View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #23901
    This is not altogether unexpected;

    'This is big. From a Government source. It shows that Boris Johnson will not abandon his culture war to secure Brexit, deal or no deal, on 31 October, despite (or because of) the Supreme Court humiliation. Some in Johnson's cabinet will be uneasy. "Judges are making our case...

    for us. Boris is trying to get Brexit done by 31 October, which most people agree with, and he faces the rich, powerful Remain world determined to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history. The Supreme Court has said themselves their judgment...

    is about giving Parliament more time for its fight against the government over Brexit so they can hardly be surprised when millions draw the inevitable inference..." This is all going to get even messier before we're through it.'


    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1176499054198624256

    ...absolutely appalling!

  2. #23902
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    And if there reduced to 4 days they will be breaking there backs harder for one day's less pay.
    Dude, the idea is that you get the same pay for 4 days as you got for 5. That's the whole trick to it. If it's just one day less work and pay, you can do that right now. There's nothing new about it, many people already do it to have more time with the family.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    We don't want more automation and AI, and if they had that then they would do that at AI costs less than employees anyway.

    We want more work, not less.
    ...said no one in the employee force of any company ever. The key is more work for more money. Less work for the same money is pretty fucking awesome and everyone working in an office daydreams about that idea...
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  3. #23903
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    26,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    Huge rebuke to BoJo. Seems likely his days are numbered now.
    The sources I've read suggest multiple parties are calling for him to resign. Is there any reason to believe he would?

  4. #23904
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    There isn't a deal. We have had 3 years of back and forth and it's clear there is no deal that could be done that would satisfy enough of parliament to get passed, The choice is leave or remain, corbyn is a brexiteer as much was made clear in the speeches he gave against the EU, that why he fucked off on holiday during the first ref and that's why he's forcing Labour to take a wait and see stance on brexit now, and that's why he won't commit to campaigning for remaining in the EU.

    A vote for Labour is a vote for a no deal, just later.

    If you are serious about staying in the EU there is only 2 party's to pick from l, green or libdem, and that's clear to every one, that's why the lib dem and green swept the local elections.

    If you vote libdem then they can win, or worst case form a coalition that holds Labour to a pro remain, pro 2nd referendum stance that corbyn has to abide by.

    And not only that but outside of brexit this is the only chance we are going to have for another 100 years to break the 2 party strangle hold and get rid of first past the post voting, a long standing policy of the minor partys, that will Finaly see a parliament that actualy represents the people who's frustration at a lack of voice lays directly at the heart of what caused brexit in the first place.
    Problem is though pragmatism means you might have to only vote for Labour if you want to stop the conservatives or Brexit party. Any vote for LD or Green vote is simply one less vote a Tory needs to get the win. FPTP in a nutshell. Voting with your concious is suicidal.

    Take it like this I dislike Corbyn. I despise the conservatives and like Greens and LD... But voting for the latter 2 means Bernard Jenking ERG far right insane psychopath nutjob gets an easier time since it's between Conservatives and Labour. Meaning that to stop the conservatives in all their insanity (not just Brexit but all their far right crap) I have to put my general election X next to the labour candidate and hope in other areas LD and Greens pick up votes in areas they are winning areas they have a chance in.

  5. #23905
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    That has nothing to do with Brexit but where do you think the money will come from for businesses to pay their staff the same amount for less hours?
    The idea is that while superfluously the company is interested in you working X hours for Y amount of money, the core interest of the company is not actually how many hours you sit there. It's just that for the company assuming you get a certain amount of work done per hour, this is the fairest and most transparent metric by which to measure and pay you for the "work done".

    The real interest for the company is paying you for X amount of work. And studies have tried to get away from looking merely at the hours and instead of looking at how much work you actually accomplish. They found that people working 4 days a week for the same day know they have to earn the fifth day off. Suddenly they stop chit chatting with each other and generally wasting a lot of time, they get the same work done in one day less. And because they have a 3 day weekend, they are super motivated to come to work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So can Johnson claim a single win as PM yet? Seems like almost (?) all his votes failed, he's now lost in the Supreme Court...can he claim any kind of victory/success so far?

