[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Huehuecoyotl]

They'll find out in about a month and a week.

It'll take longer than that. Reality takes a fair while to penetrate things that dense. I expect people to still be saying "isn't Brexit wonderful" when the choice is whether to eat stray dogs or tramps.

[Monster Hunter]

Strategy from opposition parties should be to philibuster the fuck out of Boris' Brexit bill.

Really for no other reason than he'd then have to spend 2 weeks squirming about why he has failed (again) to 'get Brexit done'.

That's not how that would go down in the media and the public. People know what filibustering is and he won the election based on public anger at MP's seemingly delaying brexit. Filibustering would just play stright into his propaganda directly.

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It's all I've ever heard him preach on the rise of populism. It's like he hit upon this and then decided it was such a brilliant insight that he needs to repeat it in every bit of content he produces. There definitely is an element of anti-intellectualism to Brexit but that's not why the Red Wall fell, what people in Leave constituencies wanted was to have their voice heard and whilst this wasn't an ideological victory for the Conservative party in the way that Thatcher winning in 79, Leavers were happy to risk the Conservatives because there is no trust in Labour to deliver atm. Having been completely ignored, abandoned or betrayed for 40 years, that's the unsurprising part, not this attempt to insert an American narrative into our politics.

In saying that GL to Thornberry in trying to get anyone to believe shes not exactly one of these "Elitists" lol.

An interview with an old labour mp who lost his seat was interesting in that matter.

He basicly said the problem runs far deeper than brexit and corbyn. The red wall has been crumbling slowly for decades, they belived Blair had managed to reverse the rot but in the end it was just a pause, but for decades there majority has been slowly shrinking in those seats.

He wasn't suprised the Red Wall fell, aparantly that was expected at some point eventually, he was suprised how quickly brexit excelerated the loss.

The challenge now is how Labour can ever win elections without Scotland (lost to the SNP) and without the Red Wall. As the inner city Liberal vote can be flaky and there's not enough seats with only that demographic to win.

[Monster Hunter]

I don't expect reality to penetrate, ever. It hasn't my whole lifetime. When the perception of everything is controlled by the media you can get with anything.

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Vague, unsourced, anecdote.....

Channel 4, the interview was him and that Rory guy who went for conservative leader but was then kicked out of the party by bojo

[Pannonian]

That's not how that would go down in the media and the public. People know what filibustering is and he won the election based on public anger at MP's seemingly delaying brexit. Filibustering would just play stright into his propaganda directly.

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An interview with an old labour mp who lost his seat was interesting in that matter.

He basicly said the problem runs far deeper than brexit and corbyn. The red wall has been crumbling slowly for decades, they belived Blair had managed to reverse the rot but in the end it was just a pause, but for decades there majority has been slowly shrinking in those seats.

He wasn't suprised the Red Wall fell, aparantly that was expected at some point eventually, he was suprised how quickly brexit excelerated the loss.

The challenge now is how Labour can ever win elections without Scotland (lost to the SNP) and without the Red Wall. As the inner city Liberal vote can be flaky and there's not enough seats with only that demographic to win.

Interesting. The exact same is said about the social democrats in germany and austria. And both are loosing massively in the polls. And yeah, i can somehow understand it.

At least for the socialist democrats in my country they try to invoke what they've done for the workers the past 100 years. And its true, they have achieved a lot of good things, but you cannot dwell in the past.

I come from a very socialist background, but i have lost all faith in them, because in my opinion, they try to act like its 1920, not 2020, not seeing that modern problems require modern solutions. Things like the "new proletariat" - the fast food workers, UBER drivers, etc. - they're not reached by them at all. And "classical" workers... there are not that many left, and maybe as long as they seem themselves as workers parties, they will shrink the same amount as workers do in the labor force.

Anyway, actual reason for posting: I tuned out of the news the past weeks. So after BoJo won and Brexit seems to be a go: What is the solution for Ireland?

[Jessicka]

I don't expect reality to penetrate, ever. It hasn't my whole lifetime. When the perception of everything is controlled by the media you can get with anything.

