View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #25981
    Pandaren Monk Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Really? Passing off 6 refurbishments as 40 new hospitals? The number of current Nurse vacancies as new jobs? Announcing new Police recruitment that doesn’t even cover the number sacked off already? Is better?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    That’s before hand waving the tens of thousands dead to austerity.
    We have not had austerity. Austerity is when, as in the Great Depression, all civil servants took an immediate 10% pay cut. It is not when the rate of growth in government spending decreases, but still remains on an upward trajectory.

    I don't think you quite realise how much of a supporter of small government I am...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Are you one of those idiots who justify this guy and his racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, appeal to antisemites, and whatever other bigotry he’s got going on
    IDGAF what magic words you try to attack him with. I don't entirely trust BoJo - he's too much of a political creature, and I'd rather someone more principled and nationalistic - but you work with what you've got, and unfortunately we don't have Churchill, Thatcher, or someone of that calibre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    because “Labour antisemitism which is mostly just opposition to Israeli occupations and apartheid is bad”?
    Labour's antisemitism scandal is, from what I can tell:

    1. A bit of old Labour's "bash the rich" stuff, and Jews are statistically over-represented amongst the wealthy, so lazy people conflate the two.
    2. Appeals to Mohammedan voters in Labour seats.
    3. Bashing Israel because of the Palestinians (whether justified or not).
    4. Cooked up by the establishment and/or media to tar & feather him.
    5. Corbyn et al not signing up to a very particular, and I'd argue stupid, definition of anti-semitism.

    How much blame for the Labour anti-semitism stuff you want to assign to each of those 5 points is up to you. Me, I think most of it is points 2, 3 and especially 4. But whatever - my belief is that Corbyn is an ultra-far-left, power-hungry guy with a thick, thick file in the MI5 archives from the Cold War days, if you get what I mean.
    Still not tired of winning.

  2. #25982
    Have fun with that guys.
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    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
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  3. #25983
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Have fun with that guys.
    What fun? there hasn't been any in 9 years.

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  4. #25984
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    How much blame for the Labour anti-semitism stuff you want to assign to each of those 5 points is up to you. Me, I think most of it is points 2, 3 and especially 4. But whatever - my belief is that Corbyn is an ultra-far-left, power-hungry guy with a thick, thick file in the MI5 archives from the Cold War days, if you get what I mean.
    Hm, curious.

    Considering russian wealth and the Kremlin currently mostly seems to have ties with the Tories.
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
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    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold.

  5. #25985
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Hm, curious.

    Considering russian wealth and the Kremlin currently mostly seems to have ties with the Tories.
    Historically it's been the exiled eussian oligarchs from the 90s who are found on tory doner lists, but wouldn't Suprise me to find the kremlin putting out tory propaganda but I also expect there putting out Labour propaganda too, as was shown in the Muller report there mainly interested in stoking division more than one side winning, obvs they wanted trump over hillary in the states as hillary was clearly gunning for them, but the UK cons have been too anti Putin over the years to call them allies, the longer there's hung parliaments and the longer the UK is consumed by internal division and issue the better it is for Russia and that's all Russia actualy cares about.

  6. #25986
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Hm, curious.

    Considering russian wealth and the Kremlin currently mostly seems to have ties with the Tories.
    Ssh, don't bring actual facts into a discussion with someone who is so clearly operating on feelings.

    One party is getting large amounts of funding from Russians, and is suppressing a report into the activities of Russia in interfering with UK politics. So clearly it's the leader of the OTHER party that is totally under Russian control. Honest.
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  7. #25987
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    The surprising part is that not much of what you are saying is true. They aren't promising tax cuts, they aren't promising to spend all that much (or maybe that the window on "much" has been so radically moved in this election), it's basically promising nothing. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the only tax cut is a cut to National Insurance which by all rights should be getting dumped on (how do you find extra money for the NHS whilst directly defunding the NHS?), It's a hardly even worth raising an eye brow at.

    Yeah sure they will be getting off easy but even a deep dive on it isn't going to pull up much because their isn't anything in the fucking thing.
    They aren't promising tax cuts, except the tax cuts you just mentioned...

    As to spending, more police, more nurses, restarting nursing bursaries, more hospitals, spend billions on new homes, create 250k new childcare places, £2 billion to fill potholes...

    I think that constitutes increased spending and cutting taxes.

    So thanks for letting me feel free to correct you.

    If you think getting 50k new nurses isn't pie in the sky I've got a bridge to sell you, fwiw I'm a nurse, so I can guarantee you we aren't getting 50k new nurses.

    I haven't included the 70 billion his Brexit plan is expected to cost us.
    Last edited by draykorinee; 2019-11-25 at 06:52 PM.

  8. #25988
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    They aren't promising tax cuts, except the tax cuts you just mentioned...

    As to spending, more police, more nurses, restarting nursing bursaries, more hospitals, spend billions on new homes, create 250k new childcare places, £2 billion to fill potholes...

    I think that constitutes increased spending and cutting taxes.

    So thanks for letting me feel free to correct you.

    If you think getting 50k new nurses isn't pie in the sky I've got a bridge to sell you, fwiw I'm a nurse, so I can guarantee you we aren't getting 50k new nurses.
    Like all things promised, there's a promise then there's implimenting it, as jess Philips MP basically said, being realistic you should always take manifestos with a pinch of salt. Usualy you get a few off the list befor time runs out and there's a new GE. I know full well corbyn will probly only manage a few things on his list within the 4 years, what rings alarm bells is how interconected alot of them are to not backfire, like how the land value tax is reliant on the rent rate controls to not end up being passed on to tenants rent.

