View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26101
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Well President Von der Leyen doesn't sound very happy with Germany when she threatens yesterday:-

    "The final word on EU law is always spoken in Luxembourg. Nowhere else." That told them and then'she says...

    “We will look into possible next steps, which may include the option of infringement proceedings”

    Germany to get kicked out of the EU? We were so lucky to have had the sense and voted to leave when we did in what is now a vindication of all Brexit supporters.
    Germany will not be kicked out the EU. From what I can gather the German courts have not said that any wrong doing has taken place only that BBk has to justify that the ECB policy was proportional, I suspect that BBk will be able to come up with a compelling argument as to why it was proportional within the three month time frame and nothing more will come this.

    I think that the butting of heads between the ECJ and the German courts over who has superiority when it comes to monetary policy will rumble on and on but it will be nothing more than a minor distraction.

  2. #26102
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    that moved him in to being more logical in his handling of the virus. Or else you would be a government still very much and fully in denial that this is virus is a real thing.
    Sweden: allegedly 244 deaths per million due to wuflu.
    UK: allegedly 384 deaths per million due to wuflu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Germany will not be kicked out the EU.
    That's just @dribbles seeing who will bite .

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    From what I can gather the German courts have not said that any wrong doing has taken place only that BBk has to justify that the ECB policy was proportional, I suspect that BBk will be able to come up with a compelling argument as to why it was proportional within the three month time frame and nothing more will come this.
    The FCC found that by pursuing the objective of monetary policy ‘unconditionally while ignoring the economic policy effects resulting from the programme, the ECB manifestly disregards the principle of proportionality’ (para 165).

    From that blog I posted. Still think your ultimate conclusion is correct though.
    Still not tired of winning.

  3. #26103
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    That's just @dribbles seeing who will bite .


    The FCC found that by pursuing the objective of monetary policy ‘unconditionally while ignoring the economic policy effects resulting from the programme, the ECB manifestly disregards the principle of proportionality’ (para 165).

    From that blog I posted. Still think your ultimate conclusion is correct though.
    I didn't come down in the last shower.

    Yep, that's my point BBk has thus far failed to show that the actions taken were proportional but I have little doubt that they will they will be able convince the court that they did follow the principles by the deadline.

    Quite honestly this has nothing to do with Brexit and I would argue that it is not really an EU issue but a problem with the Euro.

  4. #26104
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Germany will not be kicked out the EU. From what I can gather the German courts have not said that any wrong doing has taken place only that BBk has to justify that the ECB policy was proportional, I suspect that BBk will be able to come up with a compelling argument as to why it was proportional within the three month time frame and nothing more will come this.

    I think that the butting of heads between the ECJ and the German courts over who has superiority when it comes to monetary policy will rumble on and on but it will be nothing more than a minor distraction.
    Oh I think it is more than a minor distraction, you can see from her appalling comments that she has no accountability to the EU citizens she represents and doesn't have to stand for election by the people who pay her wages.

    An excellent example of why Britain voted for brexit and displays the democratic deficit within the EU which will split it apart eventually.

    Another opinion puts it better than I...

    "For the first time since the European Economic Community was founded in 1957, a member state has legally asserted European bodies have overreached. Germany is not just any member state. The highest court of Europe’s biggest economy, the eurozone’s paymaster, has just declared the EU’s ultimate authority is “invalid” within German borders.'
    Liam Halligan, writing in The Telegraph (May 9th)

    https://eutoday.net/news/politics/20...ng-against-ecb

    What the German courts have just ruled on, taking back their sovereignty from the EU, was a major motivator in the UK brexit referendum.

    I reckon the EU are missing the UK boogeyman so much they are lining up Germany to take our place and are now taking pops at them and the Germans are putting the EU back back in their box and having none of it, well done to them I say. Be a lot easier just to do a DExit though, hopefully they will fingers X.
    Britannia waives the rules!

  5. #26105
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh I think it is more than a minor distraction, you can see from her appalling comments that she has no accountability to the EU citizens she represents and doesn't have to stand for election by the people who pay her wages.

    An excellent example of why Britain voted for brexit and displays the democratic deficit within the EU which will split it apart eventually.

    Another opinion puts it better than I...

    "For the first time since the European Economic Community was founded in 1957, a member state has legally asserted European bodies have overreached. Germany is not just any member state. The highest court of Europe’s biggest economy, the eurozone’s paymaster, has just declared the EU’s ultimate authority is “invalid” within German borders.'
    Liam Halligan, writing in The Telegraph (May 9th)

    https://eutoday.net/news/politics/20...ng-against-ecb

    What the German courts have just ruled on, taking back their sovereignty from the EU, was a major motivator in the UK brexit referendum.