It's more than that. It's denialism, it won't sink in because it's something they want to be right about in the face of all evidence to the contrary. It's like flat earthers, global warming deniers, and all the rest. No surprise really that these are things that encompass the same demographics.

[Monster Hunter]

Interesting. The exact same is said about the social democrats in germany and austria. And both are loosing massively in the polls. And yeah, i can somehow understand it.

At least for the socialist democrats in my country they try to invoke what they've done for the workers the past 100 years. And its true, they have achieved a lot of good things, but you cannot dwell in the past.

I come from a very socialist background, but i have lost all faith in them, because in my opinion, they try to act like its 1920, not 2020, not seeing that modern problems require modern solutions. Things like the "new proletariat" - the fast food workers, UBER drivers, etc. - they're not reached by them at all. And "classical" workers... there are not that many left, and maybe as long as they seem themselves as workers parties, they will shrink the same amount as workers do in the labor force.

Anyway, actual reason for posting: I tuned out of the news the past weeks. So after BoJo won and Brexit seems to be a go: What is the solution for Ireland?

Customs Boarder in the Irish Sea I think was agreed between the UK and EU. So easentialy NI for customs purposes is still in the EU and has no boarder or anything like that and goods get checked and passports needed to come into the mainland.

Dup are screaming like the sky's falling and thousands of babies are getting aborted, but jhonson dosnt need them anymore. And the general reaction I've felt from at least my local area to Northern Ireland has always been "fuck em" so the "its breaking up the union" line isn't taking at leas round here.

Im starting to think that the gov and political class seriously over estimate the English working classes enthusiasm for keeping the UK whole.

Other than that it's Xmas and the govs got enough majority to do as they wish and not many seem to be talking about round me anymore.

[Kallisto]

Im starting to think that the gov and political class seriously over estimate the English working classes enthusiasm for keeping the UK whole.

I mean they must have ignored the poll that basically had Brexit but X happens list with english Brexiteers and the polls showed they would still want brexit if it meant.

Labour became government (without Corbyn)
LD were in government
Scotland leaves
N.Ireland leaves.
Wales Leaves.

In fact the only thing that would have made them go against brexit would be in Brexit brought in Corbyn as PM.

[dribbles]

Just out of curiosity.. What will you people come up with when the British people remain eating cow and pigs, rather than dogs?

They won't be able to come up with anything. Just as Nazi collaborators were once hunted and brought to justice, when the Brexit dust settles, these current day EU sympathisers who tried to subvert UK democracy (BBC Laura's words, not mine) should not have the chance to ever commit such heinous acts again. What penalties they should face is yet to be decided, I hope new laws take care of them for a very long time.

I expect these treasonous remainers, having colluded with the EU enemy, will keep their heads down in shame when asked by their grandkids "What did you do for UK freedom during the Brexit age Grandpa?" They'll probably even pretend to be brexiteer heros when in fact they were the exact traitorous opposites...

I mean they must have ignored the poll that basically had Brexit but X happens list with english Brexiteers and the polls showed they would still want brexit if it meant.

Labour became government (without Corbyn)
LD were in government
Scotland leaves
N.Ireland leaves.
Wales Leaves.

In fact the only thing that would have made them go against brexit would be in Brexit brought in Corbyn as PM.

All this talk of the UK breaking up after Brexit is bunkum, the most vocal being in Scotland was settled for generation very recently. The Queen of England hasn't finished ruling up there yet whether they like it or not. When last asked in 2014 they said they liked it...that question has been answered.

[JohnBrown1917]

Same goes for you, Tory.. What are you going to do if you can no longer distract the people with Brexit?

Fuck everybody over with a right-wing style breexit. The US is gonna love it though.

[Monster Hunter]

I mean they must have ignored the poll that basically had Brexit but X happens list with english Brexiteers and the polls showed they would still want brexit if it meant.

Labour became government (without Corbyn)
LD were in government
Scotland leaves
N.Ireland leaves.
Wales Leaves.

In fact the only thing that would have made them go against brexit would be in Brexit brought in Corbyn as PM.

