View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19981
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    That's just to stop an incoming PM from proroguing parliament though? It still remains that the only way Article 50 can be extended is if the new PM writes to the EU and requests that. The new PM, under peril of the brexit party, can refuse to do that even if parliament instructs him/her to do so.

    Chlorinated chicken, yummy.
    As I understand it this is just the beginning of the process to give MPs control of the Brexit timetable.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48598760

  2. #19982
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    As I understand it this is just the beginning of the process to give MPs control of the Brexit timetable.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48598760
    October 31st is the end date of the brexit timetable whatever parliament does. Only the PM, by writing to the EU and with their agreement, can alter that date. If that extension request letter never arrives at the EU by Oct 31st, what parliament says matters nowt. We are out.

    Do you really see Boris writing that begging letter as Theresa did? That would be a gift to the Brexit party...

  3. #19983
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Hahaha

    Except things are a bit different this time. Whoever comes next is not going to be a remainer PM leading a remain cabinet. The softest Brexit you are going to get is the Boris Johnson WTO brexit, anything else will have Farage paws all over it.

    Must hurt if you are a remainer to be rooting for Boris Johnson as your best softest brexit option PM, bwahhhahahahaaa
    Again, we are going to have to educate you about reality. Johnson being PM doesn't change the math in Parliament. Still no majority for no-deal, and still a guarantee that MPs will do everything they can to stop it happening. The deal that May negotiated is the only one on the table, and there isn't any support for that. Want to renegotiate that? Fine, lets start the clock again and in a couple of years time we might have another deal. By then more of the old rascists that voted for Brexit will have died, and the majority against it would have increased further.

    The longer this goes on, the greater the chance the whole thing gets called off. And regardless of which of the Tories win, you don't have the numbers to push through pretty much any form of Brexit, let alone a hard one.

    So go ahead and gloat. It just shows, as usual, how little you understand of what's happening.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

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  4. #19984
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    October 31st is the end date of the brexit timetable whatever parliament does. Only the PM, by writing to the EU and with their agreement, can alter that date. If that extension request letter never arrives at the EU by Oct 31st, what parliament says matters nowt. We are out.

    Do you really see Boris writing that begging letter as Theresa did? That would be a gift to the Brexit party...
    So Boris will either last up until the next GE because of the terrible impact of no-deal Brexit and be gone or he will not deliver Brexit and be gone with the next GE by boosting the Brexit Party.

    A great position he maneuvered his stupid ass into.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  5. #19985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    So Boris will either last up until the next GE because of the terrible impact of no-deal Brexit and be gone or he will not deliver Brexit and be gone with the next GE by boosting the Brexit Party.

    A great position he maneuvered his stupid ass into.
    "PM for a Day" seems to be the chief policy goal for both of the major parties.
    Elizabeth Warren is the neighbor in the horror movie who drives by the haunted house and is like “hey guys seems bad in there want to come with me?” and America is the family that’s like “nah it’s probably not that bad there were only chainsaw noises in the night that one time!”

  6. #19986
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Again, we are going to have to educate you about reality. Johnson being PM doesn't change the math in Parliament. Still no majority for no-deal, and still a guarantee that MPs will do everything they can to stop it happening. The deal that May negotiated is the only one on the table, and there isn't any support for that. Want to renegotiate that? Fine, lets start the clock again and in a couple of years time we might have another deal. By then more of the old rascists that voted for Brexit will have died, and the majority against it would have increased further.

    The longer this goes on, the greater the chance the whole thing gets called off. And regardless of which of the Tories win, you don't have the numbers to push through pretty much any form of Brexit, let alone a hard one.

    So go ahead and gloat. It just shows, as usual, how little you understand of what's happening.
    The math in parliament doesn't matter. What does is if the new PM asks for an extension of article 50 or not. Theresa did, I don't think Boris will.

  7. #19987
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    October 31st is the end date of the brexit timetable whatever parliament does. Only the PM, by writing to the EU and with their agreement, can alter that date. If that extension request letter never arrives at the EU by Oct 31st, what parliament says matters nowt. We are out.

