[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pann]

I think almost every poll has it consistently the other way. YouGov has Remain overtaking Leave back in Aug 2017 and currently has 49% Remain to 40% Leave (so not counting undecided it's at 55%-45% now). There is a reason a lot of people want a People's Vote, there is every reason to believe it would turn things around.

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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ll-meet-brexit

Beyond the fact that the general population thinks Dribbles tick tock is going to get yet another tune up, it's interesting to see that while trust in Johnson is not eroding, BXP is rising. My understanding of FPTP is that BXP rising is only really hurting Tories without having a shot at giving them any seats.

I would be extremely wary of taking the recent leave/remain polls at face value. I think public opinion can shift very quickly and if there is a second referendum the people vs the establishment is going to be a very powerful message and I would not be at all surprised to see the remain lead severely eroded.

That will depend on whether the BXP decide to field candidates against the Tory party, if they decide to target Lab leave marginals whilst leaving Con seats uncontested it might be enough to secure a Tory majority.

[Pann]

You really think that after three years of being bombarded with Brexit news people still don't have a clear opinion on it?

I think lots of people have very clear and entrenched opinions but it will be, as was the case in 2016, the people who have not made their minds up that will decide the result and I think the we've already told them once that we want to take back control message is going to be compelling to many.

[dribbles]

I think almost every poll has it consistently the other way. YouGov has Remain overtaking Leave back in Aug 2017 and currently has 49% Remain to 40% Leave (so not counting undecided it's at 55%-45% now). There is a reason a lot of people want a People's Vote, there is every reason to believe it would turn things around.

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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ll-meet-brexit

Beyond the fact that the general population thinks Dribbles tick tock is going to get yet another tune up, it's interesting to see that while trust in Johnson is not eroding, BXP is rising. My understanding of FPTP is that BXP rising is only really hurting Tories without having a shot at giving them any seats.

Ah but from that yougov survey check out who is to blame if Brexit is not delivered by Oct 31st.

When asked the question is it Boris's fault?

78% of Brexit party supporters and 73% of Tories say no. In any election the pain will be felt by the at fault side and that'd be remainers colluding with the EU. People do have a clear opinion and they just want to get Brexit done.

[Monster Hunter]

I think almost every poll has it consistently the other way. YouGov has Remain overtaking Leave back in Aug 2017 and currently has 49% Remain to 40% Leave (so not counting undecided it's at 55%-45% now). There is a reason a lot of people want a People's Vote, there is every reason to believe it would turn things around.

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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ll-meet-brexit

Beyond the fact that the general population thinks Dribbles tick tock is going to get yet another tune up, it's interesting to see that while trust in Johnson is not eroding, BXP is rising. My understanding of FPTP is that BXP rising is only really hurting Tories without having a shot at giving them any seats.

The tories are slightly up and the BXP are slightly down by the last polls.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...p-1-oct-update

Jhonson has done an alright job of bringing back the tory brexiteers may lost, so the BXP support is likely currently made up of mostly leave refugees from Labour.

As things look, the cons have half way clawed back after the local/eu election apocalypse that saw Labour and the cons nose dive in all the polls, mostly from taking a harder stance on brexit with jhonson, but this is pushed up LibDem support as remain tory refugees have flocked to them, on the other side labour as stagnated since the collapse, rose slightly befor the conferences but has returned to a downward trajectory after likly due to them reaffirming there commitment to neutrality on brexit at the conference, this has boosted the Lib Dems now above them in the polls.

If you look at the poll graph you can actualy see that when the cons and labour look like or take hard stances on leave or remain, like was hopped by the vote in Labour in the conference on fully backing remain that failed or jhonson committing to the deadline this month, support for the brexit party and lib Dems drops, but when that fails or gets cast into doubt BXP and lib dem support rises as the main party's falls.

I think weather corbyn likes it or not, if we arn't out of the eu befor the next election, its going 5o entirly be fought on the brexit question, unless Labour takes a hard remain stance and corbyn starts making remain rhetoric then we're looking at a Labour wipe out in Parliament, the cons have shown there not afraid to take a hard stance to win back support from the BXP as opposed to labour who have seemed apathetic to there support bleeding away to the Lib Dems, it's begfers belief that there still holding there current position on brexit, current policy's and current leader with how the polls are looking across the country. Any other party and at any other time such results would be causing alarm within a party and forcing a change of direction.