Probly should have had that as a stratagy for remain.

You can have brexit but corbyn is the pm. Would have killed brexit dead haha.

But on a serious note I think your right at this point brexit has gone from a debatable ideological thing to becoming almost a point of stubborn pride that they won the ref and now they will do litteraly anything to have the result implemented.

But even without brexit, using the dissolution of the union as a threat wouldn't get much traction amongst the majority of the public because they/we simply don't care, Scotland, NI and Wales going independant has no real negative consequences for us so other than some appeal to history and notions of British nationalism (that is vastly smaller than English, Scottish, Welsh nationalism) there's not really anything that would make the averedge working person care. Also historically the people of Scotland and England never wanted the union to begin with, it took the King and the Lords some serious back hand bribes to both parliaments to pull it off and at the time the common folk couldn't vote.

But I could be biased in my assessment, my family is descended from boarder reavers so we lost alot of money and the family trade with the act of union.

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Fuck everybody over with a right-wing style breexit. The US is gonna love it though.

Doubt it. News atm is Boris is giving trump the cold shoulder.

[Gorsameth]

Haha comparing remainers to nazi sympathisers.

Hate to break it to you but Brexit is the nazi sympathisers winning. Remember Brexit is a product of the far Right to keep the immigrants out that could enter under EU law. Everything else after was just dressing up to big to get the common man to vote for it.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Same goes for you, Tory.. What are you going to do if you can no longer distract the people with Brexit?

What will be your excuse for the economic failing if you cannot blame it all on the EU?

Change the way you count things so that it looks like the economy isn't getting worse. Blame anyone that was originally from a foreign country. Blame anyone that isn't white. Blame Labour for leaving a note that says "there's no money left". Blame the EU for not giving us a better deal.

The Tories have always been good at redirecting failure to anyone that isn't them. With the help of the MSM, of course.

[Monster Hunter]

They won't be able to come up with anything. Just as Nazi collaborators were once hunted and brought to justice, when the Brexit dust settles, these current day EU sympathisers who tried to subvert UK democracy (BBC Laura's words, not mine) should not have the chance to ever commit such heinous acts again. What penalties they should face is yet to be decided, I hope new laws take care of them for a very long time.

I expect these treasonous remainers, having colluded with the EU enemy, will keep their heads down in shame when asked by their grandkids "What did you do for UK freedom during the Brexit age Grandpa?" They'll probably even pretend to be brexiteer heros when in fact they were the exact traitorous opposites...



All this talk of the UK breaking up after Brexit is bunkum, the most vocal being in Scotland was settled for generation very recently. The Queen of England hasn't finished ruling up there yet whether they like it or not. When last asked in 2014 they said they liked it...that question has been answered.

1. The last English monarch died in 1603, after which the throne of England was inherited by James the King of Scotland. The monarchy has far more German and Scottish blood than English in it.

2. The eu isn't our enemy, even with this brexit disaster they are still our closes allies, far closer than America is or will ever be.

3. Remainers are not traitors, they fundementaly belive leaving the eu will cause our country deep economic harm they are acting in what they belive is the national interest and for the good of the nation, a traitor fundementaly acts against there own nation with malicious intent.

4.language like that is why politics is so toxic atm.

5. There won't be new laws to punish Remainers, this is a parliamentary democracy with freedom of expression and systems used to safe guard the nation against bad decisions, systems they legitimately used in hopes to buy time that the public might change there mind, the public didn't in a large enough way but those systems are legitimate, legal and nessesary in an adversarial parliamentary system.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I expect these treasonous remainers, having colluded with the EU enemy, will keep their heads down in shame when asked by their grandkids "What did you do for UK freedom during the Brexit age Grandpa?"

Speaking as one of those Remainers, I can tell you what I'm going to be doing for the next 5 years. I'll be waiting (breath as unbaited as it can get) to see all those unicorns you promised us. To see all the economic and social benefits that we were absolutely told we would get if only we just got Brexit done. If we see them, then maybe you'll get an apology out of me.

