Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[DarkTZeratul]

I think he was referencing the fact that Mueller said the Trump tower meeting WOULD have been a criminal conspiracy, but in that case, it was required that Jr KNEW he was breaking the law for it to be a criminal conspiracy. So Jr was saved by his own stupidity.

More specifically, he stated that it would be difficult to PROVE that Jr knew he was breaking the law.

[some guy]

I was always under the impression that ignorance of the law no excuse for breaking it? Why do these people get a pass?

[Adam Jensen]

What kind of emergency would the president need to sell arms to another country?

The kind where the bullshit is made up and the lies don't matter.

[Ashnazg]

I was always under the impression that ignorance of the law no excuse for breaking it? Why do these people get a pass?

Potentially, but knowledge of the law isn't necessarily required to be convicted of breaking the law. Unless specifically stated in said law.

That's true for situations where the law was actually broken (e.g. you have crimes that actually happened). In such situations, even if there was no criminal intent, there was a criminal act.

In this case, the actual conspiracy never came to manifest because Russia refused to cooperate with Trump emissaries (since they had nothing valuable to offer). If they knew that what they were doing was criminal, they could still be charged with an intent to break the law (by intending to conspire with Russia), but if they didn't know that what they were doing was illegal, then there was no criminal intent in their actions and there was no actual crime committed.

[Edge-]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...stion-n1012096

Trump administration witnesses were deliberately misleading when they testified about the origins of a plan to include a citizenship question on the coming census, opponents of the idea said Thursday, citing recently discovered evidence.

While the government has maintained that adding the question was intended to improve enforcement of the Voting Rights Act, the driving force was actually a desire to get more Republicans elected to state legislatures and the U.S. House of Representatives, the ACLU said in new court filings.

The U.S. Supreme Court is now considering whether the Commerce Department acted properly in ordering the Census Bureau to include a question about citizenship on the 2020 census form that goes to every US household, despite warnings from populous states that doing so would actually make the count less accurate.

The case was argued April 23, but the ACLU on Thursday notified the court of the discovery.

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross told Congress that he ordered the question added after receiving a letter from a Justice Department official, John Gore, who said the data would improve administration of the Voting Rights Act. But the ACLU said Thursday that the suggestion for adding the question, and some of the actual language in that letter, came from a man with a long track record of helping get more Republicans elected by carefully drawing political district boundaries.

The ACLU told a federal judge in New York that the new evidence suggests Gore and an adviser to the Commerce Department "falsely testified about the genesis of DOJ's request." They wrote to Judge Jesse Furman, who in January ordered the government not to include the question. Though Furman's decision is now on appeal, he retains authority to discipline witnesses who did not testify truthfully, the ACLU said.

The judge scheduled a hearing for June 5 in New York on the ACLU's motion to impose sanctions on the government witnesses. The Justice Department has not yet responded.

The ACLU said the new evidence reveals that the idea originated with Thomas Hofeller, a Republican redistricting specialist, who wrote in letters and memos that the question would create an electoral advantage for "Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites." He helped ghostwrite a draft of the Justice Department letter, which adopted his rationale and some of the actual wording, the ACLU said.

Getting better citizenship data, Hofeller argued in newly disclosed documents, would help Republican legislatures create legislative and congressional district maps with fewer Latinos, who tend to vote for Democrats.

"Witnesses misrepresented the origin and purpose of their effort to add a citizenship question to the census. Their goal was not to protect voting rights, but to dilute the voting power of minority communities," said Dale Ho of the ACLU, which represents the 18 states challenging the administration's plan.

Both the Trump administration and the challengers agree that adding the citizenship question will reduce the census response rate, especially in immigrant communities. But when the case was argued in April, the court's conservative majority seemed prepared to rule that Secretary Ross acted within his authority to add it, because no method is guaranteed to produce an accurate count.

A census is required every ten years by the Constitution, and the results determine how many members of Congress each state gets in the US House of Representatives. The data is also used to calculate a local government's share of funds under many federal programs.

