[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[draykorinee]

@draykorinee. I'm not sure. My vote is completely meaningless anyway (Tory safe seat). I might vote Labour. Or I might draw a giant, ejaculating penis on the poll card.

Last election it was a fairly comfortable win for Tories here, my town also voted Brexit so I have no expectations of winning sadly.

[Demolitia]

I think if the UK does not leave, the Commission needs to come up with a really ironic commission and give it to the UK.

Well the UK is not getting any meaningful position in any institution as it is. Maybe they'll create a directorate exclusively for fisheries ...

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Commission of EU Appreciation?

High representative for zip-lining and high fives.

[mojojojo202]

I'm not sure you understand their position. The LD's will say literally anything to get elected.

They care no more about Brexit than Boris Johnson did when he was a remain supporter.

If they are in a position to do so, they will form a government with the Tories.

The evidence:

Swinson voted with the Tory whip more than Michael Gove did.

Her party contains almost as many Tory MP's as it does Liberal Democrats.

She's refused to rule out a coalition.

There will be a lot of outrage when the LD's do a deal with the Tories which will dissipate quickly, and then people like you and Kallisto will come round and tell everyone how the LD's saved us from a much worse Brexit. How they prevented the Tories from putting the small remainder of Polish immigrants in cages or something....

The Lib Dems WILL NOT WIN AN ELECTION. Absolutely no question.

Their position on revoking Article50 is cowardly, they know they can play that card and when push comes to shove, they won't have to do anything about it.

If they get a coalition, as they are probably hoping for, they will just abandon their headline policy... just like they did in 2010...

[Dezerte]

Minister for silly walks?

Minister for silly talks seems more apt.

[Muzjhath]

I think if the UK does not leave, the Commission needs to come up with a really ironic commission and give it to the UK.

Minister of non-mainland Areas

[Dizzeeyooo]

If they get a coalition, as they are probably hoping for, they will just abandon their headline policy... just like they did in 2010...

Who knew that coalition governments involve compromises between involved parties

[rogueMatthias]

The Lib Dems WILL NOT WIN AN ELECTION. Absolutely no question.

Their position on revoking Article50 is cowardly, they know they can play that card and when push comes to shove, they won't have to do anything about it.

I dunno, it depends how much the Brexit party splits up the conservative party vote and how much ground the Lib Dems can make on Labour. Because of the FPTP system, unless Brexit and Conservatives make a pact, ANYTHING's possible. Our system isn't designed for a multi-party election like this. it's not entirely impossible that LibDems could get more seats even if they only managed to get 25%-30% of the vote.

The difficulty then is that if Brexit+Tories combined are over 50% of the vote, and Lib Dems manage to get the most seats with 28% of the vote - How much of a constitutional crisis would it cause if they declare that as mandate to revoke article 50?

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Who knew that coalition governments involve compromises between involved parties

Well, I'm not sure getting cushy jobs in exchange for abandoning your policies is much of a compromise. I'm surprised anyone's even trusting them now after the student tuition fees fiasco.

[Skroe]

I think if the UK does not leave, the Commission needs to come up with a really ironic commission and give it to the UK.

Commission of Efficient and Timely Diplomacy.

or

Commission on Referendums

[Dhrizzle]

The Lib Dems are nailing their colours to the mast:

Lib Dems pledge to cancel Brexit if they win general election

I'm with Simon Hughes, though:

But former Lib Dem MP Simon Hughes had called on members to reject the policy, saying it would "take the focus away" from getting another referendum.
He said that as the first referendum was a decision made by the people, "it can only be the people who can reverse [it]".

I think Swinson has got this wrong.

Totally wrong, I think even most Remain supporters know it would have to be done by a second referendum. Mind you it's the Lib Dems, they could promise everyone the moon on a stick if they get elected and it wouldn't matter.

[mojojojo202]

Who knew that coalition governments involve compromises between involved parties

Abandoning a core principal then voting for the exact opposite isn't compromise. It is, at best, capitulation.

[Pann]

Abandoning a core principal then voting for the exact opposite isn't compromise. It is, at best, capitulation.

Regardless of their coalition or not there was never any chance of the Lib Dems passing their tuition fee policy through parliament.

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I mean from what I read there was immediate pushback from within the party that said exactly that, that they should pursue a referendum and gain a mandate for revoking through it.

The Lib Dems have no chance of forming a government and for the party that is going to finish 3rd or 3th vote for us and we'll have another vote is particularly weak reason for undecideds to pick them over Lab whereas revoking A50 sends a strong and clear message.

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Meanwhile Lab look to have their own little clear out...

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-16/...robert-peston/

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Hmm, anyone would think that BoJo is not all that popular

https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/st...83737797451776

[mojojojo202]

Regardless of their coalition or not there was never any chance of the Lib Dems passing their tuition fee policy through parliament.

That is sort of the point though.

There was little chance of tuition fee policy being implemented, they knew as much and they thought they wouldnt have to deal with the consequences. They gained a lot of votes on the back of that, from people who didnt see it as an obvious ploy ( I include myself here, I was suckered in by this policy in particular), then, when push comes to shove... well, they caved.

They are doing the same thing again... counting on support from single issue voters they know they aren't going to have to follow through with.

I'd urge people not to get played by them again because it's clear, despite all the insincere apologies, they haven't learnt from last time.

