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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarus View Post
    I log in every few months, get stuck on the main quest as I travel around the area, and everywhere I go, it appears I need a different mount or whatever, so I end up killing the endless spawns of monsters for fun, and then I just log off again.
    In the base game or one of the expansions? Even if it's PoF, the game will guide you to unlocking the necessary mounts for progression (raptor, hopper, skimmer, sand wolf are the only 'necessary' ones). If it's the base game it should all be acessible without mounts/gliding.

  2. #802
    Have been back playing GW2 for the last few weeks since running out of content in WOW SL. GW2 is just awesome and has like ten times the depth of WoW. Probably the best MMOG that's out there today.

    P.S. the Chinese New Year's stuff just started and you can rent a mount for 10s to do the race in Divinity's Reach if you don't have the expac.

  3. #803
    Not being facetious at all, but it's just boring. That's the reason. :/

  4. #804
    lack of trinity and the gameplay as a whole.

  5. #805
    Dreadlord bloodkin's Avatar
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    I play it on and off. The gameplay is great with certain professions. Story can be great but not everything is at the same level and can be bothersome at times. The only thing that really don't like is the graphics. Most of the times I'm not that bothered but sometimes it looks like some D tier j-rpg and I detest those.
    'Something's awry.' -Duhgan 'Bel' beltayn

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  6. #806
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    So you've cherrypicked two examples (TESO is not p2p btw) and decided that this means that formula works, despite dozens of failed attempts, which indicate that maybe those two were anomalies.

    I play SWTOR too, it doesn't suddenly change the fact that the game collapsed from 200 servers to only 5 and nowadays is maintained by skeleton crew of dozen or so devs.
    LOTRO never was big. There is a niche market for it and that's only reason why it's still around (arguably it's the same for SWTOR).
    EQ2 was a failure since day 1 and nowadays has far smaller population than the first game.
    Note that I've only mentioned relatively high profile projects, there were tons more, all with the same fate.
    I didn't cherry pick anything. It's the most successful mmo's in the market by quite a bit. You are the one cherry picking from scraps.

    I mean, because there are battle royale games that shut down, does that mean Fortnite doesn't have a successful formula? Your logic right there.

    Stop taking it personally. I said what i would like to happen. You disagree, it's fine. I'm not here to convince you.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-02-05 at 09:34 PM.

  7. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Stop taking it personally. I said what i would like to happen.
    You'd like to make franchise what it never was to conform to some magical success formula that worked for two games in 25 years. I could have stopped at sending you back to those two games as was done earlier, but wanted to actually confirm if you are aware about success rate of said formula.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  8. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I didn't cherry pick anything. It's the most successful mmo's in the market by quite a bit. You are the one cherry picking from scraps.

    I mean, because there are battle royale games that shut down, does that mean Fortnite doesn't have a successful formula? Your logic right there.

    Stop taking it personally. I said what i would like to happen. You disagree, it's fine. I'm not here to convince you.
    This happens in every other game subforum every time a discussion starts about the game.

    It's just not worth engaging with the, "YOU JUST WANT WOW GET OUT" people. They're almost never arguing honestly or rationally anyway.

  9. #809
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    You'd like to make franchise what it never was to conform to some magical success formula that worked for two games in 25 years. I could have stopped at sending you back to those two games as was done earlier, but wanted to actually confirm if you are aware about success rate of said formula.
    No, it did not work. It's in decline. The studio layed off half it's work force and couldn't get GW3 greenlit. Patches are being smaller and further between

    WoW and FF are successful, have millions of players, have regular expansions. There is no debate to be had here. You are not entitled to what i would like to see happen and your logic is unconvincing. Guild wars doesn't belong to you. I am as much a fan as you and i would like to see it change. Can't deal with my opinion? Your problem. Move along.

  10. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    This happens in every other game subforum every time a discussion starts about the game.

