What's preventing you from coming back to/playing Guild Wars 2?

[PACOX]

Masteries themselves are a pain.

I'd rather them just do a new level cap every expansion.

how are mastery levels any different from raising the cap? both are just earning xp for the most part (expect getting HoT points which can be a pain, actually fixed if you have access to LS3 and/or raid).

[PACOX]

I never said you needed to be fully ascended either did I? But any sane group for a 100 Fractal would take a fully Ascended player based on the stats. 6% might not be much but it's still a difference in a raid/high fractal.

I said that Full Exos ain't getting you much in the way of AR and that no sane group would take you to a high one.

I asked the question of which group would take what player out of the two presented? Stats still matter but as you said it's not a huge difference and maybe some groups do take Exotic geared players. But it's still Exotic gear and it's still lower than Ascended.

full exotics, nope you're not doing high fractals but then theres that treadmill you said thats needed. if you dont know how to secure a few pieces of ascended then you're not ready for lvl 100 anyway.

raids can be done full exotic no problem.

you question assumes people are pinging gear, which is uncommon in gw2. if im running a fractal and question your resolve im going to ask you to step into an agony field to see how much ar you have, really couldn't care less if you had all ascended gear or not (we agreed that full exotic is out of the question for high fractals). im only going to go to my dps meter if we wipe. high lvl fractals are composition/player skill > ar > dps (related to class/gear not player skill).

[PACOX]

raids feel better imo in exotics (but you wont see me downgrading my gear). they feel more challenging, if i wanted to outgear raid content i would play wow.

[Lotus Victoria]

raids feel better imo in exotics (but you wont see me downgrading my gear). they feel more challenging, if i wanted to outgear raid content i would play wow.

I've raided for the first time two weeks ago and I can't remember the last time I had so much fun with an MMO.

[Brocksley]

I wish I could figure out what it was, then maybe I could address it and play again. The game just never grabs me. I haven't played since HoT launched.
There are lots of little things I don't like:

-being forced into using certain weapons due to the skills they provide (Sorry you can't be a thief with a bow, they are weak, you have to be melee. Sorry you can't be a bow warrior they are only for WvW)
-ranger pets that are even worse than hunter pets in wow. They don't feel useful or interesting at all, and they are just plain stupid AI
-nearly all the weapons feel like gimmicks. There is usually only 1 main and 1 swap choice that works, the others are weak or gimmicky and aren't usable.
-ranged weapons are almost always worse than melee due to the way boons and combos stack you need to be close to each other all the time
-level scaling made me feel like I never got stronger
-content that gets removed when new content is added and forcing me to pay for incremental story progression if I come back
-all the new events that came out were just zerg fest grinds just with a different bad guy
-all the dungeons felt like zerg fests
-meaningless PvP (WvW just a huge mob running around the map doing meaningless activities with no story or reason)
-having to buy the old expansion in addition to the new (instead of just buying the new one and being brought up to current)
-5 skills on my bar
-elite specs seem like whats the point of other specs now
-loading screens, so many loading screens
-boring armor sets (every medium armor is just a long jacket)
-grinding, grinding, grinding like theres no tomorrow to get the legendary or ancient or what ever the high level items are called
-armor sets tied to certain dungeons, If I want an armor set I have to run X dungeon 100 times to get the armor set tokens for it. I can't run a variation of dungeons.
-group making was awful (maybe fixed now, I dunno)

Maybe it's just a sum of all the little things.

[PACOX]

I wish I could figure out what it was, then maybe I could address it and play again. The game just never grabs me. I haven't played since HoT launched.
There are lots of little things I don't like:

-being forced into using certain weapons due to the skills they provide (Sorry you can't be a thief with a bow, they are weak, you have to be melee. Sorry you can't be a bow warrior they are only for WvW)
-ranger pets that are even worse than hunter pets in wow. They don't feel useful or interesting at all, and they are just plain stupid AI
-nearly all the weapons feel like gimmicks. There is usually only 1 main and 1 swap choice that works, the others are weak or gimmicky and aren't usable.
-ranged weapons are almost always worse than melee due to the way boons and combos stack you need to be close to each other all the time
-level scaling made me feel like I never got stronger
-content that gets removed when new content is added and forcing me to pay for incremental story progression if I come back
-all the new events that came out were just zerg fest grinds just with a different bad guy
-all the dungeons felt like zerg fests
-meaningless PvP (WvW just a huge mob running around the map doing meaningless activities with no story or reason)
-having to buy the old expansion in addition to the new (instead of just buying the new one and being brought up to current)
-5 skills on my bar
-elite specs seem like whats the point of other specs now
-loading screens, so many loading screens
-boring armor sets (every medium armor is just a long jacket)
-grinding, grinding, grinding like theres no tomorrow to get the legendary or ancient or what ever the high level items are called
-armor sets tied to certain dungeons, If I want an armor set I have to run X dungeon 100 times to get the armor set tokens for it. I can't run a variation of dungeons.
-group making was awful (maybe fixed now, I dunno)

Maybe it's just a sum of all the little things.