    Or is he really just the bumbling idiot he's always "pretended" to be?
    He very much seems to be. Turns out we still keep overestimating British politicians.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  6. #23906
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Brexitia
    Posts
    2,791
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    The sources I've read suggest multiple parties are calling for him to resign. Is there any reason to believe he would?
    No chance. If anything he is stronger amongst the British people today than yesterday and he knows it.

    It is the supremely remain biased court that has made the law an ass to Boris's benefit.

    All we need now is a General Election to let the people speak.
    Brexiteers are the new remainers. To remain outside of the EU.

  7. #23907
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dribbles View Post
    No chance. If anything he is stronger amongst the British people today than yesterday and he knows it.

    It is the supremely remain biased court that has made the law an ass to Boris's benefit.

    All we need now is a General Election to let the people speak.
    So you're ok with 30% getting 55% of parliament? If you want will of the people push for a general election under full PR. Not something some fucking piece of shit can claim "I got the people behind me look." while getting nearly 7/10s of the country telling him to fuck off.

  8. #23908
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Dude, the idea is that you get the same pay for 4 days as you got for 5. That's the whole trick to it. If it's just one day less work and pay, you can do that right now. There's nothing new about it, many people already do it to have more time with the family.

    - - - Updated - - -



    ...said no one in the employee force of any company ever. The key is more work for more money. Less work for the same money is pretty fucking awesome and everyone working in an office daydreams about that idea...
    It's not and never going to be less work for more money. Here's some advice my dad td me when it comes to politics, if something sounds to good to be true then its either a lie or it won't work.

    I mean use your head on this, what company in the world is going to pay the same as they do now for a day less? And on top of that we are primeraly a service based economy our primary export is services, who the fucks going to pay our company's for 5 days only get 4?

    Also what company in the world will accept deadline delays because the goverment mandates we lose a working day a week.

    Its fucking hameful and suicidal and labour hasn't outlined any way they will ensure that us workers will keep getting the same pay for that one day less. Or outlined how our company's will remain competitive, or outlined how our SME's will be safe guarded.

    It's an absolute fantasy policy that just like platos sweet shop candidate sounds nice but will leave us sick.

  9. #23909
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The idea is that while superfluously the company is interested in you working X hours for Y amount of money, the core interest of the company is not actually how many hours you sit there. It's just that for the company assuming you get a certain amount of work done per hour, this is the fairest and most transparent metric by which to measure and pay you for the "work done".

    The real interest for the company is paying you for X amount of work. And studies have tried to get away from looking merely at the hours and instead of looking at how much work you actually accomplish. They found that people working 4 days a week for the same day know they have to earn the fifth day off. Suddenly they stop chit chatting with each other and generally wasting a lot of time, they get the same work done in one day less. And because they have a 3 day weekend, they are super motivated to come to work.
    Yup. I am quite confident that a 4day week can work for several sectors. But it cannot be the standard because a significant part of the labour force is either not capped and can continue producing in as much time as you give them (e.g. industrial work, construction) OR labour is required to offer a presence whether it is productive or not (e.g. retail and hospitality, medical care). Which is why I call such a policy classist; it is designed for white collar labour, completely ignoring the needs of the working class labour market.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  10. #23910
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    19,290
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    This is not altogether unexpected;

    'This is big. From a Government source. It shows that Boris Johnson will not abandon his culture war to secure Brexit, deal or no deal, on 31 October, despite (or because of) the Supreme Court humiliation. Some in Johnson's cabinet will be uneasy. "Judges are making our case...

    for us. Boris is trying to get Brexit done by 31 October, which most people agree with, and he faces the rich, powerful Remain world determined to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history. The Supreme Court has said themselves their judgment...

    is about giving Parliament more time for its fight against the government over Brexit so they can hardly be surprised when millions draw the inevitable inference..." This is all going to get even messier before we're through it.'


    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1176499054198624256

    ...absolutely appalling!
    Yes. Appalling propaganda spread as fact under a guise of ‘this unnamed guy said this’.

