[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Kallisto]

Looks like everyone lost today, even Nessy.

We got lucky. SNP were 1-2 short of 50

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You are mischaracterising Johnson here. Unlike the deranged behaviour of Trump, Johnson is just playing the moron most of the time. He is as despicable as Trump and he knows it makes use of that.

As for what will happen, well I guess the whole Brexit stuff will finally reach it's conclusion. NI will be buggered the most probably.

Northern Ireland for first time now has more nationalist than unionist MPs.

9 nationalist, 8 unionist and 1 alliance who do not take a side.

[PC2]

Uhm, is there even one topic you actually have any knowledge about?

Talk about ideas or make a point. Don't worry about me as a person.

I mean, even you must have heard of gerrymandering.

Gerrymandering doesn't change the fact that politics isn't about demographics, it's about policy and how effective it is. The datum doesn't care about demographics.

[draykorinee]

He has no excuses now. Brexit will happen, and he can't argue it isn't going to be exactly the way it's supposed to be. Then, when it turns out to be a giant clusterfuck (and it will) he and the rest of the Brexit morons can own the fact that they decided to fix a hangnail by lopping a leg off.

It won't regenerate the economy. It won't bring affluence back to those northern areas that vote Tory. Instead they will lose EU money and their new Tory MP and the party they represent will go back to ignoring them. Their rights will be chipped away at; more zero hour contracts, worse benefits. Working longer for less and with a diminishing safety net for when things go wrong.

As someone said somewhere else on the internet; at least we will know the answer to the question "what happens when turkeys vote for Christmas?"

I have no sympathy for them. They've taken their steer from papers owned by billionaires and a BBC that is basically the Tory party propaganda arm. They've fallen for a con from a party led by a man that is incapable of telling the truth if his life depended on it. They even had a live example of what would happen from across the pond and decided to ignore it. Fuck the lot of them, I'm not wasting emotions on people that are that stupid. When the impact of their decision starts to be felt, I'll fucking laugh at them. Because they will deserve everything they get.

Maybe after another 5 years of the ongoing abusive relationship with the Tories they will come to their senses. But I doubt it.

Yup.

I can't even articulate my thought processes right now.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Northern Ireland for first time now has more nationalist than unionist MPs.

9 nationalist, 8 unionist and 1 alliance who do not take a side.

I meant more in regards to the border conflict, I haven't seen any solution yet that seems to be suitable in practice.

Edit: And I don't see political offices being the deciding factor when it comes to igniting that old conflict again. You can blow up cars without these figure heads.

[Elegiac]

Except demographics don't matter in reality, how effective a policy idea is what matters. All the demographic support in the world can't make bad policies create good data.

Policy is not the sole determinant of voting patterns; moreover, some conservative policies alienate certain demographics by their nature or design.

You have no idea what you're talking about here.

[Kallisto]

I meant more in regards to the border conflict, I haven't seen any solution yet that seems to be suitable in practice.

Edit: And I don't see political offices being the deciding factor when it comes to igniting that old conflict again. You can blow up cars without these figure heads.

Oh I didn't mean anything in particular about it. You mentioned Northern Ireland and I felt it was just a nice fact to bring up

[PC2]

Policy is not the sole determinant of voting patterns; moreover, some conservative policies alienate certain demographics by their nature or design.

You have no idea what you're talking about here.

Actually it is over the mid/long run, policy as it relates to data feedback. Of course over the short run it's always possible to make mistakes and engage in identity politics.

[Crispin]

Well I guess the risk/chance of a hard brexit is back on the table.

[Elegiac]

Actually it is over the mid/long run, policy as it relates to data feedback. Of course over the short run it's always possible to make mistakes.

"As it relates to data feedback" is a nonsense qualifier. Voting solely based on policy is a rational standpoint and most voters are not perfectly rational; that's a fact.

It's also a nonsense argument to begin with because, as said, some conservative policies alienate certain demographics by nature and/or design.

[Kallisto]

Well I guess the risk/chance of a hard brexit is back on the table.

Certain at end of 2020. No trade deal is done in a year.

[Mayhem]

Talk about ideas or make a point. Don't worry about me as a person.



Gerrymandering doesn't change the fact that politics isn't about demographics, it's about policy and how effective it is. The datum doesn't care about demographics.

This is fundamentally wrong in the real world. I mean, going purely by definitions you could somewhat make a point, but you'd need to ignore all of human history.

[PC2]

This is fundamentally wrong in the real world. I mean, going purely by definitions you could somewhat make a point, but you'd need to ignore all of human history.

We should learn from history but we actually should ignore history when it comes to the future. Since it's fallacious to project historical events and make a prediction based on that.

[Elegiac]

We should learn from history but we actually should ignore history when it comes to the future.

This is a contradiction.

Do you have an actual point that isn't a platitude?

[Mayhem]

We should learn from history but we actually should ignore history when it comes to the future. Since it's fallacious to project historical events and make a prediction based on that.

I think your code borked.

[PC2]

I think your code borked.

Nah, if you imply that the future is destined to be like the past I point it out as a fallacy.

[Muzjhath]

They forget, he is one of those extreme voices.

He isn't. He's held that position for purely selfish and personal gains. He has no real positions other than "I want to be known as a great PM of history". he's a clown thinking he's Churchill reborn.
So he might very well swing around and drop a lot of the extreme brexit positions. Or he might dig down even further.

[Crispin]

Certain at end of 2020. No trade deal is done in a year.

Agreed, heck it might even come far sooner. The current deal is a compromise, there are hard brexiteers within the tories. It's not unthinkable that they'll try to renegotiate, and if (when) the EU refuses to, they can roll with the hard brexit.

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We should learn from history but we actually should ignore history when it comes to the future. Since it's fallacious to project historical events and make a prediction based on that.

Are you serious? genuine question.

Example: "Hey let's try out fascism, wonder how that'll turn out this time around"

[Mayhem]

Nah, if you imply that the future is destined to be like the past I point it out as a fallacy.

Dude, please, start reading, when did I imply that?

[Gorsameth]

Northern Ireland for first time now has more nationalist than unionist MPs.

9 nationalist, 8 unionist and 1 alliance who do not take a side.

Not really a surprise considering Boris's deal effectively places NI outside the Union.

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The bigger the majority Boris gets, the less he is dependent on the ERG. Expect to see Brexit betrayed in any number of ways in the next year. What do they care, they have a majority now anyway.

Boris's backers are betting against the UK's economy, they want it to crash so they can make shitloads of money off of it and then even more money by exploiting the dismantling of worker rights and social security.

All his actions point towards wanting the most damaging Brexit possible.

[Stormdash]

Let me guess... best three out of five or democracy has been destroyed?