[Monster Hunter]

You really think that after three years of being bombarded with Brexit news people still don't have a clear opinion on it?

I'd agree with pann, untill I see one side polling in the 60/70% range I wouldn't put money in a definite out come, I can only go on my own anecdotal evidence but from the local pubs, the community and what I see from my wider sports and social groups the topic is still very deeply split with a slight edge to leave just as it was during the referendum, I don't think in my constituency enough has been done to swing the 5000 voters leave won by here. But that's a hard task any way, this is a northern English constituency so under normal circumstances we haven't trusted anything from Westminster or politicians, the anti-establishment rhetoric directly plays into the history and situation of the North and it is very very enticing.

The North has always been oppressed in a way that has similarity to racism, even though we're the same race, the South has held the belife that the people in the north are some how inferior from the days England was formed under William the basterd to now. Northern Lords were lesser than southern ones, Northern buissness men are seen as lesser than southern ones, and the northern working class are uncouth louts and thugs but the southern ones are the salt of the earth. And this has lead to alot of institutional discrimination in everything from Northern regiments like the Accrington pals being used as cannon fodder in ww1 to people in the North taking up lessons to lose there native accents to get jobs in the south.

Unless a politician can break through that natural distaste that still exists for authority and Westminster then you won't change many minds up here, normally the Labour leader is the only one in a place to get through to people up here, but corbyn is a name I hear very little good about, weather truth or not the propeganda against him has been very very effective, he has been painted as a traitor very well.

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I think the inflection point on Johnson will be when he actually is forced to ask for an extension.

That will likly push the BXP support back through the roof like a few months ago, which is the real reason why jhonson wants to avoid asking for an extension over anything. Its a snowball the BXP are a single focus party, them being up makes brexit even more the talking point, that then drives more support for the BXP and Lib Dems and away fro the main 2 party's, this is how the local elections suddenly became about Brexit Backlash than local issues.

I have to hand it to farage, forming the BXP over trying to recapture UKiP from its far right infection was a very smart move, and keep the BXP singularly focused on just leaving the EU and staying off any domestic policy has ment that it has had open doors to leave voters from all party's. Where the libdems struggle with milking the last drops of remain out of labour and the tory's because of domestic policy disagreement the BXP dosnt have the issue, the down side is the BXP are more prone to wild swings depending on what stance the main party's take.
That and he killed UKIP off almost over night.

[Deianeira]

I've been all over Europe and I currently live really close to Greece and have close friends living in Greece. I've never been to a country that is even remotely close to hating the EU as much as the brits do. Greece least of all. That country lived on EU welfare for decades, there is no chance in hell they are ever voting to leave.

There's a lot of conservative parties in Europe. There are even a lot of pro-russian minded parties and people in eastern Europe, but even the most hardcore russian supporters acknowledge the importance of the EU. Even in Hungary their crazy ass PM was forced to publicly voice support for the EU because if he were to take a BoJo position, he's never getting reelected again. The hostility of the brits towards the EU simply doesn't exist in the rest of Europe.

And i can see why that is the case. We have LOADS of Poles and other east Europeans here in Sweden working for dirtcheap and i imagine if they would leave the EU they would not have the right to come over and work as much. So ofcourse would they want the country to be in EU beacuse they work here and make lots of money that they take home.

[Demolitia]

And i can see why that is the case. We have LOADS of Poles and other east Europeans here in Sweden working for dirtcheap and i imagine if they would leave the EU they would not have the right to come over and work as much. So ofcourse would they want the country to be in EU beacuse they work here and make lots of money that they take home.

Hungary has not nearly seen the emigration boost other east-European countries have. I really don't think that's a reason for Hungarians, or that emigrants represent a sizeable enough share of the population to seen as an election threat. Even in Poland.

[Acidbaron]

Hungary has not nearly seen the emigration boost other east-European countries have. I really don't think that's a reason for Hungarians, or that emigrants represent a sizeable enough share of the population to seen as an election threat. Even in Poland.