    It's just not worth engaging with the, "YOU JUST WANT WOW GET OUT" people. They're almost never arguing honestly or rationally anyway.
    I mean, if I said "I want FFXVI with character creation like in TES, skill leveling like in TES, open world exploration and lots of dungeons like in TES, solo with optional companions like in TES instead of some pre-defined party, guild questlines like in TES, magic system line in TES", you'd probably send me back to TES, right? Because series always was direct opposite of everything I've mentioned (except skill leveling in FFII).
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    No, it did not work. It's in decline. The studio layed off half it's work force and couldn't get GW3 greenlit. Patches are being smaller and further between

    WoW and FF are successful, have millions of players, have regular expansions. There is no debate to be had here. You are not entitled to what i would like to see happen and your logic is unconvincing. Guild wars doesn't belong to you. I am as much a fan as you and i would like to see it change. Can't deal with my opinion? Your problem. Move along.
    'Worked' referred to your "P2P vertical progression theme park" formula that killed the genre by flooding it by multitude of failed WoW clones. Arena.net always had different vision of what the genre should be, which got them existing playerbase. If you seriously think they have to disregard everything they stood for and everyone that followed their vision to go and do what plenty of others failed at, you're just deluding yourself.

    FF doesn't have "millions of players" btw, latest lodestone scan puts it under 900k active characters, so the real player numbers are even lower due to alts.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  11. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    'Worked' referred to your "P2P vertical progression theme park" formula that killed the genre by flooding it by multitude of failed WoW clones.
    That's a strange take, considering that all the games that built the genre were largely the same formula, too.

    Claiming that it was somehow unique to WoW at the time or that it was a new idea that "killed the genre" is plainly false.

  12. #812
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    I mean, if I said "I want FFXVI with character creation like in TES, skill leveling like in TES, open world exploration and lots of dungeons like in TES, solo with optional companions like in TES instead of some pre-defined party, guild questlines like in TES, magic system line in TES", you'd probably send me back to TES, right? Because series always was direct opposite of everything I've mentioned (except skill leveling in FFII).


    'Worked' referred to your "P2P vertical progression theme park" formula that killed the genre by flooding it by multitude of failed WoW clones. Arena.net always had different vision of what the genre should be, which got them existing playerbase. If you seriously think they have to disregard everything they stood for and everyone that followed their vision to go and do what plenty of others failed at, you're just deluding yourself.

    FF doesn't have "millions of players" btw, latest lodestone scan puts it under 900k active characters, so the real player numbers are even lower due to alts.
    No, the formula didn't kill anything as i clearly examplified to you with Fortnite and all the failed battle royales.
    Bad games are bad games. The formula was not the reason those games failed. They failed cause of the execution because we have clear examples that the formula is the most sucessful in the market.

    You are the one delluding yourself. GW2 was an atempt to create a new formula, but it is clear by now that it failed. The WoW formula as you put it, which is a reductive way to see it, is the proven working formula. Players love it and make these games the most sucessful in the market.
    GW2 tried, but it failed. It's time to admit mistakes and plan for the future.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-02-06 at 04:23 AM.

  13. #813
    "Failed" doesn't seem accurate. And - as you said - failures may well be the fault of the game, not the combat/class design, so any shortcomings that GW2 has don't necessarily have to be the fault of that design.

    GW2's gameplay is fun, and it's fine to be a different entry in the genre. It's clear a lot of people like it.

  14. #814
    I'm sure some people like it. But, that is not my opinion.
    Rogalicus seems personally afronted that i don't share his and he needs to get over it. I didn't come here to tell everyone what to think, i came to tell my opinion, which he seem to be unable to accept and i entertained for far too long now.
    Might be time to add to the blacklist.

  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    That's a strange take, considering that all the games that built the genre were largely the same formula, too.

    Claiming that it was somehow unique to WoW at the time or that it was a new idea that "killed the genre" is plainly false.
    I mean, UO, Asheron's Call, AO, DAoC, SWG and CoH weren't exactly the same formula. WoW is largely attributed to bunch of burned out EQ players making attempt to polish EQ's gameplay and raiding. Most high profiled releases that followed WoW (aside from Korean MMOs) were mostly carbon copies of WoW, from gameplay to UI: WoW in Middle Earth (LOTRO), WoW but with some DAoC remnants (WAR), WoW in another fantasy world (Allods Online), WoW in another fantasy world (Rift), WoW in a galaxy far, far away (SWTOR). I think it ends after SWTOR, because investors looked at the results and decided to not bother anymore, so there were only handful of western releases after that (in a decade), which were mostly their own things. I could've also mentioned Vanguard, but it was more like "what if EQ2 was developed by original EQ's lead designer".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Might be time to add to the blacklist.
    Feel free to, you've been on mine for over a year.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    I mean, UO, Asheron's Call, AO, DAoC, SWG and CoH weren't exactly the same formula. WoW is largely attributed to bunch of burned out EQ players making attempt to polish EQ's gameplay and raiding. Most high profiled releases that followed WoW (aside from Korean MMOs) were mostly carbon copies of WoW, from gameplay to UI: WoW in Middle Earth (LOTRO), WoW but with some DAoC remnants (WAR), WoW in another fantasy world (Allods Online), WoW in another fantasy world (Rift), WoW in a galaxy far, far away (SWTOR). I think it ends after SWTOR, because investors looked at the results and decided to not bother anymore, so there were only handful of western releases after that (in a decade), which were mostly their own things. I could've also mentioned Vanguard, but it was more like "what if EQ2 was developed by original EQ's lead designer".

