Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Kiri]

It would be hypocritical of someone wanting to make their country great again, to ask other countries to help, at their own expense. (See also "someone loses")

Which is, of course, what Trump is doing with the threat of tariffs on our largest trading partners. If he was that good of a dealmaker, he wouldn't need to resort to blackmail or extortion.

P.S. Canadian cheese is better except for Vermont cheddar.

To be fair, there is little difference between 'dealmaking' and threats/extortion in the US economy. A good deal just means you bought the other party severely under price.

[Molis]

P.S. Canadian cheese is better except for Vermont cheddar.

I see your Vermont Cheddar and raise you Humbolt Fog from California.

[Lanrefni]

Vermont cheddar is great,but there is a lot of damn good cheese from other states,Wisconsin for instance produces some amazing cave aged cheeses.

[Machismo]

Honestly, if all three countries can find a deal where they're all winners, I don't think I can complain. That simply does not seem to be what Trump is going for.

They did, it was called NAFTA.

[Polyxo]

Milk issue aside -- actually, let's talk about that one. Canada has accused the US of dumping low-quality milk on the open market, and added an anti-dumping tariff to block it. Trump might be throwing a hissy fit about it, but when Trump accuses China of dumping low-quality steel on the US, he is agreeing that Canada is allowed to do this. Saying anything else would be blatant hypocrisy.

Milk issue aside, it seems Trump is mostly pushing for the use of more and more US steel in cars. In alternate timelines, that might make sense. But the US does not make enough steel to suit its own needs -- we are a net importer. Mexico does the same. Canada is about even. That steel has to come from overseas. Even if it didn't, it'd be "stolen" from other industries which would have to import the steel instead. Either way, the cost to the consumer -- because Trump put a tariff on imported steel -- goes up.

Now some of you might say "just open more steel plants in the US, problem solved". Good luck with that. It's not that we're running out, but asking the US iron/steel mining and smelting industry to get the necessary facilities up and running quickly, when Trump and his policies could be out in two years, while also the price of steel (due to the tariffs) is rising and therefore lowering demand, is asking too much. That, combined with US steel is already too expensive to export, and the tariffs will make it more so.

"Wait, how?"

First of all, if prices for imported steel in the US go up, there's wiggle room for domestic steel to increase as well. There will also be a proportional spike in demand, which will help increase the prices. That, plus if the US buys less imported steel, other countries will happily take the slack -- they didn't put tariffs on it. US steel has nearly no demand in the global market, and that's due to drop.

Anyhow, look at the last two years. Try to find stories about US iron or steel works opening. Try to find data of iron and steel jobs rising. Despite Trump's actions, promises, and threats, the industry isn't moving on it. We are a capitalistic society, for good or ill. We follow the money. The steel industry isn't following Trump. They know there's no money there.

And there's a 100% chance Canada knows this. Canada isn't fucking stupid. Neither is Mexico, just to be clear.

With no forseeable strong increase in the US steel market, asking for an increase in US steel in NAFTA cars is asking for the price to increase. Period. Even if such an issue were pushed through, combined with the tariffs, car sales could drop ten percent as a result. And that's not talking about anything else made of steel, which will be hit by the tariffs (but not in NAFTA that I can see).

So will someone else lose? Yes. It will be US manufacturers, especially auto manufacturers. They will lose. And they know it, because they aren't stupid either.

I've never heard of anyone dumping 'low quality milk' on the market. From what I see, Canada just imposes tariffs to offset American agricultural subsidies.

[Breccia]

I see your Vermont Cheddar and raise you Humbolt Fog from California.

Oooooooooooh shit, that stuff is grate! Pun not typo

[Edge-]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...x-and-friends/

Oh look, the other dumb Trump son went onto Fox and Friends to dog whistle antisemites. You know, the ones that are supposed to be running his businesses and shit rather.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/r...g-people-nazi/

And while not directly related to Trump, racist shithead Steve King continues to repeat/support white supremacists and their talking points while feigning ignorance. And the Republican party remains silent on this ongoing issue.