Even in Poland? I think you are very -wrong-, would need to dig deeper into numbers but i find you greatly underestimate how many people work here for several months to collect the pay that is often 4 times as much, mind you how they obtain it is by avoiding several taxes, legally mind you however.

East Europeans really do take a lot of money back home, i know this is to be true for Poles especially, the rest i have less of a feeling with as i don't know that many hungarians. There are even places in Poland named "little Belgium" and they are in pristine state with high quality accommodations for those who live there.

In addition to that also east EU nations get a lot from the EU in terms of financial support, in some cases even too much and to questionable causes. What i blame the EU for for not enough oversight and allowing corruption on local levels.

[Crispin]

So much for Dribbles "tick tock" lol. There won't be a divorce bill because it'll be paid in full before the UK leaves anyway, if they leave.

At this point the EU can just dismiss any deal, since the UK can't leave without a deal. Bow to your European masters Dribbles

[Slant]

I would be extremely wary of taking the recent leave/remain polls at face value. I think public opinion can shift very quickly and if there is a second referendum the people vs the establishment is going to be a very powerful message and I would not be at all surprised to see the remain lead severely eroded.

That will depend on whether the BXP decide to field candidates against the Tory party, if they decide to target Lab leave marginals whilst leaving Con seats uncontested it might be enough to secure a Tory majority.

The establishment wants to fuck the country. How much more anti-establishment can you be than to vote Remain?

[Demolitia]

Even in Poland? I think you are very -wrong-, would need to dig deeper into numbers but i find you greatly underestimate how many people work here for several months to collect the pay that is often 4 times as much, mind you how they obtain it is by avoiding several taxes, legally mind you however.

East Europeans really do take a lot of money back home, i know this is to be true for Poles especially, the rest i have less of a feeling with as i don't know that many hungarians. There are even places in Poland named "little Belgium" and they are in pristine state with high quality accommodations for those who live there.

In addition to that also east EU nations get a lot from the EU in terms of financial support, in some cases even too much and to questionable causes. What i blame the EU for for not enough oversight and allowing corruption on local levels.

The amount is substantial. I think 41 billion was sent back home in 2014. For a country with a GDP of 500 bns that's definitely something. I might be underestimating the numbers if we take into account seasonal workers, but I don't know if it would still be enough to make or break a country's feelings towards the EU.


Failure to apply sanctions is definitely one of the EUs weaknesses. But it is in great part a design issue. The EU doesn't have much power or mechanisms to call this sort of bullshit. That's definitely something that needs improvement. The main mechanism to punish a country that is cheating or doing undemocratic stuff requires a unanimous council decision. As Poland, Romania and Hungary will have each other's back in such cases, nothing happens.

That being said, and that's just my opinion, I think these are still fairly young democracies that will sort their shit out in time, and it's important to keep investing in them and helping them develop. Accepting that a few assholes will line up their pockets is maybe better than just punishing the country as a whole, as long as it keep moving in roughly the right direction.

[Jessicka]

The establishment wants to fuck the country. How much more anti-establishment can you be than to vote Remain?

Well we've been saying that for a while, but that millionaire wbanker Nazi, Farage, awkwardly drank in a pub he's now banned from so that makes him a 'man of the people' or some shit.

In other news, Rees-Mogg is peddling the Soros conspiracy to show his ‘anti-establishment’ credentials as well. Because there’s nothing like a bit of real anti-semitism for that.

[dribbles]

Well we've been saying that for a while, but that millionaire wbanker Nazi, Farage, awkwardly drank in a pub he's now banned from so that makes him a 'man of the people' or some shit.

In other news, Rees-Mogg is peddling the Soros conspiracy to show his ‘anti-establishment’ credentials as well. Because there’s nothing like a bit of real anti-semitism for that.

Have you got the wrong man/men? It's EU bought and paid for shill Jo Swinson who is under the spotlight when her husband turns out to be director at Transparency International who receive millions in funding from the EU and tens of thousands from Soros.

You really can't trust a word that comes out of a Fib Dems mouth. Perhaps she's learnt her lesson from the now multi millionaire Nick "Mr Facebook/Tuition fees" Clegg. Typical remainers lining their own pockets at the expense of everyone else.