But more likely what we will see is an utter train-wreck of a "solution" in desparate search for the problems it was supposed to fix. The country getting worse as a result of how this lazy feckless PM manages the whole process. And all those right-wing fuckwits that pushed the whole thing through looking for new excuses and new targets for why it failed.

I never wanted this, but at least we get to see Brexit in all its glory. You can't hide behind it not being done right. You can't hide behind it being managed by Remainers. You are going to get the Brexit you wanted, and when it fucks up you get to own the responsibility for it. It wasn't my choice for the outcome, but at least it stops you all sitting on the sidelines whinging about how good it could have been. We all get to see how good an idea Brexit was, and you'll have nowhere to hide.

[dribbles]

1. The last English monarch died in 1603, after which the throne of England was inherited by James the King of Scotland. The monarchy has far more German and Scottish blood than English in it.

2. The eu isn't our enemy, even with this brexit disaster they are still our closes allies, far closer than America is or will ever be.

3. Remainers are not traitors, they fundementaly belive leaving the eu will cause our country deep economic harm they are acting in what they belive is the national interest and for the good of the nation, a traitor fundementaly acts against there own nation with malicious intent.

4.language like that is why politics is so toxic atm.

5. There won't be new laws to punish Remainers, this is a parliamentary democracy with freedom of expression and systems used to safe guard the nation against bad decisions, systems they legitimately used in hopes to buy time that the public might change there mind, the public didn't in a large enough way but those systems are legitimate, legal and nessesary in an adversarial parliamentary system.

1. She is called the Queen of England, yet rules Scotland, however is not called the Queen of Scotland. Is all I was saying...

2. Yes it is. Furthermore it is the enemy of every nation state contained within it, to the endpoint being the destruction of those nation states until only the EU host remains. verhofwhatnot says it enough and on video it's all just a google away...

3. Remainers are traitors, they'd have been shot less than a century ago for what they have done.

4. Politics has always been toxic. The gentle folk probably best keep away from it.

5. I'm sure going forward a small modification to our laws on treason could cover it, if not retrospectively. Don't put such an obvious vote winner past Boris...

Speaking as one of those Remainers, I can tell you what I'm going to be doing for the next 5 years. I'll be waiting (breath as unbaited as it can get) to see all those unicorns you promised us. To see all the economic and social benefits that we were absolutely told we would get if only we just got Brexit done. If we see them, then maybe you'll get an apology out of me.

But more likely what we will see is an utter train-wreck of a "solution" in desparate search for the problems it was supposed to fix. The country getting worse as a result of how this lazy feckless PM manages the whole process. And all those right-wing fuckwits that pushed the whole thing through looking for new excuses and new targets for why it failed.

I never wanted this, but at least we get to see Brexit in all its glory. You can't hide behind it not being done right. You can't hide behind it being managed by Remainers. You are going to get the Brexit you wanted, and when it fucks up you get to own the responsibility for it. It wasn't my choice for the outcome, but at least it stops you all sitting on the sidelines whinging about how good it could have been. We all get to see how good an idea Brexit was, and you'll have nowhere to hide.

You are already beginning to see it. Just look at this...

On the NHS, the government says it will enshrine in law a commitment on the health service's funding, with an extra £33.9bn per year provided by 2023/24.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50842124

What is 34bn a year divided by 52 weeks? An extra £650 million a week (ish) What did the bus say?

And as for your 5 year timetable, Boris is here for far more than that, 10 years perhaps 15 depending on who replaces Corbyn. I'm tempted to pay my 3 quid or whatever it is and campaign and vote to keep Corbyn, the best asset a Tory voter could ever have!

Wonderful days are ahead. If it wasn't for the remainers subverting democracy it could have happened far far sooner. How many people would not have died if such investment was made available to our NHS a couple of years ago? Difficult questions remainers must be made to answer...


Infracted.

[Monster Hunter]

1. She is called the Queen of England, yet rules Scotland, however is not called the Queen of Scotland. Is all I was saying...

2. Yes it is. Furthermore it is the enemy of every nation state contained within it, to the endpoint being the destruction of those nation states until only the EU host remains. verhofwhatnot says it enough and on video it's all just a google away...

