acknowledge, as was done by the Biden Inspector General at the Department of Defense, and others, that days ahead of January 6th, I recommended and authorized thousands of troops to be deployed to ensure that there was peace, safety, and security at the Capitol and throughout the Country,” Trump added.

"Who is the Biden Inspector General?"

I mean, Biden wasn't President Jan 6th, so, Trump is just making shit up.

"Wait, we have records that Trump wanted troops?"

Actually, we have records he didn't.

Christopher Miller, who served as acting Defense Secretary on Jan. 6, 2021, told the House committee investigating the attack on the Capitol that Trump never gave an order to have 10,000 National Guard troops ready that day.

"Not from my perspective, I was never given any direction or order or knew of any plans of that nature," Miller said in the recorded deposition that the committee tweeted Tuesday.

Rep. Liz Cheney, committee vice chair, said in the recording that former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said in February 2021 that 10,000 National Guard troops were told to be "on the ready" by Miller. Other Trump officials have repeated this claim since then.

Miller conceded, "a nonmilitary person probably could have some sort of weird interpretation, but no, the answer to your question is no," when asked if there were 10,000 troops at the ready.

When asked directly if there was a direct order from Trump, Miller said, "that's correct, there was no order from the president."

Miller, an acting DoD head and therefore someone Trump appointed himself on purpose, teestified under oath no such order exists. Trump is lying.

"So will Trump actually sue these people?"

I don't see how. The Jan 6th committee could not possibly be accused of lying about Miller's statements under oath in public. As I've opined before, Trump should not be allowed to bring a defamation suit unless he goes under oath to say the statement in question is true. I do not believe he will do that. I therefore believe he will not sue, and quite frankly, I hope at this point the judiciary sees a baseless claim and pulls a Dearie, mandating Trump actually risk perjury when trying to contradict publicly-known evidence. "I say they are lying" means nothing on Trump's Chinese knockoff Twitter.

"What about not investigating fraud?"

Trump lost something like 60 lawsuits because he had zero evidence. And his own task force found none, either. And of course Barr said what we all knew as well: there is no fraud. There was no pressing reason for the Jan 6th, or anyone else for that matter, to go chasing ghosts. There were no credible reports of fraud. Everyone arrested since was voting for Trump illegally.

"Okay, and the other media outlets?"

At some point, I think a countersuit is in order. Trump is claiming his statements about the election are true, and that CNN and others are lying by claiming there was no fraud. Well, that sounds like an objective statement of fact to me. And it sounds like it's intended to be damaging -- as it's the basis of a lawsuit. And he's saying it in public. I think CNN and others should countersue for defamation themselves.

Trump is facing down investigations for his crimes on all sides and is lashing out. He thinks his threats of lawsuits will have a useful effect for him. He's wrong. He's broke, outgunned, and picking fights with the cops who came to stop the barfight he started. And he doesn't exactly have lawyers to spare.

These lawsuits should not be laughed off, or handwaved. They're baseless, sure, but they're Trump's latest attempt to pass his lies as fact. This should not be allowed to stand. Everyone involved should stand their ground, and show a bully what happens when he's outnumbered.

[Beefhammer]

Use exact words with exact meaning, like "seize".

LOL! Noice.

[gondrin]

I kinda hope that Trump does try to push the lawsuit forward for the simple fact he will be the one who has to prove he was defamed. He will have to prove that, what everyone is saying, is false. He will have to prove that his own words are a lie(yes, one part of the lawsuit is stating that "All they are doing is making him look bad." when they show footage of him saying stuff). Also, he is suing because the Jan 6th commission won't search for fraud which isn't their task anyway. I would be like asking "Why aren't the firefighters investigating why this person died in this shootout?"

Now to something even more dumb, Trump and Intelligence, specifically The Presidential Daily Briefing that the Intelligence Community puts forth for the president. I will highlight the relevant parts.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...299a3531193bea

Trump's chief of staff claimed no president had ever done the presidential daily briefing 'daily': new book

Former Donald Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows had little experience in executive government when he took over at the White House. While aides continued to contend that it was Jared Kushner who was the real chief, Meadows was certainly involved in the transition efforts as the final days of the Trump administration arrived.

In Maggie Haberman's new book, "Confidence Man," she talks about the catastrophe in the transition between the Trump and Joe Biden administrations. At one point, Meadows refused to allow the policy team access to a specialized computer that helped them craft the budget.

“You just can’t expect us to endorse your spending plans," Meadows told Biden chief Ron Klain.

But it was the presidential daily briefing that resulted in the strangest of conversations. While in office, Trump didn't take the PDB seriously. Briefers were forced to devise tactics to keep the president's attention. Photos were crucial along with charts and graphs. They were desperately trying to find ways to get the president to listen and be engaged. Another problem, however, is that if Trump was too engaged he would think something was "cool" and want to take the top secret information to show it off.

The CIA revealed that Trump was very different in his briefing customs.