Yet more revelations over Swinson’s husband EU cash links now involving George Soros

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/exclu...-george-soros/

I wonder if those at the top of the Fib Dems would still be so pro remain if they didn't have their mitts in the EU money trough.

[Kallisto]

Holy crap Dribbles you really love the far right conspiracy nut job news don't you. This, Express, Mail. If you dare say "But this is the centre reasonable area." Then you've either got no idea what the centre is or the UK is so far gone

[Jessicka]

Have you got the wrong man/men? It's EU bought and paid for shill Jo Swinson who is under the spotlight when her husband turns out to be director at Transparency International who receive millions in funding from the EU and tens of thousands from Soros.

You really can't trust a word that comes out of a Fib Dems mouth. Perhaps she's learnt her lesson from the now multi millionaire Nick "Mr Facebook/Tuition fees" Clegg. Typical remainers lining their own pockets at the expense of everyone else.

Yet more revelations over Swinson’s husband EU cash links now involving George Soros

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/exclu...-george-soros/

I wonder if those at the top of the Fib Dems would still be so pro remain if they didn't have their mitts in the EU money trough.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...box=1570195497

Are you really parroting this anti-Semitic conspiracy shit?

Gotta love this Fascists, "Corbyn did something vaguely anti-Semitic, look!" "And here, look at what the Jews are doing!"

[Jessicka]

Hahaha looks like that no deal break isnt going to happen, Boris won't go to jail for you he doesnt care about you Brexiteers

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit...eal-eu-summit/

Boris only cares about one thing, and that is Boris.

[Slant]

Hahaha looks like that no deal break isnt going to happen, Boris won't go to jail for you he doesnt care about you Brexiteers

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit...eal-eu-summit/

Uhhh... hate to poop the party so hard but... what would the UK get an extension for?

Even remainers tend to fall into the same old trap, thinking UK politics is the bubble that matters. It's not. It's really, really not. It's loud and noisy and messy and very entertaining, but if he asks for an extension in the current situation, the EU is very likely to reject it. You need to come up with something, this rodeo is just starting.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Unity News Network’s primary mission is to promote nationalism and support for Brexit. Story selection often favors the political right and uses strongly loaded words such as this: SHOCK REPORTS that Nigel Farage has been BANNED from meeting President TRUMP! and this Macron RAGES as he BLAMES British people for DESTROYING hopes of United States of Europe! When it comes to sourcing, they primarily use quotes and occasionally hyperlinks to media sources. Some of the media sources utilized are The Telegraph, Bloomberg News and local papers such as Devon Live.

In general, news almost always favors the right with many articles being anti-immigrant that focuses on their crimes, but not others. The primary theme of this website is Nationalism and British separation from the European Union with many stories that denigrate the left with loaded emotional wording such as this: Nicola Sturgeon now PLOTTING with Corbyn, Soubry, Cable & others to SABOTAGE Brexit!

A factual search reveals that Unity News Network has not failed a fact check by an IFCN fact checker.

Overall, we rate Unity News Network Right Biased based on story selection and editorial bias that strongly favors the right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the use of limited hyperlinked sourcing and the use of misleading, strongly loaded emotional headlines (sensationalized) that are far stronger than the evidence presented in stories.

What a delightful site - and look they have an infowars style shop selling 'english and proud' ww2 memorabilia, how cute

[Monster Hunter]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...KBN1WJ1JP?il=0

And here is my question. Does UK law in any way call for some censure against a government that specifically tries to obstruct the sovereign will of parliament?

None I know of.

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I mean he could also send a letter to each of the 27 emphatically asking that no extension is given.

He could also purposely start using the UKs veto to fuck things up for the EU or threaten to do so. The Ben law is nice but.... Its very rushed and not fully thought through, it leaves alot of holes, pritty Blair esq in a way.

[dribbles]

Is there a way he could ask for an extension but also make sure that there isn't going to be one?

Hello Viktor, how would you like a billion quid to veto this silly extension request I'm being forced to make?

Oh yes please, thank you very much.

Hungary vetoes...

This would also count as breaking the law, and would mean Hungary have Johnson's balls in a vice for the remainder of his political life - so good luck with that.

You really think it would be done through official channels and not some murky middle man? No one would ever be the wiser it had happened.