    Do you really see Boris writing that begging letter as Theresa did? That would be a gift to the Brexit party...
    If it is passed into law (which would appear to the plan) that the government must seek an extension in order to avoid no deal then Johnson, or whoever, would be breaking the law if they did not do so. However where it becomes less clear is if an extension is requested but not granted.

  8. #19988
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The math in parliament doesn't matter. What does is if the new PM asks for an extension of article 50 or not. Theresa did, I don't think Boris will.
    Parliament can order the PM to ask for one. Like they did in April.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If it is passed into law (which would appear to the plan) that the government must seek an extension in order to avoid no deal then Johnson, or whoever, would be breaking the law if they did not do so. However where it becomes less clear is if an extension is requested but not granted.
    The EU doesn't want to be the bad guy in this. If the UK asks for an extension they will get it. In April people were saying that there would be lots of string attached to a second extension, and the UK essentially got it for nothing.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-06-11 at 07:32 PM.

  9. #19989
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If it is passed into law (which would appear to the plan) that the government must seek an extension in order to avoid no deal then Johnson, or whoever, would be breaking the law if they did not do so. However where it becomes less clear is if an extension is requested but not granted.
    The EU have bent over backwards in this whole process to allow it to be driven by the UK. They don't want us to be able to redirect any of the blame their way, and I don't blame them. So I suspect that an extension will be almost automatic.

    And I find it highly amusing that dribbles believes that Johnson, a man with an almost perfect track record of looking after number 1, would do something like ignoring Parliament by refusing to seek an extension. He won't risk pushing through a hard Brexit in a way that would place all of the blame squarely on his shoulders.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

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  10. #19990
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If it is passed into law (which would appear to the plan) that the government must seek an extension in order to avoid no deal then Johnson, or whoever, would be breaking the law if they did not do so. However where it becomes less clear is if an extension is requested but not granted.
    And presumably if Boris didn't seek an extension and write the letter after instruction by parliament, as PM the only person that can, he would be held in contempt. We'd still be, irreversibly, out.

    I wonder what the penalty for that, presumably contempt of parliament, would be? Wiki says :- The last time Parliament fined someone was in 1666, and the last time it imprisoned anyone was in 1880 (in the Clock Tower).

    Looks like he might get his wrists slapped, possibly... He won't write the letter that destroys him and the Conservative party.

  11. #19991
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And presumably if Boris didn't seek an extension and write the letter after instruction by parliament, as PM the only person that can, he would be held in contempt. We'd still be, irreversibly, out.
    Not totally irreversably

    I'm also not 100% sure that it is only the PM that can write the letter. Parliament empowers the PM, as head of government, to do so. Parliament could, in theory, empower somebody else to do it (the Cabinet Secretary and the Speaker of the House come to mind). Enabling Acts can enable anything.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-06-11 at 11:05 PM.

  12. #19992
    Heh Reuters has an article on Johnson's comments on the EU in the past:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...KCN1TD0N1?il=0
    tick tock to the next extension I guess. Poor Macron, he is so cute when he feigns anger
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  13. #19993
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And presumably if Boris didn't seek an extension and write the letter after instruction by parliament, as PM the only person that can, he would be held in contempt. We'd still be, irreversibly, out.

    I wonder what the penalty for that, presumably contempt of parliament, would be? Wiki says :- The last time Parliament fined someone was in 1666, and the last time it imprisoned anyone was in 1880 (in the Clock Tower).

    Looks like he might get his wrists slapped, possibly... He won't write the letter that destroys him and the Conservative party.
    Honestly I don't know whether that would be the case. My gut feeling is that the PM (regardless of their Brexit stance) would not ignore parliament and refuse to seek an extension when required to do so by law and I suspect that if they did it would bring down the government.

  14. #19994
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Honestly I don't know whether that would be the case. My gut feeling is that the PM (regardless of their Brexit stance) would not ignore parliament and refuse to seek an extension when required to do so by law and I suspect that if they did it would bring down the government.
    Or the conundrum leads to a general election where comres polling released today shows that Boris Johnson is the last great hope for remainers looking for a soft brexit.

