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  1. #221
    Friends, only have 2 others(for a total of 3) they can't decide and class and one doesn't play enough, we wanna push fractals but you can only get so far with 3

  2. #222
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    HoT masteries are a damn clownshow, though. They're not "character progression", they're "Hey, we designed the map to be impossible to traverse, but here are some new abilities that you can grind for to finally be able to do so!"
    They are as much character progression as any other.
    In the end, character progression is merely a gate - in WoW, the gate is gear level, in HoT it is mastery. The gate leads to new content. That's it.
    Gating is a must concept for any MMO that want to have any longevity. It gives the player incentive to keep playing so that he can get to the "higher" content, and it is a good overall tool to give players a purpose in the game, other than self-appointed pseudo-goals that are not a driver for the majority of the playerbase, me included.
    The major problem if GW2 in general is that gating is not used nearly as much as needed to make the game addictive. Masteries were a good addition to the game, however they nearly abandoned them in PoF. The other problem with masteries was that most of them were not very usable in the end.

    And no, i don't think GW2 need gear progression at all. It is obsolete concept. What it needs is more attractive endgame goals, more horizontal gating, more consistent and prolonged story (also gated), more variety in living story maps.
    For instance, in PoF they shouldnt have handed you all the mounts, but rather made you sweat a little bit to get them, as they did with the griffin. That kind of stuff.

  3. #223
    I have only base game purchased. Dont have money for expansions.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by bladebarrier View Post
    They are as much character progression as any other.
    It's not interesting or fun "progression" at all. It was nothing more than, "Oh, you're walking along and oops, here's a wall. Please leave and grind 15 mastery points so you can climb the wall."

    It was literally the more frustrating form of "progression" they could have come up with, and likely why they didn't double down on it in PoF. Instead of gliding and such being a bonus that you worked toward, it just ended up feeling like you were mitigating a penalty placed upon you by the shitty maps.

    Not only that, but it broke up the flow of the main questline as well. Ridiculous that you'd finish one leg and then the next objective is literally, "Grind this mastery point".

  5. #225
    Well I died once when the expansion came out and I logged off and haven't logged back in.
    World of Warcraft: Shadowblands
    Diablo Bore.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's not interesting or fun "progression" at all. It was nothing more than, "Oh, you're walking along and oops, here's a wall. Please leave and grind 15 mastery points so you can climb the wall."

    It was literally the more frustrating form of "progression" they could have come up with, and likely why they didn't double down on it in PoF. Instead of gliding and such being a bonus that you worked toward, it just ended up feeling like you were mitigating a penalty placed upon you by the shitty maps.

    Not only that, but it broke up the flow of the main questline as well. Ridiculous that you'd finish one leg and then the next objective is literally, "Grind this mastery point".
    Have to echo this. Masteries are not fun. It's not a fun form of progression either imo. It's just tedious and boring.

    There's nothing fun about throwing hundreds of thousands of xp down for something such as mushroom jumping.

    Part of the reason I haven't bought PoF. Because of Masteries.

  7. #227
    Herald of the Titans Lotus Victoria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's not interesting or fun "progression" at all. It was nothing more than, "Oh, you're walking along and oops, here's a wall. Please leave and grind 15 mastery points so you can climb the wall."

    It was literally the more frustrating form of "progression" they could have come up with, and likely why they didn't double down on it in PoF. Instead of gliding and such being a bonus that you worked toward, it just ended up feeling like you were mitigating a penalty placed upon you by the shitty maps.

    Not only that, but it broke up the flow of the main questline as well. Ridiculous that you'd finish one leg and then the next objective is literally, "Grind this mastery point".
    While I agree that blocking story progression behind mastery points isn't fun, I also like to say in this subforums that with PoF, masteries have been mastered - They're way less grindy and they're way more interesting - Living Story masteries were already a lot better, and I LOVE them! For me, it's one of the better systems in the market, so in the end it all comes down to preferences.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I played it for a couple of hours when the living story came out a week or so ago.

    PoF was a great addition to the game. Mounts and the terrain design are insanely awesome in PoF.