"For the Intelligence Community, the Trump transition was far and away the most difficult in its historical experience with briefing new presidents. The only (and imperfect) analogy was the Nixon transition, when the president-elect effectively declined to work with the IC, electing, instead, to receive intelligence information through an intermediary, National Security Advisor-designate Henry Kissinger,"the CIA report explained. "Trump was like Nixon, suspicious and insecure about the intelligence process, but unlike Nixon in the way he reacted. Rather than shut the IC out, Trump engaged with it, but attacked it publicly."

As of 2018, stories began to surface that Trump's refusal to read the daily briefing resulted in serious international issues that were being ignored.

Trump told Axios in 2017, "I like bullets or I like as little as possible. I don’t need, you know, 200-page reports on something that can be handled on a page."

By 2020, when it was revealed that there was a Russian plot to put a bounty on the heads of American soldiers in Afghanistan. Trump claimed he'd never heard of it. It turns out it was part of a presidential daily briefing. In fact, they were able to pinpoint the exact day that Trump was briefed on the issue. At the time, on Feb. 27, 2020, Trump was claiming that the COVID-19 pandemic was "going down."

Haberman wrote that Mark Meadows couldn't understand why Biden wanted the presidential daily briefing to be "daily." Meadows was in Congress for just eight years before he took the job at the White House for Trump, so his experience wasn't exactly top-level.

“How many days a week is Vice President Biden gonna want this daily brief?” Meadows asked Klain, who'd called in mid-November 2020.

Klain was "dumbstruck by the question, said that Biden would want to be briefed every day," Haberman wrote. "It was how he did it as vice president, he said."

"No president ever does that. That’s never happened," Meadows said.

"It seemed so beyond Meadows’s own experience that he could not comprehend it," the book described.

In fact, it was Trump who was the exception, refusing to read much and instead requiring a kind of performance by briefers. Former President George W. Bush did his briefing six days a week, as did Vice President Mike Pence.

Haberman's new book "Confidence Man" is on sale as of Tuesday.

The fact that the man has the attention span of a goldfish, the mindset of an adolescent and the temperament of angry badger means everyone should go out and vote when possible so this man can never set foot in office again.

[Shadowferal]

Trump's missing Jan 6th call logs are reported as being in the seized evidence from Mar-a-Lago

[Edge-]

Trump's missing Jan 6th call logs are reported as being in the seized evidence from Mar-a-Lago

shockedpikachu.jpg

Do they not make copies internally or digitize these or something?

[The Stormbringer]

Trump's missing Jan 6th call logs are reported as being in the seized evidence from Mar-a-Lago

HALLELUJAH! Let this be it! Arrest this fucker once and for all!

[solinari6]

HALLELUJAH! Let this be it! Arrest this fucker once and for all!

It's kind of astonishing to me that there was only 1 print out of the call logs, and the president took it, and there were no back ups. Shouldn't those call logs have been in a computer somewhere?

[Breccia]

Trump's missing Jan 6th call logs are reported as being in the seized evidence from Mar-a-Lago

I tried, I really did, to give Trump any credit at all for being an intelligent carbon-based life form, when I asked "why wouldn't you just destroy them?"

There is only one answer: blackmail. Trump was using them to force others into silence or keeping him from being impeached or something. And now, that person is also at risk, and Trump's direct actions will sink them, too.

And yes, I am rejecting the "he thought they were cool and kept them on whim". They were removed from the call log. This was a deliberate act.

And no, that rioter? That NY guy that Trump called? I don't buy that Trump is concerned about some nobody. Look at his history. The people who threw their lives away no longer have value to Trump, and if they were going to roll on Trump, they'd use their side of the call logs to do it, and Trump having a copy wouldn't stop that -- it'd actually make it worse. So no, that's not it.

Someone important got through to Trump. Someone that Trump still needs help from. Someone who we don't currently know was part of the murderous insurrection. And someone who should be calling every competent lawyer within 300 miles of DC right now.

[Edge-]

There is only one answer: blackmail.

Weird how Trump keeps acting like a Russian crime boss what with his love of kompromat and all.

[Breccia]

It's kind of astonishing to me that there was only 1 print out of the call logs, and the president took it, and there were no back ups. Shouldn't those call logs have been in a computer somewhere?

I think, knowing what was about to happen, he threw everyone out of the room who wasn't working directly for him, and had them destroy the copies. Whoever Trump called might have helped. But what you're describing is normal behavior when you're not trying to commit treason. Trump doesn't fit that mold. He doesn't fit in anything, actually, he's yuge.

[Ripster42]

And no, that rioter? That NY guy that Trump called?

I thought that was mini-ghoulliani that called the rioter from the WH. I don't have a clear recollection though, so you could be right.

[Breccia]

I thought that was mini-ghoulliani that called the rioter from the WH. I don't have a clear recollection though, so you could be right.

I'm referring to the most recent development, that the WH switchboard called a rioter, that we learned about 10 days ago. I did not know that the WH resident who made the call was known yet. Or are you talking about something else?

[Ripster42]

I'm referring to the most recent development, that the WH switchboard called a rioter, that we learned about 10 days ago. I did not know that the WH resident who made the call was known yet. Or are you talking about something else?

That's what I thought I was talking about, but, again, my memory of what exactly mini-g did isn't exactly crystal. I could easily be conflating things.