    I reckon the EU are missing the UK boogeyman so much they are lining up Germany to take our place and are now taking pops at them and the Germans are putting the EU back back in their box and having none of it, well done to them I say. Be a lot easier just to do a DExit though, hopefully they will fingers X.
    Member states locking horns with the EC over who should have the ultimate say over how policy is implemented is nothing new.

    As I understand it - I would really appreciate it if someone with some actual knowledge on the subject could shed some light on the topic but unfortunately this thread is more likely produce more of the usual FBPE type nonsense - it is up to their central bank to implement ECB policy as such BBk should follow German law when implementing policy and the argument is that the policy was implemented without following German law as to whether it was proportional or not. I suspect that BBk will be able to convince the court that the action was proportional and nothing more will come from this angle but the argument over who has the ultimate authority will rumble on which will result in, the usual, can being kicked into the long grass until the next time.

    Without doubt the UK has been a scapegoat within the EU but let's not forget that we've been more than willing to point fingers and blaming someone else is something that all nations' politicians and press do whenever they get the chance.
    Last edited by Pann; 2020-05-10 at 09:53 PM.

  6. #26106
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post

    As I understand it - I would really appreciate it if someone with some actual knowledge on the subject could shed some light on the topic
    This could apply to everything you have ever written.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Sweden: allegedly 244 deaths per million due to wuflu.
    UK: allegedly 384 deaths per million due to wuflu.
    You said before you would start worrying about this when deaths from covid exceeded those from flu. Now they have, you have some other bullshit metric.

  7. #26107
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I reckon the EU are missing the UK boogeyman so much they are lining up Germany to take our place
    I doubt they can afford to TBH. Without Germany the EU is finished - I can't see the other northern European countries sticking around without Germany as a shield, and without the northern countries the EU's basically insolvent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Without doubt the UK has been a scapegoat within the EU but let's not forget that we've been more than willing to point fingers and blaming someone else is something that all nations' politicians and press do whenever they get the chance.
    Yeah, I mean it's basically a global, time-honoured tradition at this point .
    Still not tired of winning.

  8. #26108
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I doubt they can afford to TBH. Without Germany the EU is finished - I can't see the other northern European countries sticking around without Germany as a shield, and without the northern countries the EU's basically insolvent.


    Yeah, I mean it's basically a global, time-honoured tradition at this point .
    Actually, its Germany who's the scapegoat.. or one of the Four Money-pinchers, preferably the Netherlands due to how Hoekstra has absolutely no tact. The UK is rarely a scapegoat.. so be silent about that.
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  9. #26109
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I doubt they can afford to TBH. Without Germany the EU is finished - I can't see the other northern European countries sticking around without Germany as a shield, and without the northern countries the EU's basically insolvent.


    Yeah, I mean it's basically a global, time-honoured tradition at this point .
    Agreed, surprised the arrogant EU don't recognise that, they kept poking the UK and got Brexit, and they don't think the same will happen when they keep nagging away like an old woman at Germany?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Actually, its Germany who's the scapegoat.. or one of the Four Money-pinchers, preferably the Netherlands due to how Hoekstra has absolutely no tact. The UK is rarely a scapegoat.. so be silent about that.
    Well you Germans, Dutch and Belgies have a choice to make. Get your wallets out, pay up for the difference in lost EU contributions from the UK post Brexit and now on top, pay up again to prop up the southern EU nations following corona.

    The EU is either united as one or is not, oh wait hahaha did anyone notice yesterday the successful peeling off by the UK in giving one EU member state more preferential access to UK markets than others in return for the same? I thought bilateral UK single nation deals with EU members were not allowed?

    Coronavirus: What the UK and France's quarantine deal means for your holiday plans


    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...plans-11986327

    Seems the EU is as irrelevant as brexiteers thought. Divide and conquer in action by the perfidious ones before your very eyes eurochums...
    Britannia waives the rules!

  10. #26110
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Actually, its Germany who's the scapegoat.. or one of the Four Money-pinchers, preferably the Netherlands due to how Hoekstra has absolutely no tact. The UK is rarely a scapegoat.. so be silent about that.
    You are speaking of brexit land, where unicorns walk across rainbows. In that nation full of fairies, hobgoblins and trolls the others are always to blame!

    Hardly a new thing, it is always the fault of Europe, decades of a failed policy and incompetent leadership it's always Europe and now apparently Europe is blaming them while the EU has already formed plan after plan of how to deal without the UK being there. I mean sure some people will be discontent with brexit land as they tend to care for their well being and that of their nation, while the trolls set fire to the bridges the reside under and call it liberation day.

  11. #26111
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Agreed, surprised the arrogant EU don't recognise that, they kept poking the UK and got Brexit, and they don't think the same will happen when they keep nagging away like an old woman at Germany?