In case there was any confusion about the origins of this question. It's purely designed to ratfuck the census, an extremely important thing for the country from the federal level down to local cities, to give Republicans political advantages.

And Ross and everyone else lied about it.

Throw them mall in jail and fine them for lying. This is horse shit.

[Felya]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...stion-n1012096

In case there was any confusion about the origins of this question. It's purely designed to ratfuck the census, an extremely important thing for the country from the federal level down to local cities, to give Republicans political advantages.

And Ross and everyone else lied about it.

Throw them mall in jail and fine them for lying. This is horse shit.

Yep, just read it, but been saying from the moment Trump brought it up. This is the end of democracy... this sets up ways for a party representing a minority of population to maintain power over the majority. Places that already contribute far more than they get back from feds, will get even less.

[Paranoid Android]

Hey look more voter suppression!

Deceased G.O.P. Strategist’s Hard Drives Reveal New Details on the Census Citizenship Question

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/u....co/0wpVxigd2Q

From Jake Tapper's Twitter giving you highlights.


https://twitter.com/jaketapper/statu...629359617?s=19

NYT: "Files on those drives showed that he wrote a study in 2015 concluding that adding a citizenship question to the census would allow Republicans to draft even more extreme gerrymandered maps to stymie Democrats. "

https://t.co/0wpVxigd2Q

"...Mr. Hofeller’s charge was to assess the impact of drawing political maps that were not based on a state’s total population — the current practice virtually everywhere in the nation — but on a slice of that population: American citizens of voting age... 2/

3/ "...Hofeller’s exhaustive analysis of Texas state legislative districts concluded that such maps 'would be advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites' and would dilute the political power of the state’s Hispanics...

Yes a no bleep story, but this is coming from a GOP strategist, so adds weight.

Arghh! @Edge beat me to it . Anyways I worked hard copying and pasting so leaving it up.

[Breccia]

Imagine if Trump had to maintain a full cabinet or face a new election.

Trump doesn't want a full Cabinet. To the best of my knowledge, he's had a full Cabinet for...uh...it's gotta be less than half his term. This article from Jan 2019 says Trump had 12 Cabinet departures in his first 24 months, which is a record at least in current times. (Cabinets were smaller in previous years, so it's not a fair comparison unless we talk percent, which I'm not doing) This study gives Trump “the record for White House staff turnover, for cabinet turnover and now for the highest turnover within a single department." That department was DHS as the article coincides with the departure of Nielsen.

"Surely, you can't be serious."

Oh, I am.



Netanyahu (from linked thread) and Trump have dramatically different situations based on their Cabinet. Netanyahu, because he could not keep one together, could get fired by the voters. Trump, by contrast, is racking up points because he keeps saying "You're Fired!" Of course, there are similarities, including ongoing investigations for corruption and fraud and how they treat brown people. Maybe they'll survive, maybe not.

I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.

- - - Updated - - -

So Congress never paid for the Wall.

Trump shut down the government, and took money from other military sources, to build it anyhow.

Construction was blocked by a judge, because Trump wasn't following the rules.

Trump filed an injunction so that he could build the Wall anyhow.

This is dangerously close to OH GOD INCEPTION but the attempt in court to get around the blocking of getting around the block, has been blocked.

It was the same judge, apparently. He did not bother giving an opinion with his ruling, probably because he gave one last time. It was 56 pages.

[Dontrike]

[
So Congress never paid for the Wall.

Trump shut down the government, and took money from other military sources, to build it anyhow.

Construction was blocked by a judge, because Trump wasn't following the rules.

Trump filed an injunction so that he could build the Wall anyhow.

This is dangerously close to OH GOD INCEPTION but the attempt in court to get around the blocking of getting around the block, has been blocked.

It was the same judge, apparently. He did not bother giving an opinion with his ruling, probably because he gave one last time. It was 56 pages.

Just when you have forgotten about the wall you realize Trump is still trying to do one of the dumbest ideas ever.