[Kheirn]

This is the important part about tariffs; they raise domestic prices. That's ALL they do. They can be used to protect domestic industry from international competition, by raising domestic prices on imports and making domestic more competitive as a result, but the effect is still raised prices. They're anti-consumer. Unlike the supply management system above, which has tended to provide Canadians with lower prices, since Canadian farmers have reliable profit security and don't need to make enough on one season's sale to offset seasons where they end up dumping the entire load.

This is the biggest problem with Trumps "understanding" of tariffs. Somehow in his twisted minds he thinks the tariff cost is paid by other countries to the US, not that it makes cheap imported goods expensive to practically force the consumer to buy the domestic product which was the more expensive product to begin with. It's mindboggling that he's so obsessed with tariffs when he has no idea how they work or what their purpose is.

[Shadowferal]

Hmf...the tariffs raise prices because the US isn't a "producer" as it once was. Had it been the case, then the middles class would return to unions when it was producing...
Unfortunately this isn't 60 years ago...

[Breccia]

Somehow in his twisted minds he thinks the tariff cost is paid by other countries to the US

This is the <> and </> of it. And it doesn't even cover any WTO fines the US is likely to incur, nor the effects of retaliatory tariffs -- which cannot be sued for, retaliatory tariffs are 100% WTO approved. When he was told to give money to soybean farmers, I'm sure the staffers used small, and careful, words to avoid saying "This is your fault, dumbass".

[Bullettime]

Didn't feel like making it its own thread but Reddit's Greatawakening has now been banned.

For those not aware of what it is, it was subreddit dedicated to QAnon conspiracy believers to discuss said shit. Except the forum ended up being a toxic cesspool where users were doxxing journalists and political opponents (both private and public figures) and a metric ton of shooting/murder threats, attempts to organize violent rallies, and a bunch of other nonsense that went on way too long.

[Flarelaine]

Didn't feel like making it its own thread but Reddit's Greatawakening has now been banned.

For those not aware of what it is, it was subreddit dedicated to QAnon conspiracy believers to discuss said shit. Except the forum ended up being a toxic cesspool where users were doxxing journalists and political opponents (both private and public figures) and a metric ton of shooting/murder threats, attempts to organize violent rallies, and a bunch of other nonsense that went on way too long.

Social media is slowly going NIMBY on the deplorables.

[Dontrike]

Canada walks away from the NAFTA talks. There is no scheduled date for talks to resume.

If only we voted in an actual deal maker, instead we have the deal breaker with his fake tan.

[Bullettime]

Social media is slowly going NIMBY on the deplorables.

Greatawakening wasn't just used for QAnon conspiracy discussion either. The new and rising sections were also often used as basically terrorist recruitment and attempts to organize mob violence and mass shootings, often with support of the mods.

It's no wonder Reddit finally stepped in. They're probably feeling the pressure after the Hoover Dam standoff, the pizza hostages, the California wildfires, and the Capital Gazette shootings all being orchestrated by people involved in outright QAnon, or like groups, styled conspiracy communities.

[Edge-]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...an/1276670002/

Good news! The Trump administration got "A pluses" for their handling of all the hurricanes so far. And in case anyone wanted to say that Maria wasn't handled in an "A plus" manner, we've got someone to blame - the mayor of San Juan.

How did she ruin the recovery efforts for the whole island, well beyond the city limits of San Juan? Magic, that's how. Now shut up and stop asking reasonable questions.

Didn't feel like making it its own thread but Reddit's Greatawakening has now been banned.

For those not aware of what it is, it was subreddit dedicated to QAnon conspiracy believers to discuss said shit. Except the forum ended up being a toxic cesspool where users were doxxing journalists and political opponents (both private and public figures) and a metric ton of shooting/murder threats, attempts to organize violent rallies, and a bunch of other nonsense that went on way too long.