    But without vertical progression, I can only stomach this game in small bursts. Im not a big fan of RPGs that dont allow you to progress your hero.

    This game desperately needs the trinity and vertical progression.
    Adding progression would kill the game, really. Heck, adding raids certainly didn't seem to bring back all the "I'm leaving because no raids".

    You play the game because you want to play the game and enjoy gameplay. Like pvp, it's there, no reason to only do it if you get some arbitrarily reset gear nudge.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  9. #229
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    HoT masteries are a damn clownshow, though. They're not "character progression", they're "Hey, we designed the map to be impossible to traverse, but here are some new abilities that you can grind for to finally be able to do so!"
    Isnt gear progression games like "Hey we designed the last boss to be improssible to die, but here are some new gear that you can grind for to finally be able to kill it"

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaostar View Post
    Isnt gear progression games like "Hey we designed the last boss to be improssible to die, but here are some new gear that you can grind for to finally be able to kill it"
    Pretty big gap between stronger bosses in vertical progression games and needing to grind XP just to navigate the damn map and calling it "content".

    Besides, if you're playing GW2 you probably already don't really like the vertical progression idea to begin with, so it's strange to point to it and say, "It's the same as that!" as a defense of a mechanic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus Victoria View Post
    While I agree that blocking story progression behind mastery points isn't fun, I also like to say in this subforums that with PoF, masteries have been mastered - They're way less grindy and they're way more interesting - Living Story masteries were already a lot better, and I LOVE them! For me, it's one of the better systems in the market, so in the end it all comes down to preferences.
    PoF masteries are significantly better designed, I agree.

  11. #231
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Pretty big gap between stronger bosses in vertical progression games and needing to grind XP just to navigate the damn map and calling it "content".
    Besides, if you're playing GW2 you probably already don't really like the vertical progression idea to begin with, so it's strange to point to it and say, "It's the same as that!" as a defense of a mechanic.
    My main game is WoW and im so sick of the gear grind there! But GW2 has also gear grind. Just of a different kind. And im not talking about "fashion" but of different stats!

  12. #232
    Deleted
    The complete lack of any sort of "endgame" if you aren't much into pvp/wvw (pve endgame so to speak).
    I've completed the world and i've done each of the boss events plenty of times, which just gets boring cause it's a zergfest and nothing more.
    I understand for a lot of people this is a perfect game where they can just do some stuff in small chunks but i'm at the point where everything in the game for me is pretty much "been there, done that".
    Sure i'll come back for the next expansion and do the new zones etc. though, but once done i will probably be gone again just as fast, unless they add some (better) form of endgame pve this time around

  13. #233
    I have just come back after missing three years.

    It was funny to find that since there is no vertical progression, I was able to pick it up where I left it and my main (yellows and greens with one exotic weapon) was still viable. Alright, I get clobbered in PoF content, so I got the mount and left, but all the rest is still fine.

    The masteries are a bit annoying, but it appears the PoF ones need a whole lot less experience (hundreds of thousands, not millions).

    Still hate jump puzzles (and that includes some vistas and hero point challenges).

  14. #234
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster View Post
    The complete lack of any sort of "endgame" if you aren't much into pvp/wvw (pve endgame so to speak).
    I've completed the world and i've done each of the boss events plenty of times, which just gets boring cause it's a zergfest and nothing more.
    I understand for a lot of people this is a perfect game where they can just do some stuff in small chunks but i'm at the point where everything in the game for me is pretty much "been there, done that".
    Sure i'll come back for the next expansion and do the new zones etc. though, but once done i will probably be gone again just as fast, unless they add some (better) form of endgame pve this time around
    Have you tried raids?

  15. #235
    All the disdain for masteries yet clamoring for ye ol' vertical progression grind baffles me. The latter is offered by dozens of other games on the market.

    No, the mastery system isn't perfect (I'd call it's original form at the start of HoT horrendous). Have not played PoF as of yet, so can't really comment on the new masteries via my own experience. I'd rather see some dev (Arenanet or otherwise) do something a little different rather than become "WoW Clone #56793628" out there. In this game's case, I'd rather see them flesh out the whole mastery system concept further.