[Edge-]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/a...mpression=true

Kim Hyok Chol, who led working-level negotiations for the summit in Hanoi between North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and U.S. President Donald Trump in February, was executed with four other North Korean foreign ministry officials in March, Chosun Ilbo newspaper reported, citing an unidentified source.

Kim Jong Un’s top aide Kim Yong Chol is reportedly undergoing hard labor, according to the South Korean newspaper report.

So uh...talks haven't gone well then, I guess.

[Xeones]

Holy hell that article. I know lawyers always do petty shit, but it's really weird seeing the US government being so incompetent in court.

"Unless stayed, the Court’s injunction will irreparably harm the Government (and the public) by prohibiting the Government from taking critical steps to stop the flow of illegal drugs from entering the country through the southern border," the filing read.

Is there any judge in the country who would be compelled by this blatant lie? The drugs are coming through legal ports of entry, the judges know this.

They also claimed that the preliminary injunctions will "impose irreparable injury" to the Department of Defense "by forever denying it the ability to use these funds for the projects" before the funds expire at the end of the fiscal year in September.

Who is going to be sympathetic to this argument? The funds were obviously not important if they were willing to take them away from their intended projects to the presidents brain dead project.

But Justice Department lawyers argued in court earlier this month to Judge Trevor McFadden — a Trump appointee — that the House shouldn't even be allowed to sue the administration.

Why is the Trump fallback always "Trump can do anything he wants, you can't do anything at all"?

[Dontrike]

Why is the Trump fallback always "Trump can do anything he wants, you can't do anything at all"?

Because it's all they have. Trump has yet to do anything and the only way to get him to do anything would be if out laws were not there. Of course Trump could always try the legal routes, but we all know he doesn't swing that way.

[PACOX]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/a...mpression=true



So uh...talks haven't gone well then, I guess.

Its just Kim's way of displaying his disapproval of Biden or whoever wins the DNC ticket

- DJT

[akris15]

Breaking News from the world of Policy by Tweet:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...40653926232064

On June 10th, the United States will impose a 5% Tariff on all goods coming into our Country from Mexico, until such time as illegal migrants coming through Mexico, and into our Country, STOP. The Tariff will gradually increase until the Illegal Immigration problem is remedied, at which time the Tariffs will be removed. Details from the White House to follow.

[Zaydin]

Breaking News from the world of Policy by Tweet:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...40653926232064

I have a hunch the stock market is going to tank tomorrow.

[akris15]

I have a hunch the stock market is going to tank tomorrow.

Between that and China playing their "ace" here soon things are going to start to be very...interesting....

[CastletonSnob]

Is Trump really that bad? Sure, he's done a lot of bad stuff, but is he really any worse than Bush?

[Orbitus]

Is Trump really that bad? Sure, he's done a lot of bad stuff, but is he really any worse than Bush?

Yes. Next question.

[Xeones]

Breaking News from the world of Policy by Tweet:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...40653926232064

I actually wonder if this is going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, of course, but this also seems like the sort of thing Trump tweets out and his entire administration (aside from what ever white nationalist helped him write it, stephen miller maybe?) takes it as a surprise.

[akris15]

Is Trump really that bad? Sure, he's done a lot of bad stuff, but is he really any worse than Bush?

He's done a fair amount of underlying damage to the civil service that will take years to fix. The Department of State especially but agencies like the EPA, Interior, Energy ect are in basically defunct now running off their best employees/scientists/diplomats (ect). Even the Department of Defense is having staffing issues because the State is defunct now to get into the Department of Defense its up from 6 months for a background check to 12-18 months so the past 2 years we had no new staffing and those who are at retirement age are like we are done with this shit with all the negative changes the Trump Admin made. Its going to take years to recover from this brain drain the past 2-3 years.

For example my team should have 10-12 people but there are currently only 3 of us. We technically can't do our jobs fixing multiple issues related to our Medical services for the DoD but we can do what we can. Still having to do pretty much 3 people's jobs, the constant threat of not being paid and no end in sight I know I am looking for a new job although I love it...I just can't take these 10-12 hour days because we can't get new people in...