  9. #25989
    Pandaren Monk Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Considering russian wealth and the Kremlin currently mostly seems to have ties with the Tories.
    Well, bear in mind that the modern Kremlin isn't the Cold War Kremlin . The old utopian Bolsheviks have been replaced with Russian nationalists, so yeah, bit different .

    Quote Originally Posted by Vantisara View Post
    The "small government" types seem to be strangely absent when banks are being subsidized by the state. You people only want small government when it hurts the poor.
    Speak for yourself. Bailing out the banks to prevent little things like civil unrest and riots is one thing (anyone remember Northern Rock & all that?), but what actually happened... not so much.
    Still not tired of winning.

  10. #25990
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Historically it's been the exiled eussian oligarchs from the 90s who are found on tory doner lists, but wouldn't Suprise me to find the kremlin putting out tory propaganda but I also expect there putting out Labour propaganda too, as was shown in the Muller report there mainly interested in stoking division more than one side winning, obvs they wanted trump over hillary in the states as hillary was clearly gunning for them, but the UK cons have been too anti Putin over the years to call them allies, the longer there's hung parliaments and the longer the UK is consumed by internal division and issue the better it is for Russia and that's all Russia actualy cares about.
    The Russian stake in this has always been about breaking up the EU.

  11. #25991
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The Russian stake in this has always been about breaking up the EU.
    that as well,

    also prevent an EU combined army.

    and push turkey away from the eu and nato and under there influence.

    and keep everyone from remembering they have basically held eastern ukrain and Crimea for years now.

    they gain a lot by keeping us focused on internal problems, and dividing us.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Well, bear in mind that the modern Kremlin isn't the Cold War Kremlin . The old utopian Bolsheviks have been replaced with Russian nationalists, so yeah, bit different .


    Speak for yourself. Bailing out the banks to prevent little things like civil unrest and riots is one thing (anyone remember Northern Rock & all that?), but what actually happened... not so much.
    catch 22 for the Tories though as there backed by alot of exiled oligarchs putin threw out that have alot of there plunder invested in london.

  12. #25992
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    They aren't promising tax cuts, except the tax cuts you just mentioned...

    As to spending, more police, more nurses, restarting nursing bursaries, more hospitals, spend billions on new homes, create 250k new childcare places, £2 billion to fill potholes...

    I think that constitutes increased spending and cutting taxes.

    So thanks for letting me feel free to correct you.

    If you think getting 50k new nurses isn't pie in the sky I've got a bridge to sell you, fwiw I'm a nurse, so I can guarantee you we aren't getting 50k new nurses.

    I haven't included the 70 billion his Brexit plan is expected to cost us.
    My point was that the Tories are planning to return to pre crash levels of spending, that's shit we used to think we could afford but stopped because of austerity. If you want to go into specifics though...

    They aren't promising 50k new Nurses, it's 32.5k new Nurses and the rest will be coming or more accurately, staying. They hope more Nurses will stay on and are using that to pad up the figure. Costed at >3 billion per year.

    0 new Hospitals, it's a pledge for 2025-30 and is completely uncosted because they won't be building any.

    20k new Police, 750 million pledged and 45 million already dropped.

    Renewing the Affordable Homes Programme which so far has consistently failed to meet any of it's target coupled together with the parties bungled past effort with "Starter Homes" means why even fucking bother costing this. They won't be building shit.

    So no, I'm not really convinced about this massive spending you're projecting from the Tories. 70 billion spent on Brexit!? Have you not read any of dribbles posts? The sheer gall of insinuating Brexit will be anything less than a net positive! The shame.

  13. #25993
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    My point was that the Tories are planning to return to pre crash levels of spending, that's shit we used to think we could afford but stopped because of austerity. If you want to go into specifics though...
    I get what you're saying tbf, like I said in my first post you quoted they're going to revert all the cuts they did previously.

  14. #25994
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    I get what you're saying tbf, like I said in my first post you quoted they're going to revert all the cuts they did previously.
    Not all. There’s no mention of reverting the cuts to local authority or social care spending. At best, these are partial reverts in some sectors, and even then they’re 10 year plans, and as such not worth the paper they’re written on; if Boris’s word has any value to start with.

  15. #25995
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Not all. There’s no mention of reverting the cuts to local authority or social care spending. At best, these are partial reverts in some sectors, and even then they’re 10 year plans, and as such not worth the paper they’re written on; if Boris’s word has any value to start with.
    Oh all right, I shouldn't have said all! I accept the poor wording on my part.

    A terrible manifesto.

    What I don’t understand when reading political manifestos is when a party who’s been in power for ten years says “vote for us and we’ll do such a such”.
    Surely they should be able to go “vote for us, because look at all the great stuff we’ve done over the past decade, vote for us and we will keep being great”. Unless of course, they’re not that great.

  16. #25996
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Oh all right, I shouldn't have said all! I accept the poor wording on my part.

    A terrible manifesto.
    Their only message seems to be Get Brexit Done.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  17. #25997
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Their only message seems to be Get Brexit Done.
    Strong And Stable. Chaos With Corbyn.

    Beep Boop Beep.

  18. #25998
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Chaos with Corbyn is back again, how do they say that with a straight face after the last 2 years?

  19. #25999
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Chaos with Corbyn is back again, how do they say that with a straight face after the last 2 years?
    Because it doesn't have to be true. The brainwashed followers just have to swallow it.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #26000
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Their only message seems to be Get Brexit Done.
    Apparently, that's all they need. Yougov predicts a big majority for them. Guess the UK really wants out. Fine by me.
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