- Preferences are preferences but this never bothered me. If youre wielding a particular weapon with particular characteristics then your actions should reflect that. Also shortbows arent bad on thieves as longbows arent on warriors. Not sure who told you that.

- Ever ranger pet in gw2 has their own unique set of skills though. PoF allows you take on those skills for yourself. The synergy between ranger and their pets is pretty high if you take certain traits.

- Not true at all...

- Range is a trade off for safety.

- Level scaling never made you feel stronger but a downleveled 80 will still out perform someone who isnt downleveled.

- ??? Mindless zergs usually fail. I wouldnt confuse the ability for others to carry others as just "zerging" Any old open world boss in gw2 is still harder and dynamic than any open world boss in WoW.

- Theres a reason why dungeons were traded for fractals

- What is "meaningful pvp" and wvw really isnt just zerg v zerg.

- The expansions are standalone.

- 10 skills min...how many do you need anyway?

- Elite specs are just one trait line...3 selected traits out of 9, i dont understand the criticism.

- Maps need to be loaded. Dont have a SSD?

- Except the ones that arent!

- Legendaries are called legendaries because they take time and effort to get

- Honestly dont understand this point. Yes certain skins are tied to certain content, how is that bad?

- Much easier and faster than any automated LFG tool in other MMORPGs

[Gray_Matter]

I'll repeat myself again since you guys keep quoting the same stuff. It's all psychological. I know there's no hard reset of progression in the game so i will still feel like im 4 years behind everyone else in terms of gameplay.

I didn't get to finishing the thread until now. Just saw your responses. I can understand. There was a really good post on page 4 or 5 explaining the issue. It's more difficult for me to get a handle on because I see other MMO's that have gear/legendary/etc progression where those impediments can actually limit a person competing. On the other hand they have a "reset" every expansion so that gives people an opportunity to get back on the train.

[Sevyvia]

I don't really have the time for more than 1 MMO, and that's WoW. I do have GW2, and went back to it about a year ago where I got to max level. GW2 is fun, but there just isn't much in it to keep me playing it on the casual basis I can with WoW. It's entirely possible, actually very likely, that there's plenty to do and I just don't know about it. I also don't really have the time to learn it, so, there you go.

[Brocksley]

-snip-

Well, I played the game and that's exactly how it made me feel. My experiences happened. I'm not bashing or criticizing the game. I'm stating the way the game made me feel when I played it. You can't invalidate that. OP asked whats preventing me from coming back, those are my reasons based on my experience.

[Svifnymr]

how are mastery levels any different from raising the cap? both are just earning xp for the most part (expect getting HoT points which can be a pain, actually fixed if you have access to LS3 and/or raid).

Because Mastery doesn't require prior content. If HoT added level 80-90, then PoF added 90-100, you'd need to have HoT to get PoF. It's exclusionary.

Mastery is an addition to basic accessibility but is not in general a power increase, just a gating mechanic. Mastery was tedious in HoT, much better done in PoF.

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So if I leave with Exos and come back when Viper gear is introduced which you know is damn strong for a condi build I wouldn't be behind someone in full Viper Ascended gear if I wanted to play the upto date condi builds?

The simple fact is it really has been 4 years. Ascended isn't a treadmill, it's a step. Respeccing gear is also much different than earning entirely new gear. The idea that you could be behind if you played at launch and set the game aside for 4 years, and to hit the max-level of content possible would require you to get the gear, it's really an edge case that doesn't apply to the argument except as a "feeling", which is fine, but eh.

And to be honest even when geared with the build you are aiming for what then? It's boring not having a new gear treadmill to work for when your build is done.

Most of us don't want a gear treadmill, we'd rather the content be the goal, and playing the game be it's own reward. As someone that didn't raid in WoW, endgame content was a myth. It's gotten better since then, I've heard, but anyone that did rep-grinds as endgame probably doesn't consider it engaging content. Comparing replay value seems off too, as scaling makes GW2 a lot different. I know TOR has some scaling now, but not sure on WoW.

There is absolutely such a thing as being behind in GW2 and it's wrong to state otherwise. It's just not as detrimental as other games unless you are wanting to pump out the higher end PvE content such as high Fractals or raids.

You can be behind, yes, but only because you haven't gotten to the end yet. If you wander out of the starting instance, a fresh level 2, look at the world and say "I'm so far behind, I should just quit now", it's no less accurate.

