View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #25301
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Not at all, this compromise by brexiteers for the remainers messy deal is off the table after a Tory landslide.

    A general election will bring a cleaner brexit more quickly than the deal on offer now.

    Let's see which way the Corbyn hen clucks later on today, fingers X he lays that golden egg gift to brexiteers like me and we get that GE immediately. I wouldn't bet he has the backbone to do it though...
    How can Boris possibly campaign a GE on anything other than his deal? If he gives it up, he admits Parliament was right to ditch it. That doesn’t fit his people vs Parliament narrative.

  2. #25302
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    How can Boris possibly campaign a GE on anything other than his deal? If he gives it up, he admits Parliament was right to ditch it. That doesn’t fit his people vs Parliament narrative.
    Boris can just ignore his own deal and push through a hard Brexit if he has enough votes after a new GE.

    Or he goes for the 'I compromised on this deal to please Labour and they said no so if I get a majority I will get an even better deal!' And while the likes of dribbles will eat that up, the rest of the country probably won't.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #25303
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    How can Boris possibly campaign a GE on anything other than his deal? If he gives it up, he admits Parliament was right to ditch it. That doesn’t fit his people vs Parliament narrative.
    When was truth part of Boris Windhairs stick?

  4. #25304
    Is this what it has come to?

    'Getting seriously worried that HMG will pull Bill if Programme Motion is defeated. Surely best for all of us who regard this deal as the least of the evils to vote for the Programme Motion, whatever we really think of it.'

    https://twitter.com/oletwinofficial/...59454118514690

    Don't worry that the bill might be shit - vote for it anyway!

  5. #25305
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    my bad sorry, the 500 pages were including the protocols and signatures and useless blabla, so you can trim it down to 200 or so, but it's still a chunky document that covers much more than you usually see in other constitutions.
    https://europa.eu/european-union/sit..._europe_en.pdf

    It was ambitious and necessary, which is why they passed it as a Treaty when France and the Netherlands rejected it, but you can't really expect people to read something like that and cast an informed vote.
    Well, yes, it is 200 pages. But I'd argue that in today's times, with modern constitutions, it's not that uncommon. We know a lot more about how to structure... let's call it country-like entities. As I said before, you don't get away with slapping a constitution on one page and call it a day. Too many loopholes.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  6. #25306
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well, yes, it is 200 pages. But I'd argue that in today's times, with modern constitutions, it's not that uncommon. We know a lot more about how to structure... let's call it country-like entities. As I said before, you don't get away with slapping a constitution on one page and call it a day. Too many loopholes.
    It makes sense that it should be longer than a regular one. I question however the wisdom of having 40 pages laying out internal policies and then calling it a constitution.

    Anyway, that's a bit of pointless bickering. It came into force anyway under another name, and that's good. This was just another example of "don't ask the people stuff they won't read and digest themselves because somebody will weaponize it" just like a Brexit referendum.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Is this what it has come to?

    'Getting seriously worried that HMG will pull Bill if Programme Motion is defeated. Surely best for all of us who regard this deal as the least of the evils to vote for the Programme Motion, whatever we really think of it.'

    https://twitter.com/oletwinofficial/...59454118514690

    Don't worry that the bill might be shit - vote for it anyway!
    Looks like another day in the Commons from that side of the pond XD

  7. #25307
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    It makes sense that it should be longer than a regular one. I question however the wisdom of having 40 pages laying out internal policies and then calling it a constitution.

    Anyway, that's a bit of pointless bickering. It came into force anyway under another name, and that's good. This was just another example of "don't ask the people stuff they won't read and digest themselves because somebody will weaponize it" just like a Brexit referendum.
    It's the technocratic conundrum.

    Society and systems (in all domains) are becoming more complex, harder to understand for laymen, and thus easier to be explained and portrayed as dysfunctional by populists.

    The only thing holding back human progress right now is the median human education.

  8. #25308
    Brexit bill clears its first hurdle as MPs back the deal by 329 to 299 - but key timetable vote is yet to come

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ments-50136270

  9. #25309
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    It's the technocratic conundrum.

    Society and systems (in all domains) are becoming more complex, harder to understand for laymen, and thus easier to be explained and portrayed as dysfunctional by populists.

    The only thing holding back human progress right now is the median human education.
    This is so important to realize.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  10. #25310
    Damn MPs should have called his bluff and voted against it. Anything short of keeping full free movement and in the 4 freedoms need to be rejected out of principle.

  11. #25311
    The timetable bill has been rejected! 322-308

  12. #25312
    I didn't expect the bill itself to make it, but the timetable failed.
    So now the UK waits for the EU to decide to give a small extension?

    well congratulations to the UK parliament to decide on something for the first time.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  13. #25313
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Johnson gets his first division victory before going back to the standard practice of losing.


    Sports and Fitness mod, Brit with weird sleeping hours.
    Has good taste in ale, bad taste in D&D choices.

  14. #25314
    I would be so much more happier if you lot had gone already. No matter the problems it might bring, just END IT AND FUCKING GO.

    Then it would be just YOUR shitshow and OUR shitshow we need to think about.
    "It's just like I always said! You can do battle with strength, you can do battle with wits, but no weapon can beat a great pair of tits!"

  15. #25315
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I didn't expect the bill itself to make it, but the timetable failed.
    So now the UK waits for the EU to decide to give a small extension?

    well congratulations to the UK parliament to decide on something for the first time.
    I guess that warrants a slowclap? Good job UK!

  16. #25316
    Quote Originally Posted by tumppu View Post
    I would be so much more happier if you lot had gone already. No matter the problems it might bring, just END IT AND FUCKING GO.

    Then it would be just YOUR shitshow and OUR shitshow we need to think about.
    We would first have to deal with the aftermath of an uncontrolled no deal shitshow, which would be the mother of all shitshows. Clearly nobody wants that so we are riding the lesser shitshow instead.

  17. #25317
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumppu View Post
    I would be so much more happier if you lot had gone already. No matter the problems it might bring, just END IT AND FUCKING GO.

    Then it would be just YOUR shitshow and OUR shitshow we need to think about.
    How though? That's the bit no one can agree on.


    Sports and Fitness mod, Brit with weird sleeping hours.
    Has good taste in ale, bad taste in D&D choices.

  18. #25318
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Only a three week extension?

    You’re all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/s...691009/photo/1

    Ah well Boris can take his bill off pause in 2 weeks time and parliament gets even less time to amend it. Result.

  19. #25319
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Only a three week extension?

    You’re all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/s...691009/photo/1

    Ah well Boris can take his bill off pause in 2 weeks time and parliament gets even less time to amend it. Result.
    It's not up to nigel or guy, and BoJo's request is until january.

  20. #25320
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Only a three week extension?

    You’re all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/s...691009/photo/1

    Ah well Boris can take his bill off pause in 2 weeks time and parliament gets even less time to amend it. Result.
    Donald Tusk seems to be up for accepting the UK's request for an extension, presumably this is until Jan 31st as set out BJ's non-signed letter

    'Following PM @BorisJohnson’s decision to pause the process of ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement, and in order to avoid a no-deal #Brexit, I will recommend the EU27 accept the UK request for an extension. For this I will propose a written procedure.'

    https://twitter.com/eucopresident/st...37952313004032


    ...and I think that tweet from Verhofstadt was supposed to be a joke..

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