    The day they add gear that is beyond ascended (in terms of stats) is the day GW2 is forever uninstalled from my PC and would also guarantee that I give any future installment of GW a pass instead of a day 1 purchase.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    All the disdain for masteries yet clamoring for ye ol' vertical progression grind baffles me. The latter is offered by dozens of other games on the market.
    I didn't see anyone saying they disliked masteries but wanted gear progression.

    The day they add gear that is beyond ascended (in terms of stats) is the day GW2 is forever uninstalled from my PC and would also guarantee that I give any future installment of GW a pass instead of a day 1 purchase.
    I don't think they're foolish enough to add another tier on top of ascended (Not yet, at least) but what they will do is keep slowly power creeping with prefixes, runes, infusions, and so on. And frankly, the gold grind to afford just another stat set on a class that you want to try a new build on (or improve your old build) often feels worse than any "true vertical" grind in other games. ><

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I didn't see anyone saying they disliked masteries but wanted gear progression.



    I don't think they're foolish enough to add another tier on top of ascended (Not yet, at least) but what they will do is keep slowly power creeping with prefixes, runes, infusions, and so on. And frankly, the gold grind to afford just another stat set on a class that you want to try a new build on (or improve your old build) often feels worse than any "true vertical" grind in other games. ><
    I see the yearning for gear progression in GW2 here (on occasion), reddit, the game's official forum; pretty much anywhere people discuss the game.

    Hell, I quit playing the game for almost a year when they announced ascended gear. That was handled horribly; there we were, a couple months after the game came out, and after being told countless times and seeing that old "dev manifesto" video passed around about what they were going to do and not do (one such "not gonna happen" was gear progression), there we were, staring at new gear with better stats.

    Having there being new prefixes/runes/etc. somewhat pushes into some very grey territory, especially since (from what I recall in HoT, at least) you have to buy the expacs to obtain those stat prefixes, like Viper's or whatever the condi builds use. I'll just continue to zerk my way around any time I happen to play, because I don't care to farm gold for days on end just to get a gear set that's considered meta. I suppose that's one driving force for going after the legendary armor, but I've not read a thing about how to obtain that, and given my complete lack of attempts to get even the old legendary weapons, the armor will likely be the same thing for me (aka cba to fuck with all that farming).

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Part of the reason I haven't bought PoF. Because of Masteries.
    PoF masteries are way better in terms of accessibility, I've skipped almost all content while doing story and only felt gated by Raptor 3 (which took about couple of hours to get and if you actually spend some time in first map, you'll easily get it). Springer 3 is also very useful and you can safely skip Skimmer and Jackal until later. Mastery points are easy to come by, you get shitton of them doing story and with insights you can max out all of the basic mounts.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  19. #239
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    Having there being new prefixes/runes/etc. somewhat pushes into some very grey territory, especially since (from what I recall in HoT, at least) you have to buy the expacs to obtain those stat prefixes, like Viper's or whatever the condi builds use. I'll just continue to zerk my way around any time I happen to play, because I don't care to farm gold for days on end just to get a gear set that's considered meta. I suppose that's one driving force for going after the legendary armor, but I've not read a thing about how to obtain that, and given my complete lack of attempts to get even the old legendary weapons, the armor will likely be the same thing for me (aka cba to fuck with all that farming).
    Interesting argument. MMOs have always been all about grinding in PvE. What else would you be doing in such a game if not grind to access gated content? Sure they cannot provide endless amount of fresh and interesting story, so at some point you arrive to the grind mine and start digging. Regardless of that being for gear, masteries,vanity items, skins, achievements. It always come down to this.
    Imagine there is no grind whatsoever, you have your 5-10 hours gameplay to finish the storyline, then everything you want from the game you can get with little effort, no grinding. What would you be doing next if you are not into PvP?

  20. #240
    my main reason to stop was the limit on characters once done leveling up 3 chars there was no challenge for me

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