    Well you Germans, Dutch and Belgies have a choice to make. Get your wallets out, pay up for the difference in lost EU contributions from the UK post Brexit and now on top, pay up again to prop up the southern EU nations following corona.

    The EU is either united as one or is not, oh wait hahaha did anyone notice yesterday the successful peeling off by the UK in giving one EU member state more preferential access to UK markets than others in return for the same? I thought bilateral UK single nation deals with EU members were not allowed?

    Coronavirus: What the UK and France's quarantine deal means for your holiday plans


    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...plans-11986327

    Seems the EU is as irrelevant as brexiteers thought. Divide and conquer in action by the perfidious ones before your very eyes eurochums...
    To no one's surprise the article you linked doesn't say what you think it says.
    Infact it doesn't talk about market access at all.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #26112
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    You are speaking of brexit land, where unicorns walk across rainbows. In that nation full of fairies, hobgoblins and trolls the others are always to blame!
    Hardly. The UK was never a good fit for the EU - has de Gaulle knew full well when he kept vetoing our entry - but he lost power & others let the UK in. I daresay EU integration would've gone on quicker / further if the UK had never been a member. So yes, you can probably blame the UK for holding back the EU project a fair bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    To no one's surprise the article you linked doesn't say what you think it says.
    Infact it doesn't talk about market access at all.
    "Travellers coming to the UK from France will not have to be quarantined after the two countries agreed a reciprocal arrangement."

    That sounds like preferential market access (ie for tourists to the UK coming from France) to me. Tourists etc coming from the Netherlands or Spain or wherever? Nope they're excluded from this, to the benefit of the French who get to tax them etc for buying stuff in France before they head to the UK.
    Still not tired of winning.

  13. #26113
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    To no one's surprise the article you linked doesn't say what you think it says.
    Infact it doesn't talk about market access at all.
    By definition it is a preferential access to market agreement that applies to people travelling between France and the UK but not between Belgium and the UK or the Netherlands and the UK or Germany etc etc

    The French have got a better reciprocal deal with access to the UK tourist markets and vice versa than anyone else in the EU. A weekend break in Paris for the British, or London for the French this summer will be quite possible in a way not open to Berlin, Barcelona, Amsterdam etc etc

    It is the first crack in the "you British can't cherry pick and everything must be agreed with the EU blah blah blah nonsense"

    Please will someone tweet Verhofstadt for me? I can't wait to see his reaction....Bilateral deals with the individual component EU members is obviously the way forward going above the heads of the pointless EU. It's been done once now, the genie is out of the bottle for all to see.
    Britannia waives the rules!

  14. #26114
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    By definition it is a preferential access to market agreement that applies to people travelling between France and the UK but not between Belgium and the UK or the Netherlands and the UK or Germany etc etc

    The French have got a better reciprocal deal with access to the UK tourist markets and vice versa than anyone else in the EU. A weekend break in Paris for the British, or London for the French this summer will be quite possible in a way not open to Berlin, Barcelona, Amsterdam etc etc

    It is the first crack in the "you British can't cherry pick and everything must be agreed with the EU blah blah blah nonsense"

    Please will someone tweet Verhofstadt for me? I can't wait to see his reaction....Bilateral deals with the individual component EU members is obviously the way forward going above the heads of the pointless EU. It's been done once now, the genie is out of the bottle for all to see.
    Or, alternatively, it is just one more adjustment to the normally unfettered movement of people within the EU member countries (of which the UK is currently still one) as a result of the Covid 19 situation. There are a quite a few similar agreements being made among the 28 countries that make up the EU until the end of the year.

    Have a read here if you'd like to educate yourself. I don't expect you to avail yourself of the offer, however.

    And I wouldn't get your hopes up that any such agreement lasts beyond the end of the year, if Boris insists on crashing us out. And this kind of access would become one more thing to try and clear up in the negotiations; where you should expect to either pay for it, or give up something else like fishing rights.

    Another Brexit dream shattered, another unicorn dies. Sad.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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  15. #26115
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Or, alternatively, it is just one more adjustment to the normally unfettered movement of people within the EU member countries (of which the UK is currently still one) as a result of the Covid 19 situation. There are a quite a few similar agreements being made among the 28 countries that make up the EU until the end of the year.
    lol still not accepting we have already left. You are going for the title of "The last remainer"?

    Have a read here if you'd like to educate yourself. I don't expect you to avail yourself of the offer, however.
    That's just a long winded legalese opinion piece document of the EU position trying, but failing, to stay relevant. Individual nations have already decided what to do about borders without recourse to the lacking in leadership EU.

    And I wouldn't get your hopes up that any such agreement lasts beyond the end of the year, if Boris insists on crashing us out. And this kind of access would become one more thing to try and clear up in the negotiations; where you should expect to either pay for it, or give up something else like fishing rights.
    Nope again, the fishes and the waters and the borders are ours to deal with each individual European nation not the EU as one. The important Macron/Johnson precedent, negating the requirement for EU involvement, as agreed yesterday has been set.