3. Remainers are traitors, they'd have been shot less than a century ago for what they have done.

4. Politics has always been toxic. The gentle folk probably best keep away from it.

5. I'm sure going forward a small modification to our laws on treason could cover it, if not retrospectively. Don't put such an obvious vote winner past Boris...



You are already beginning to see it. Just look at this...

On the NHS, the government says it will enshrine in law a commitment on the health service's funding, with an extra £33.9bn per year provided by 2023/24.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50842124

What is 34bn a year divided by 52 weeks? An extra £650 million a week (ish) What did the bus say?

And as for your 5 year timetable, Boris is here for far more than that, 10 years perhaps 15 depending on who replaces Corbyn. I'm tempted to pay my 3 quid or whatever it is and campaign and vote to keep Corbyn, the best asset a Tory voter could ever have!

Wonderful days are ahead. If it wasn't for the remainers subverting democracy it could have happened far far sooner. How many people would not have died if such investment was made available to our NHS a couple of years ago? Difficult questions remainers must be made to answer...

1. She's called the queen of Scotland in Scotland. We call her the Queen of England because we're English and she's our Queen too. In Canada her title has Queen of Canada in it. O.o are your really theat simple?

Her full official title is.
by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, Queen, Defender of the Faith.

2. Its the first enamy I've ever know plow more investment into my area than our own goverment has. If they eu Was our enemy, why are they letting us leave?

3.remainers arn't traitors and no the wouldn't have been. When the union formed many many many people hated the idea in England and Scotland and many scoxiteers and engxiteers existed and for a long time. Bar the convinanteers that actively plotted rebellion non of them were killed or persicuted for the belife that England and Scotland should remain independant. The same applies in reverse now.

4. The great compromise disagrees with you.

5. Treason relies on malicious intent and actively working with a nation the home nation is at war with. That laws not going to be changing no matter how deluded you get and not even Boris would be able to get that past the house of Lords. Even if it didn't break alot of international laws.

Stop being such a bloody disgrace and shows some decorum man. You're acting like a fool.

[Kallisto]

It's like the veil has fallen off dribbles so much the past few months he decided to basically just throw it into the fire and act out and out now like a far right fascist and almost certainly foreigner. No one here goes "Queen of England." since we know it's UK.

[dribbles]

1. She's called the queen of Scotland in Scotland. We call her the Queen of England because we're English and she's our Queen too. In Canada her title has Queen of Canada in it. O.o are your really theat simple?

Her full official title is.
by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, Queen, Defender of the Faith.

I really don't want to go so far off topic to talk about the pillar box war of the 1950's, and suchlike because I am sure that all the Scots members here will be along soon to claim HM Elizabeth II Queen of England as Queen of Scotland. Lols, or maybe they won't....

I'm waiting.....tap tap tap

The points about the EU, Brexit and the NHS stand however...

[JohnBrown1917]

I really don't care, in the end a Brexit is a good thing as long as it weakens the EU.
Less neoliberalism in the world, less imperialism.. That can only be seen as a good thing.

Unless you're living in the UK or Ireland. Not that you ever cared about anybody suffering.

[Monster Hunter]

I really don't want to go so far off topic to talk about the pillar box war of the 1950's, and suchlike because I am sure that all the Scots members here will be along soon to claim HM Elizabeth II Queen of England as Queen of Scotland. Lols, or maybe they won't....

I'm waiting.....tap tap tap

The points about the EU, Brexit and the NHS stand however...

she is the queen of scotland. the pillar box war was over the use of the wrong insignia being used in scotland. and by war it was a few guys and one guy from the loyalist orange order taking exception.

but the queen is the queen of scotland and called the queen of scotland in scotland. shes also descended more directly from the Scottish Stuarts than the english Tudors. and even more directly from William 3 Stadtholder of Holland, Zeeland, Utrecht, Guelders and Overijssel. and even more directly than that from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. since 1901.

queen liz is a 5th generation German immigrant. with loose blood ties to Holland and scotland. and very very little english.