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Well, I played the game and that's exactly how it made me feel. My experiences happened. I'm not bashing or criticizing the game. I'm stating the way the game made me feel when I played it. You can't invalidate that. OP asked whats preventing me from coming back, those are my reasons based on my experience.

You're not wrong on most stuff, except the content doesn't go away anymore (that change was a few years ago) and the "gotta buy the old expac" is a little off. The idea behind GW2 is that none of the content is invalid. When you're level 80, you can go back to the starter zone and get some loot of your level. Shadow Behemoth is the same event. Which you dislike, granted.

The flip side is that old content is not required either, it's just there. You don't need HoT to play PoF. HoT has gliding, sure, and it's own story. Gliding is fun. It's not required though. So you "gotta buy the expac" if you want the expac content. If you want to pop into the game and play the new stuff, then you buy the new stuff and play it.

Like in the olden days of WoW, now thankfully done. The problem with buying the old content was that you had to do it. When you wanted to level up and ship off to fight the Lich King, you needed to buy BC and level through zones that were empty in order to get there. GW2 isn't like that.

[Deleted]

So if I leave with Exos and come back when Viper gear is introduced which you know is damn strong for a condi build I wouldn't be behind someone in full Viper Ascended gear if I wanted to play the upto date condi builds?

And considering there are groups starting to use unofficial DPS meters in high fractals who are you going to take? The Exo pulling less DPS because their gear/build isn't upto date or the Ascended pulling a boatload because their gear/build is upto date?

Same with Agony Resistance. Who are you going to take in a high fractal? Someone in orange gear with no AR or someone geared with AR? If people come back to the game and want to do PvE depending on the gear they left with they will have to play catch up.

And to be honest even when geared with the build you are aiming for what then? It's boring not having a new gear treadmill to work for when your build is done.

There is absolutely such a thing as being behind in GW2 and it's wrong to state otherwise. It's just not as detrimental as other games unless you are wanting to pump out the higher end PvE content such as high Fractals or raids.

I don't mean to pile up, but your comparison just doesn't make sense. when you were in exotics before leaving the game you weren't doing high fractals either. Why should you when you got back? End-game is not handed to you like that. But, with your exotics you will have no problem getting into tier 1 fractals and start getting ascended drops. It doesn't require much agony resistance for tier 2, wich i believe is when you may start seeing weapon drops.
There is a progression system. You will be exactly in the same place you were with your exotics when you get back. Not ahead, nor behind.

Power progression in GW2 seems to come from new elite specializations, or from new/different(more optimal) stats in the gear.

As someone who plays both games, theres advantages and disavantages to both.

[Astalnar]

Time constraints and lack of general interests.

The biggest reason why I bought GW2 on release was personal story, which turned out to be dissapointing. And as much as I keep with current things, the feature was gutted, and then reintroduced as a "living story" which to me sounds like generic public quests with a bit of flavour.

[Moozart]

As a completionist I missed stuff that is now unobtainable. This makes the game unplayable to me. If every single item was somehow still obtainable, I would play.

So you are that 1 player in WoW that has All items from day one?

[Alydael]

I don't mean to pile up, but your comparison just doesn't make sense. when you were in exotics before leaving the game you weren't doing high fractals either. Why should you when you got back? End-game is not handed to you like that. But, with your exotics you will have no problem getting into tier 1 fractals and start getting ascended drops. It doesn't require much agony resistance for tier 2, wich i believe is when you may start seeing weapon drops.
There is a progression system. You will be exactly in the same place you were with your exotics when you get back. Not ahead, nor behind.

Power progression in GW2 seems to come from new elite specializations, or from new/different(more optimal) stats in the gear.

As someone who plays both games, theres advantages and disavantages to both.

I think the problem is that the GW2 team (Anet devs, etc) doesn't make it clear enough what is constituting progression and what there is to do. Most people I talk to (including some playing) don't seem to fully understand it.

In both x pacs, they added elite specializations- then the proper gear stat combos to max it out. So- progression would be something like: elite specialization completion, finish your new story, farm out your new gear/ stat combo set, new map completion, fractals, there are dailies, they added raids with HOT and don't forget PVP. You also have those achievements that coincide with the story chapters and crafting new legendaries.

There is actually a ton to do, but A Net needs to connect it all in someone meaningful way so that instead of being: a bunch of seemingly unconnected stuff to do; it can be: a narrative that connects all those things and through the narrative makes a clear suggestions to the player as to what there next step in progression is.


Also, PVP is a huge part of that game. I would actually say the game is more PVP focused than PVE. PVE amounts to little more than a fashion show.