    Out of the scores of EU nations waiting to do individual deals with Britain to the exclusion of the EU after Brexit I'd never have put the French at the top of the list to complete one first would you? But it just shows you what can be done without EU interference. Which EU nation is next and ripe for the UK cake and eat it cherry picking process?

    Another Brexit dream shattered, another unicorn dies. Sad.
    Another Brexit dream realised, another delivered. Happy days.
    Britannia waives the rules!

  16. #26116
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    lol still not accepting we have already left. You are going for the title of "The last remainer"?
    One last attempt to explain loud enough to get through the fingers in your ears and the shouts of LALALA.

    Saying "I'm leaving" is not the same as actually leaving. If your family are foolish enough to spend Xmas with you, when they get bored of your fascist ranting and say "we're leaving" that doesn't mean they've left. They are still in your house, still drinking the wine you've made from the bitter grapes you grow. They still have to follow your rules about using coasters and not dropping crumbs. They still have to listen to your unicorn grooming tips. They are about to leave, of course. Their leaving is an inevitability. But they haven't left yet.

    And that's where the UK is. Still at the party, complaining about how much the tickets cost and how terrible the house rules are, while still eating and drinking as they have for years. Still convinced that once they actually leave they'll be able to make their own party that will be so much better and cheaper. Still dreaming of unicorns and sunlit uplands. Still very much at the party.

    And you will be until the end of the year. Assuming Boris doesn't come to his senses and ask for an extension.

    The ticking and tocking continues dribbles. My money is still on you and your type blaming the subsequent disasters on Covid 19. But who knows, maybe you'll surprise me with some personal growth that leads you to actually taking responsibility for the shitshow. But I doubt it.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
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  17. #26117
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Or, alternatively, it is just one more adjustment
    Hah, I like that. It's not preferential access via France, it's an adjustment to the existing EU-wide rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    EU member countries (of which the UK is currently still one)
    There are lies, damned lies, and Huehuecoyotl's posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    And I wouldn't get your hopes up that any such agreement lasts beyond the end of the year
    Doesn't need to. Once the principle has been established and we have a working example to go by, we can dangle that carrot in front of other EU member states too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    And this kind of access would become one more thing to try and clear up in the negotiations; where you should expect to either pay for it, or give up something else like fishing rights.
    Nope. We just say there's one rule for the EU, and then go behind the EU team's back to negotiate with individual member state governments. Perfidious Albion smashing yet another European hegemony .
    Still not tired of winning.

  18. #26118
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Doesn't need to. Once the principle has been established and we have a working example to go by, we can dangle that carrot in front of other EU member states too.
    The US have been trying that for the best part of a decade, to no avail. But sure, the UK being a fraction of the size of population, a fraction of the size of economy and a TINY fraction of the recent experience in negotiating recent trade deals of the US will be able to sort it out.

    The rest of the EU understand the power that sticking together brings them. They understand what it would be like to be a tiny fish in waters that have China and the US swimming in them. It's only us that doesn't.

    But sure, we'll be able to get whatever we want from negotiations with the EU. Just like we have the last 3 years, eh? And you wonder why we keep talking about unicorns and calling Brexiteers deluded? Fucking hilarious.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  19. #26119
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    The US have been trying that for the best part of a decade, to no avail. But sure, the UK being a fraction of the size of population, a fraction of the size of economy and a TINY fraction of the recent experience in negotiating recent trade deals of the US will be able to sort it out.
    And we also have zero experience of being inside the EU- oh. No, wait a minute, that's not right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    The rest of the EU understand the power that sticking together brings them.
    Like France nicking PPE destined for Italy? All for one and one for all indeed .

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    They understand what it would be like to be a tiny fish in waters that have China and the US swimming in them.
    As well they should, given that, France excepted, they don't have any nukes or military worth writing home about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    But sure, we'll be able to get whatever we want from negotiations with the EU.
    Who said that? I mean, beyond the voices in your head.

    (Infracted - Flaming)
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Just like we have the last 3 years, eh?
    For those of us who want - or are merely content with - no deal, what makes you think we haven't been getting our way ?
    Last edited by GothamCity; 2020-05-11 at 11:04 PM.
    Still not tired of winning.

  20. #26120
    The US will demand control over other trade deals that the UK seeks to make as a condition for entering into a trade deal themselves.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ts-us-or-china

    Come on then @dribbles, keep on pushing the "taking back control" message you're so keen on. We can stop being part of the group of EU nations that work to negotiate agreements that everyone signs up for, and go to being completely beholden to what the US demands of us. If only some of us could have seen this coming, eh?

    And with that, yet another unicorn dies. So sad.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

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