[Jessicka]

Who knew that coalition governments involve compromises between involved parties

Lib Dems made absolutely fuck all compromises when they went into coalition with the Tories last time. Unless you call ditching your entire manifesto and just rolling with everything the Tories say 'compromise'.

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That is sort of the point though.

There was little chance of tuition fee policy being implemented, they knew as much and they thought they wouldnt have to deal with the consequences. They gained a lot of votes on the back of that, from people who didnt see it as an obvious ploy ( I include myself here, I was suckered in by this policy in particular), then, when push comes to shove... well, they caved.

They are doing the same thing again... counting on support from single issue voters they know they aren't going to have to follow through with.

I'd urge people not to get played by them again because it's clear, despite all the insincere apologies, they haven't learnt from last time.

They're soft Tories anyway, they already said they won't go into coalition with Labour, but would with the Conservatives. It makes no sense, but that's where they stand.

[Pann]

That is sort of the point though.

There was little chance of tuition fee policy being implemented, they knew as much and they thought they wouldnt have to deal with the consequences. They gained a lot of votes on the back of that, from people who didnt see it as an obvious ploy ( I include myself here, I was suckered in by this policy in particular), then, when push comes to shove... well, they caved.

They are doing the same thing again... counting on support from single issue voters they know they aren't going to have to follow through with.

I'd urge people not to get played by them again because it's clear, despite all the insincere apologies, they haven't learnt from last time.

There was no, not little, chance of the tuition fee policy being implemented as there was no chance of the Lib Dems ever having a majority and there was certainly no chance that they would achieve one on the back of scrapping tuition fees.

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They're soft Tories anyway, they already said they won't go into coalition with Labour, but would with the Conservatives. It makes no sense, but that's where they stand.

That is completely untrue (why do you continually make things up?), Swinson has repeatedly said that the Lib Dems will not enter into a coalition with either the Cons or Labour.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49717388

[Jessicka]

There was no, not little, chance of the tuition fee policy being implemented as there was no chance of the Lib Dems ever having a majority and there was certainly no chance that they would achieve one on the back of scrapping tuition fees.

Wasn't just fees, it was their entire fucking manifesto. Even their campaign for Proportional Representation ended up a referendum for a watered down FPTP they didn't even fully support.

That is completely untrue (why do you continually make things up?), Swinson has repeatedly said that the Lib Dems will not enter into a coalition with either the Cons or Labour.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49717388

She says Corbyn or Boris. But look at the people she's taken who defected, look at her rhetoric and policies (outside of Brexit), it's stuff that would fly better with the blues than reds. Look who they picked last time. It's the One Nation Conservative vote she's chasing, not Labour.

[Pann]

Wasn't just fees, it was their entire fucking manifesto. Even their campaign for Proportional Representation ended up a referendum for a watered down FPTP they didn't even fully support.

They weren't in Government - they were the junior partners in a coalition - and as a result in no position to deliver their manifesto.

Ironically Lib Dem voters reacted to the taste of what PR would be like by not voting for them again.

She says Corbyn or Boris. But look at the people she's taken who defected, look at her rhetoric and policies (outside of Brexit), it's stuff that would fly better with the blues than reds. Look who they picked last time.

You claimed that the Lib Dems "...would [go into coalition] with the Conservatives" you have no evidence to support this assertion and quite frankly given the completely opposite stances both parties have when it comes to Brexit the suggestion that a Con/LD coalition would happen is laughable.

Stop making things up!

[Jessicka]

They weren't in Government - they were the junior partners in a coalition - and as a result in no position to deliver their manifesto.

Ironically Lib Dem voters reacted to the taste of what PR would be like by not voting for them again.

They could have used their influence to try to get something, they didn't even do that much; they managed to do the exact opposite with Uni fees and double down on raising them.

You claimed that the Lib Dems "...would [go into coalition] with the Conservatives" you have no evidence to support this assertion and quite frankly given the completely opposite stances both parties have when it comes to Brexit the suggestion that a Con/LD coalition would happen is laughable.

Stop making things up!

You know they would though. It's not like they didn't do the exact opposite over fees or PR, and abandon everything else. People should remember that and not vote for them, but we saw in the last by-elections that they have quite short memories.

[Kallisto]

They could have used their influence to try to get something, they didn't even do that much; they managed to do the exact opposite with Uni fees and double down on raising them.

They did do something. The basically delayed all this shit we've been going through since the 2015 election for 5 years. What did you expect them to do. Block everything the Tories wanted and cause Anarchy?

[Jessicka]

They did do something. The basically delayed all this shit we've been going through since the 2015 election for 5 years. What did you expect them to do. Block everything the Tories wanted and cause Anarchy?

I dunno, an earlier referendum would have probably not given us a Leave result.

[mojojojo202]

There was no, not little, chance of the tuition fee policy being implemented as there was no chance of the Lib Dems ever having a majority and there was certainly no chance that they would achieve one on the back of scrapping tuition fees.

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That is completely untrue (why do you continually make things up?), Swinson has repeatedly said that the Lib Dems will not enter into a coalition with either the Cons or Labour.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49717388

They campaigned for and won votes on the back of something they couldn't hope to deliver. Their Brexit policy is exactly the same and they know it. I'm not really sure why people seem to be falling for it.