Just saw this, and I'm a big supporter of the move. Wish Reddit would start actively monitoring and handling the content posted on their site a bit more consistently.

[Captain N]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...an/1276670002/

Good news! The Trump administration got "A pluses" for their handling of all the hurricanes so far. And in case anyone wanted to say that Maria wasn't handled in an "A plus" manner, we've got someone to blame - the mayor of San Juan.

How did she ruin the recovery efforts for the whole island, well beyond the city limits of San Juan? Magic, that's how. Now shut up and stop asking reasonable questions.



Just saw this, and I'm a big supporter of the move. Wish Reddit would start actively monitoring and handling the content posted on their site a bit more consistently.

3000 people died and that's an A+....we continue to set the bar lower and lower don't we?

[Endus]

3000 people died and that's an A+....we continue to set the bar lower and lower don't we?

This means that if "only" a couple thousand people get killed by Florence this week, the administration's response is A++ doubleplusgood.

That's why you set the bar low. That way failure is victory.

- - - Updated - - -

Just saw this, and I'm a big supporter of the move. Wish Reddit would start actively monitoring and handling the content posted on their site a bit more consistently.

Honestly, it's more of an issue with users than subreddits. Get rid of a subreddit and the shitbirds find another place to roost. You need to get rid of the shitbirds. And by that, I mean with IP bans and the like, aggressively. I honestly think we could use a civil law about evading bans to continue abusing a service; it's essentially like wearing a disguise to enter an establishment you've been banned from. And if you do that in the real world, you can get charges pressed for trespassing. We just need a digital equivalent.

Obviously, not worth applying outside of serial problem-makers, just from a cost perspective, but having the option would be advantageous.

[Bullettime]

This means that if "only" a couple thousand people get killed by Florence this week, the administration's response is A++ doubleplusgood.

That's why you set the bar low. That way failure is victory.

- - - Updated - - -



Honestly, it's more of an issue with users than subreddits. Get rid of a subreddit and the shitbirds find another place to roost. You need to get rid of the shitbirds. And by that, I mean with IP bans and the like, aggressively. I honestly think we could use a civil law about evading bans to continue abusing a service; it's essentially like wearing a disguise to enter an establishment you've been banned from. And if you do that in the real world, you can get charges pressed for trespassing. We just need a digital equivalent.

Obviously, not worth applying outside of serial problem-makers, just from a cost perspective, but having the option would be advantageous.

Oh I agree. But Reddit hasn't been on the right side of issues at all and this screams "covering our own ass" given the amount of shit that has already originated from people apart of those online communities and how active the users were using it to recruit or call for other stunts.

The CEO is on record supporting shit like The Donald and against closing subs at all. They only seem to close the subs when it could lead to legal liability.

[Noxx79]

3000 people died and that's an A+....we continue to set the bar lower and lower don't we?

It’s very slightly lower (I mean VERY slightly) than the number of people who died on 9/11. Which we all know was 17 years ago!

But seriously, we have a National day of mourning/Rememberance for that, but it’s an A+ effort for the same number of deaths in PR.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Dem senator releases documents appearing to show DHS diverted $10M from FEMA to ICE

Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) on Tuesday night released documents appearing to show the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) diverted nearly $10 million from the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

The documents, first reported by MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, detail the agency's funding redirections for fiscal year 2018 and show that millions of dollars were diverted to ICE from several agencies.

Those diverted funds, totaling $33.1 million, "will provide funding in support of higher priority detention and removal requirements than those for which originally appropriated," according to the documents.

According to MSNBC, Merkely believes the transfer from FEMA to ICE was made this summer. He told Maddow that "it means that just as hurricane season is starting...the administration is working hard to find funds for child detention camps."

A hurricane is about to hit two of the most red states in the nation, the Carolinas. I wonder how the hillbillies will take it when they're told by the federal government "Sorry your house got washed away, we spent all our money on catching them illegals, so you might be homeless, but at least we're torturing immigrant kids!"