    It’s a gross misrepresentation of what happened.

  11. #23911
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Problem is though pragmatism means you might have to only vote for Labour if you want to stop the conservatives or Brexit party. Any vote for LD or Green vote is simply one less vote a Tory needs to get the win. FPTP in a nutshell. Voting with your concious is suicidal.

    Take it like this I dislike Corbyn. I despise the conservatives and like Greens and LD... But voting for the latter 2 means Bernard Jenking ERG far right insane psychopath nutjob gets an easier time since it's between Conservatives and Labour. Meaning that to stop the conservatives in all their insanity (not just Brexit but all their far right crap) I have to put my general election X next to the labour candidate and hope in other areas LD and Greens pick up votes in areas they are winning areas they have a chance in.
    This is the once in a 100 years point. In 90% of elections ou would be right but we have a golden opportunity in the next one with both Labour and the libdems the weakest they have ever been together in the polls. This is a similar position to the time when the whigs were toppled.

    The cons are bleeding votes to the lib dems and brexit and Labour are bleeding votes the lib dems and green. The common point is the libdems, this will put them in the best place to Finaly throw out the first past the post system and at least get us a 2nd ref.

    This is the best shot we will get to break the corrupt shit that is the Labour and tory party.

  12. #23912
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Brexitia
    Posts
    2,791
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    So you're ok with 30% getting 55% of parliament? If you want will of the people push for a general election under full PR. Not something some fucking piece of shit can claim "I got the people behind me look." while getting nearly 7/10s of the country telling him to fuck off.
    I'm OK with Boris attempting to enact the will of the people. Where is there any mandate for anti democratic remainers trying to stop him?
    Brexiteers are the new remainers. To remain outside of the EU.

  13. #23913
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    It's not and never going to be less work for more money. Here's some advice my dad td me when it comes to politics, if something sounds to good to be true then its either a lie or it won't work.

    I mean use your head on this, what company in the world is going to pay the same as they do now for a day less? And on top of that we are primeraly a service based economy our primary export is services, who the fucks going to pay our company's for 5 days only get 4?

    Also what company in the world will accept deadline delays because the goverment mandates we lose a working day a week.

    Its fucking hameful and suicidal and labour hasn't outlined any way they will ensure that us workers will keep getting the same pay for that one day less. Or outlined how our company's will remain competitive, or outlined how our SME's will be safe guarded.

    It's an absolute fantasy policy that just like platos sweet shop candidate sounds nice but will leave us sick.
    There are companies out there doing it already, mate. They report increased productivity and better company performance. It's a wild idea and it doesn't work for everyone. But there are companies that have implemented it and it works for them. It's not a stupid idea. One company in NZ, for example, is a service oriented provider and they simply informed their customers that they wouldn't be available on Fridays. Customers surprisingly understood and adapted to the reduced schedule. It's not a hoax.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Yup. I am quite confident that a 4day week can work for several sectors. But it cannot be the standard because a significant part of the labour force is either not capped and can continue producing in as much time as you give them (e.g. industrial work, construction) OR labour is required to offer a presence whether it is productive or not (e.g. retail and hospitality, medical care). Which is why I call such a policy classist; it is designed for white collar labour, completely ignoring the needs of the working class labour market.
    It certainly can't be the standard right now. But only 100 years ago a 6 work day week was considered normal. Saturday was a regular working day and a regular schoolday for children. Some states in Germany got rid of the Saturday schoolday only in the past 20 years. Is it plausible to implement this as a general policy for the entire nation?

    Probably not. But it is a curious concept and very interesting to hear reports that people made it work for their companies with good success. Just something to keep in the back of your head, how much we work is not necessarily a law of nature.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  14. #23914
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    There are companies out there doing it already, mate. They report increased productivity and better company performance. It's a wild idea and it doesn't work for everyone. But there are companies that have implemented it and it works for them. It's not a stupid idea. One company in NZ, for example, is a service oriented provider and they simply informed their customers that they wouldn't be available on Fridays. Customers surprisingly understood and adapted to the reduced schedule. It's not a hoax.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It certainly can't be the standard right now. But only 100 years ago a 6 work day week was considered normal. Saturday was a regular working day and a regular schoolday for children. Some states in Germany got rid of the Saturday schoolday only in the past 20 years. Is it plausible to implement this as a general policy for the entire nation?