    - - - Updated - - -


    Feel free to, you've been on mine for over a year.
    Clearly not, cause you managed to reply to me.

  17. #817
    I don't know anyone that plays it

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    I mean, UO, Asheron's Call, AO, DAoC, SWG and CoH weren't exactly the same formula. WoW is largely attributed to bunch of burned out EQ players making attempt to polish EQ's gameplay and raiding. Most high profiled releases that followed WoW (aside from Korean MMOs) were mostly carbon copies of WoW, from gameplay to UI: WoW in Middle Earth (LOTRO), WoW but with some DAoC remnants (WAR), WoW in another fantasy world (Allods Online), WoW in another fantasy world (Rift), WoW in a galaxy far, far away (SWTOR). I think it ends after SWTOR, because investors looked at the results and decided to not bother anymore, so there were only handful of western releases after that (in a decade), which were mostly their own things. I could've also mentioned Vanguard, but it was more like "what if EQ2 was developed by original EQ's lead designer".
    See, this is why the discussion is silly.

    You talk about how "trinity" games are somehow all failures, then rattle off a list of different games, half of which are closed and the other half are barely known in comparison. If games like EQ, EQ2, FFXI, etc are "failures" to you, then what are CoH, AC or SWG?

    It's just a silly debate all around. Trinity-based games have been some of the most successful, long-standing games that have defined the genre in the eye of the community. That's not me arguing that non-trinity based games are bad, it's just a fact, is all.

  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    See, this is why the discussion is silly.

    You talk about how "trinity" games are somehow all failures, then rattle off a list of different games, half of which are closed and the other half are barely known in comparison. If games like EQ, EQ2, FFXI, etc are "failures" to you, then what are CoH, AC or SWG?

    It's just a silly debate all around. Trinity-based games have been some of the most successful, long-standing games that have defined the genre in the eye of the community. That's not me arguing that non-trinity based games are bad, it's just a fact, is all.
    First of all, I think I should make clear that my argument wasn't about trinity, it was about "vertical progression instance-centered theme park" heavily popularized by WoW, a concept that somehow overtook an idea of MMO being a vast living world and transformed it into "queue and AFK" gameplay we know now. Surprisingly it's more prevalent in FFXIV, even WoW still tries to hold a resemblance of what genre was originally.

    EQ2 is certainly a failure, it never was big and has something like 10k subs now, way under the first game. I didn't call EQ and FFXI failures, but they came before WoW and AFAIK don't even have the same trinity. IIRC holy trinity in EQ was something like "healer, tank, controller" with DPS being an afterthought. You couldn't just pull everything in sight and mow them down with AoE.

    And GW2 has dedicated tank/support and heal/support builds, which makes your take even less relevant, they are just not imposed in most of the content.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  20. #820
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    No, it did not work. It's in decline. The studio layed off half it's work force and couldn't get GW3 greenlit. Patches are being smaller and further between

    WoW and FF are successful, have millions of players, have regular expansions. There is no debate to be had here. You are not entitled to what i would like to see happen and your logic is unconvincing. Guild wars doesn't belong to you. I am as much a fan as you and i would like to see it change. Can't deal with my opinion? Your problem. Move along.
    Now you're just spewing unsubstantiated claims...

    NCSoft canceled an unknown project frankly because Anets management had lost its mind, there was scope creep up their behinds. No one knows what they were. Since then Anet has had favorable earning reports. Their formula has always worked as being the alternative to the EQ/WoW setup. And the numbers show. One does not need WoW numbers to show that the formula works, same way you said the hundreds failed games that used the EQ/WoW formula doesn't mean that system does not work.

    Seriously if you you're an MMORPG player not playing WoW or FFXIV, you are playing GW2. Maybe ESO.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2021-02-06 at 07:02 AM.

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