    Brexit Party could win up to 252 MPs depending on next Tory Leader

    https://www.westmonster.com/brexit-p...-to-forecast1/

    Only Boris can slow down the Brexit party, anyone else leads to building a wall at Dover and making the EU pay. I'm not sure if I should wish that parliament does try to force Boris to ask for an extension and we get a General Election instead to allow the Brexit party to storm in. Or if it would be better to just leave on WTO terms by Boris refusing to send it. Either way what a sad position for remainers to be in, cheerleaders for Boris Johnson.

    One way of uniting the country I suppose. Go Boris!

  15. #19995
    Imagine relying on Boris Johnson to deliver something for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    The EU doesn't want to be the bad guy in this. If the UK asks for an extension they will get it. In April people were saying that there would be lots of string attached to a second extension, and the UK essentially got it for nothing.
    Strings were attached, they just don't get talked about much - one main one was "no re-opening of the withdrawal agreement" that we agreed to in order to get the extension but the Conservative party has obviously completely ignored since.

    Ideally the next extension (if they do grant one, at this point i'm leaning towards hoping they don't) should absolutely require either a GE or a second referendum, since nothing else is going to fix this issue at this point.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-06-12 at 01:04 PM.

  16. #19996
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Or the conundrum leads to a general election where comres polling released today shows that Boris Johnson is the last great hope for remainers looking for a soft brexit.

    Brexit Party could win up to 252 MPs depending on next Tory Leader

    https://www.westmonster.com/brexit-p...-to-forecast1/

    Only Boris can slow down the Brexit party, anyone else leads to building a wall at Dover and making the EU pay. I'm not sure if I should wish that parliament does try to force Boris to ask for an extension and we get a General Election instead to allow the Brexit party to storm in. Or if it would be better to just leave on WTO terms by Boris refusing to send it. Either way what a sad position for remainers to be in, cheerleaders for Boris Johnson.

    One way of uniting the country I suppose. Go Boris!
    Letting the electorate decide, either by a GE of referendum, is more likely than the PM ignoring the instructions of Parliament.

    The prediction that Johnson could lead a Con majority seems overly optimistic to me especially considering that at the time of the poll's release he had not even started his leadership campaign nor let anyone know what his policies may be. Although now he has launched his campaign I don't think anyone is really any wiser in that regard apart from he is apparently not aiming for no-deal.

  17. #19997
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Letting the electorate decide, either by a GE of referendum, is more likely than the PM ignoring the instructions of Parliament.

    The prediction that Johnson could lead a Con majority seems overly optimistic to me especially considering that at the time of the poll's release he had not even started his leadership campaign nor let anyone know what his policies may be. Although now he has launched his campaign I don't think anyone is really any wiser in that regard apart from he is apparently not aiming for no-deal.
    One of the reasons why an new election is unlikely is because the conservative know that they will get annihilated this time around so there is a lack of motivation.

    Ofc a new election would probably be the best solution if a party wins with a strong mandate (whatever the mandate is) which is also unlikely.

  18. #19998
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Imagine relying on Boris Johnson to deliver something for you
    He is pretty handy on a bicycle.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  19. #19999
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    He is pretty handy on a bicycle.
    Also pretty handy if you want an illegitimate baby or the address of a journalist (so you can send people round to beat them up), but there we are.
    #Conservativevalues

  20. #20000
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    One of the reasons why an new election is unlikely is because the conservative know that they will get annihilated this time around so there is a lack of motivation.

    Ofc a new election would probably be the best solution if a party wins with a strong mandate (whatever the mandate is) which is also unlikely.
    That isn't what latest polls say though.

    BOJO LANDSLIDE Boris Johnson would lead Tories to 140-seat majority and wipe out Farage’s Brexit Party, new poll says

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/927630...-poll-commons/

    The question is if the Tories are wise enough to make him PM.

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