[Gray_Matter]

nope. not the standard edition. https://buy.guildwars2.com/store?Act...eID=4785548100

have to buy deluxe or ultimate edition to get the extra character slot and if I'm not willing to pay $30, why would I pay $55 or more? its a good deal only IF you know for a fact you will enjoy the content. I have my doubts, after the trial and what my friend is telling me as far as difficulty of content goes.

Ok. I didn't realize it was in the deluxe because I only bought the base version but bought the deluxe upgrade through gems (gold -> gems).

on 1 - I checked the dailies yesterday for my later reply. its still the new style the ONLY thing that changed is that instead of a single zone you get a choice between 2-3 zones within the region, but its still severely limited compared to old meta.

Sorry about that. I misread the comment. I am not a fan of the new daily system. I far preferred the old version that was more generic. i.e. Do an event in Orr, rather than a specific area inside Orr. On the plus side, they now have many more banks of dailies that you can do. Bitterfrost dailies, normal ones, etc. I normally get the Bitterfrost ones by just playing regularly there.

on 3 - from what I saw, it still felt more focused on structured group content, maybe not as much as HoT, but still more so then vanilla. I mean.. the zones seem to be marginally more opened, but according to my actively playing friend, as a lot of locations require specific mounts to be able to traverse - its open in all but a name. its still linear enough to require getting required mounts first.

The mounts are far easier to get than the HoT masteries and don't need any group play. I never play in groups and haven't had any issues as I did in HoT.

[Bullettime]

Not sure why but I get super motion sick when I play it. I got the same thing when I tried Blade and Soul. I don't have issues with WoW or FFXIV.

[Gray_Matter]

That's essentially my view. I like the reset. I like working towards the new level cap and new gear. It feels more progressive imo.

Not saying GW2 doesn't have progression because that would just be downright idiotic of me to say so but once I get the gear I'm after for that character what then? I'm Viper Geared on my Necro for example. What do I farm for now? Unless they make a new condi set that outdoes Viper.

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It all boils down to goals. In traditional MMO's those goals are given to you. There is a clear process for users to follow:
1. First the users play through the quests in the expansion and level up to the new max level
2. They play through dungeons and lower grouped contents building up gear to progress to more difficult content that has higher gear requirements.
3. They progress through the higher difficulty grouped content using gear increases to progesss.

In GW2 it's different. I would have preferred for there not to be any levels at all because that misleads people. The progression is what you make it. Their goals are more relaxed. You have the personal story / expansion story that leads people through the expansion but after that it about what goals you as the player want to achieve. You could do level up in WvW or level up in Fractals. You could try and progress in raids. You could gear out in ascended or work on a legendary. They have collections, PVP, jumping puzzles, world completion, masteries (that you don't like), etc. And that's not even getting into the cosmetic side of things. You could go out and gather minis or skins. Those are all different ways that you can progress. The difference is that it's really up to you what you want to do. Many people will be working on different goals. It's not the same as a tradional MMO expansion where almost everyone is working on the same set of goals.

For me, it's better because I don't have time for a traditional MMO. I just in for an hour or two here or there. It's part of the reason why I argued with people on MMO Champ about why I thought other MMO's needed a flex type model that used LFG and worked a single boss at a time. More challenging content for people who can't commit X hours to a game.

Right now I am working on gearing up all of my alts with ascended trinkets and back items. Once that is done then I will look for my next task. I still have lots that I would like to do. I haven't even finished all of the dungeons.

[Liftbrul]

A friend of mine hopped from vanilla to HoT to PoF without ever playing the living stories (as he miraculously managed to dodge them when they were free) and his most vocal complaint has been "I have no idea what the fuck is going on and who the fuck these people are", which made me wonder why the living stories aren't bundled with the expansions.

[Gray_Matter]

There is actually a ton to do, but A Net needs to connect it all in someone meaningful way so that instead of being: a bunch of seemingly unconnected stuff to do; it can be: a narrative that connects all those things and through the narrative makes a clear suggestions to the player as to what there next step in progression is.

I think this is really important. A/Net don't lead the people towards goals. They just throw them out in the world. A couple of pages back someone mentioned the need for a tutorial for returning players. I would even take that further. Maybe a tutorial that leads people into different things. The user gets to choose what they would like to do and there is a little bit of story that kicks them off along the way with some hints. They could maybe even leverage the daily system for it.

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A friend of mine hopped from vanilla to HoT to PoF without ever playing the living stories (as he miraculously managed to dodge them when they were free) and his most vocal complaint has been "I have no idea what the fuck is going on and who the fuck these people are", which made me wonder why the living stories aren't bundled with the expansions.

They should be. No question.

[Vathoren]

Played vanilla GW2 extensively, got to end game content and quit a little after fractals were released. I feel like there's too much lore to catch up - a good problem I know - I feel like I've missed out on so much I'm not going to know what's going on. Twas awesome for the time I played it though.