    Probably not. But it is a curious concept and very interesting to hear reports that people made it work for their companies with good success. Just something to keep in the back of your head, how much we work is not necessarily a law of nature.
    Yea sure may be Morgan and Stanley. But it ain't the local spar shop, or b&m bargines, it ain't the little family owned bakers down the road, it isn't the local animal feed factory down the road from me and it ain't the little Software consultancy I work for.

    This is the problem when you let the upper middle class infect the left wing, they pollute it with fairytale fantasy based in there privileged littel urbanite worlds that work perfectly for jhon the investment banker in London. But for those on the ground floor, there the ones that take the shit when it all falls down, good old jhon can easily fuck off to a new country when his pie in the sky ideas come crashing down.
    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2019-09-24 at 05:29 PM.

  15. #23915
    You lack either the will or the capacity to think of alternative solutions.
    Doesn't mean they don't or won't exist.
    The current situation is despicable. And the fact that it may have been even worse not so long ago is no argument.

  16. #23916

  17. #23917
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Looks like the Cons have found their fallguy!

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/sta...255710721?s=20
    Why doesn't the redacting line up? >.>

  18. #23918
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Belgium, Flanders
    Posts
    17,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Yea sure may be Morgan and Stanley. But it ain't the local spar shop, or b&m bargines, it ain't the little family owned bakers down the road, it isn't the local animal feed factory down the road from me and it ain't the little Software consultancy I work for.

    This is the problem when you let the upper middle class infect the left wing, they pollute it with fairytale fantasy based in there privileged littel urbanite worlds that work perfectly for jhon the investment banker in London. But for those on the ground floor, there the ones that take the shit when it all falls down, good old jhon can easily fuck off to a new country when his pie in the sky ideas come crashing down.
    Both can coexist, if the government intervenes. Globalism only became a bad thing on a local level because we -let- it happen. And this is where this competition in work hours among other things come from.

    The reason why small companies and small stores are hurting has far more elements to it. The reality however is we all care about those things till it effects us. A government can simply say that package delivery on Saturday and Sunday is forbidden and those smaller stores become more attractive again, but would you approve of something like that?

    Add extra taxes and stricter hours to larger shop chains, this would give them a boost also but that means that outside of regular work hours you would pay more, would you vote for something like that?

    Everyone cares, till it effects them negatively in the slightest and people than believe politics or science without any personal sacrifice should fix it otherwise it is simply a matter of grit or science isn't there yet, childish world view.

  19. #23919
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Looks like the Cons have found their fallguy!

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/sta...255710721?s=20
    I like how easily Brexiteers go "The Supreme Court disagrees with us, so it should be abolished"
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #23920
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Both can coexist, if the government intervenes. Globalism only became a bad thing on a local level because we -let- it happen. And this is where this competition in work hours among other things come from.

    The reason why small companies and small stores are hurting has far more elements to it. The reality however is we all care about those things till it effects us. A government can simply say that package delivery on Saturday and Sunday is forbidden and those smaller stores become more attractive again, but would you approve of something like that?

    Add extra taxes and stricter hours to larger shop chains, this would give them a boost also but that means that outside of regular work hours you would pay more, would you vote for something like that?

    Everyone cares, till it effects them negatively in the slightest and people than believe politics or science without any personal sacrifice should fix it otherwise it is simply a matter of grit or science isn't there yet, childish world view.
    Problem is it always seems to be the working class paying for all of this.

    No one else is dipping there hands in there pockets to pay for the cost to SME's a 4 day working week would entail, the littel urbanites that came up with this crack pot idea won't be giving up there weekend delivery's or wanting to pay the extra taxes.

    You know exactly what will happen all those fair weather socialists infecting labour will as if by magic suddenly over night become fucking libertarians as soon as it comes time to pay the piper.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •