View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26301
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I really don't want to go so far off topic to talk about the pillar box war of the 1950's, and suchlike because I am sure that all the Scots members here will be along soon to claim HM Elizabeth II Queen of England as Queen of Scotland. Lols, or maybe they won't....

    I'm waiting.....tap tap tap

    The points about the EU, Brexit and the NHS stand however...
    she is the queen of scotland. the pillar box war was over the use of the wrong insignia being used in scotland. and by war it was a few guys and one guy from the loyalist orange order taking exception.

    but the queen is the queen of scotland and called the queen of scotland in scotland. shes also descended more directly from the Scottish Stuarts than the english Tudors. and even more directly from William 3 Stadtholder of Holland, Zeeland, Utrecht, Guelders and Overijssel. and even more directly than that from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. since 1901.

    queen liz is a 5th generation German immigrant. with loose blood ties to Holland and scotland. and very very little english.

  2. #26302
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Unless you're living in the UK or Ireland. Not that you ever cared about anybody suffering.
    Decolonisation and ending the British empire also hurts the people living in the UK. Guess we should continue that too?
    Hell, ending slavery hurted the Dutch economy. Let's bring that back too! "Eigen volk eerst" and more of that fascist bullshit, right?

  3. #26303
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I really don't want to go so far off topic to talk about the pillar box war of the 1950's, and suchlike because I am sure that all the Scots members here will be along soon to claim HM Elizabeth II Queen of England as Queen of Scotland. Lols, or maybe they won't....

    I'm waiting.....tap tap tap

    The points about the EU, Brexit and the NHS stand however...
    How much of that "extra" spending on the NHS is just cost of living rises? By my reckoning, about £21bn. Which means even if Boris hits that target (and once Brexit fucks up the economy, things like that will fly out of the window so fast your head will spin) you are only looking at an extra £11bn. Which is only ~£200m a week. So the best Boris can promise is that 8 years after the bus, it will only be about 40% a lie.

    That particular unicorn may not be dead yet, but it's looking pretty fucking sickly.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
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    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  4. #26304
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    How much of that "extra" spending on the NHS is just cost of living rises? By my reckoning, about £21bn. Which means even if Boris hits that target (and once Brexit fucks up the economy, things like that will fly out of the window so fast your head will spin) you are only looking at an extra £11bn. Which is only ~£200m a week. So the best Boris can promise is that 8 years after the bus, it will only be about 40% a lie.

    That particular unicorn may not be dead yet, but it's looking pretty fucking sickly.
    I will give bojo one bone. He is on the money about hospitals needing to be upgraded with insulation. I've had about 6months of physio after my op and my local hospital still has those 60s style walls and single glazing. They must spend an absolute fortune every winter just heating the place up enough.

  5. #26305
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    I will give bojo one bone. He is on the money about hospitals needing to be upgraded with insulation. I've had about 6months of physio after my op and my local hospital still has those 60s style walls and single glazing. They must spend an absolute fortune every winter just heating the place up enough.
    You won't get any disagreement from me. Infrastructure spending is something that needs to be done, and it gets slashed whenever money gets tight, which is what it has been like for the last 9 years under the Tories. And privatising will make it worse, because as far as companies trying to make a profit go, any spending on things like that comes straight out of RoI and manager bonuses.

    But if Boris is saying something like that, then the first thing I'd be looking at is what companies make insulation, and how long has Boris had shares or been a director. Oh, and how much did they contribute at the last election.

    How anyone can trust a man who somehow managed to spend £50m on a non-existent bridge is beyond me.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  6. #26306
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    You won't get any disagreement from me. Infrastructure spending is something that needs to be done, and it gets slashed whenever money gets tight, which is what it has been like for the last 9 years under the Tories. And privatising will make it worse, because as far as companies trying to make a profit go, any spending on things like that comes straight out of RoI and manager bonuses.

    But if Boris is saying something like that, then the first thing I'd be looking at is what companies make insulation, and how long has Boris had shares or been a director. Oh, and how much did they contribute at the last election.

    How anyone can trust a man who somehow managed to spend £50m on a non-existent bridge is beyond me.
    yea some one some where will be making money. and more money needs investing as well as reducing cost.

    now im defiantly some one who believes that you should always look at how you can improve a system and reduce costs if you want more money and only then look at pumping in more cash. as i firmly believe throwing money at an inefficient system is pointless and detrimental, it the "throw money at a problem and it will go away" belief, but on the flip side the nhs isnt in a the position of playing maintenance, its needs to always be growing at a rate that can support the population, for that you do need investment. i would prefer to see a strategy that couples the two, the major money of labour but with the infrastructure upgrades / insulation and so on.

  7. #26307
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    1. The last English monarch died in 1603, after which the throne of England was inherited by James the King of Scotland. The monarchy has far more German and Scottish blood than English in it.
    1603? I would rather argue for 1066.

    William and his bunch were normans. So either french, norman or scandinavian - but definitely not english.

    Afterwards, the Plantagents? Rather french i'd say.

    Tudors? I mean wales is part of the UK, but the Tudors are not english.

    Stuarts? Scottish.

    The last "real" english king was Harold, until he took and arrow to the eye.

    And even there one could argue, that angels and saxons are germans. While current historians think that earlier historians overestimated the degree the anglo-saxons were replacing the original romano-british population, most of the ruling class was replaced by: germans beginning in the 5th century.... When was the last time england was populated by "real" english? Probably somewhere before 100 AD.

    And even there i could argue that the celtish populaten drove out earlier settlers.

    Just shows how useless this whole concept of "real english/brits/whatever" is in reality.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 2019-12-24 at 04:13 AM.

  8. #26308
    If there's one thing that is annoying it's Labour dragging their feet with Corbyn right now after his SECOND general election loss. I mean I hate the conservatives but they do get one thing right. After each election they ask the leader "Are you Prime minister?" and if the answer is no the follow up is "Well fuck off.". Corbyn should not have been allowed to resign on his own. He should have been thrown out.

    As for monarch nationality. How many generations of Windsors marrying into British families do we need for them to not be German anymore? Last few generations Phillip has been the odd one out.

  9. #26309
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    As for monarch nationality. How many generations of Windsors marrying into British families do we need for them to not be German anymore? Last few generations Phillip has been the odd one out.
    Well, it is not the intermarried blood that is important or even relevant for monarch bloodlines. Having your mainline be german blood is the sort of thing that could've lost you your crown or head to an usurper. But luckily for the Windsors those high days of feudalism and bloodshed over crowns dwindled down just in time.

  10. #26310
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    If there's one thing that is annoying it's Labour dragging their feet with Corbyn right now after his SECOND general election loss. I mean I hate the conservatives but they do get one thing right. After each election they ask the leader "Are you Prime minister?" and if the answer is no the follow up is "Well fuck off.". Corbyn should not have been allowed to resign on his own. He should have been thrown out.
    Give it a rest, it is a universal convention to offer your resignation until such time as there has been an appropriate handover to minimize bureaucratic chaos in the interim.

    I'd add this: Labour lost in 2017 because of people like you bitching, whining and moaning throughout Corbyn's entire time in office. Expect that loyalty to be returned in spades if people like you manage to capture the party. If Keir Starmer or whatever takes over I will not just abstain, I will vote against the Labour candidate. So will most of the current members.

  11. #26311
    If there's one thing that is annoying it's Labour dragging their feet with Corbyn right now after his SECOND general election loss. I mean I hate the conservatives but they do get one thing right. After each election they ask the leader "Are you Prime minister?" and if the answer is no the follow up is "Well fuck off.". Corbyn should not have been allowed to resign on his own. He should have been thrown out.
    Give it a rest, it is a universal convention to offer your resignation until such time as there has been an appropriate handover to minimize bureaucratic chaos in the interim. You just outed yourself as someone who has never been allowed to hold a position of responsibility.

    I'd add this: Labour lost in 2017 because of people like you bitching, whining and moaning in a never-ending tantrum throughout Corbyn's entire time as leader. This is one of a hundred of posts where you are complaining about literally nothing-it is a simple convention amongst all people with class and dignity to stay on to allow a smooth transition of power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I mean I hate the conservatives but they do get one thing right.
    You wouldn't know it from the constant and incessant free propagandizing you did on their behalf. Who exactly did you think would get elected with people like you endlessly criticizing the main opposition leader?
    Last edited by Thathwolp; 2019-12-24 at 09:36 AM.

  12. #26312
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    1603? I would rather argue for 1066.

    William and his bunch were normans. So either french, norman or scandinavian - but definitely not english.

    Afterwards, the Plantagents? Rather french i'd say.

    Tudors? I mean wales is part of the UK, but the Tudors are not english.

    Stuarts? Scottish.

    The last "real" english king was Harold, until he took and arrow to the eye.

    And even there one could argue, that angels and saxons are germans. While current historians think that earlier historians overestimated the degree the anglo-saxons were replacing the original romano-british population, most of the ruling class was replaced by: germans beginning in the 5th century.... When was the last time england was populated by "real" english? Probably somewhere before 100 AD.

    And even there i could argue that the celtish populaten drove out earlier settlers.

    Just shows how useless this whole concept of "real english/brits/whatever" is in reality.
    True, but than Harold was English in as far as English derives from anglish and anglish was the catch all for angle, saxon and jute settlers. But for a few days he was the first and last saxon king to rule all of England.

    But for a truly English king I think you would hae to go pre Roman, pre celt back to the ancient Britons who built Stonehenge.

  13. #26313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    True, but than Harold was English in as far as English derives from anglish and anglish was the catch all for angle, saxon and jute settlers. But for a few days he was the first and last saxon king to rule all of England.

    But for a truly English king I think you would hae to go pre Roman, pre celt back to the ancient Britons who built Stonehenge.
    In that case the last English king was the last Mercian Brettwalda.
    Since Harold was Saxon. A Western Saxon. Wessex.
    - Lars

  14. #26314
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    In that case the last English king was the last Mercian Brettwalda.
    Since Harold was Saxon. A Western Saxon. Wessex.
    There's fair argument that the celts were immigrants.

    The I2-P214 were the first settlers in Britain and are the megalith builders. But they now make up only 4% of the population of England Scotland and Wales, more can be found in Germany 8% and sweden 6% but that I genetic line is almost dead.

    My hapalo group is I2-M223 a sub branch of I2-P214 which is why I find Dribbles rhetoric funny, I have an unbroken y line to the mealith builders in Britain, something only 4% of brits have, as such its very likely Dribbles is an immigrant to me.

  15. #26315
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Got to love you EU fanatics banging on about ethnic purity. Didn't you learn from the last time that got you in trouble? Moderate and tolerant Brexiteers don't look and judge people from their genetic heritage. Someone born in London, England. Lives in London, England. Works in London, England. You know like our Lizzie the Queen of England? Well she is English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    How much of that "extra" spending on the NHS is just cost of living rises? By my reckoning, about £21bn. Which means even if Boris hits that target (and once Brexit fucks up the economy, things like that will fly out of the window so fast your head will spin) you are only looking at an extra £11bn. Which is only ~£200m a week. So the best Boris can promise is that 8 years after the bus, it will only be about 40% a lie.

    That particular unicorn may not be dead yet, but it's looking pretty fucking sickly.
    You lefties never were really any good at maths, probably why Labour borrows and spends too much, passing the debt on to our grandchildren and bankrupts the country everytime it is in power. The Diane Abbot school of arithmetic probably to blame lol

    35bn after 4 years at inflation of 3% is still worth 31bn in real terms. Or almost 600 million a week, far more than the 350 million promised on Boris's bus.

    At this festive time let's all look forward to the benefits and golden years to come of the great Brexit age.

    Not long to go now, Merry Christmas eurochums and tick tock...

  16. #26316
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Got to love you EU fanatics banging on about ethnic purity. Didn't you learn from the last time that got you in trouble? Moderate and tolerant Brexiteers don't look and judge people from their genetic heritage. Someone born in London, England. Lives in London, England. Works in London, England. You know like our Lizzie the Queen of England? Well she is English.



    You lefties never were really any good at maths, probably why Labour borrows and spends too much, passing the debt on to our grandchildren and bankrupts the country everytime it is in power. The Diane Abbot school of arithmetic probably to blame lol

    35bn after 4 years at inflation of 3% is still worth 31bn in real terms. Or almost 600 million a week, far more than the 350 million promised on Boris's bus.

    At this festive time let's all look forward to the benefits and golden years to come of the great Brexit age.

    Not long to go now, Merry Christmas eurochums and tick tock...
    Since I know I can't manage to teach you morals, or logic, or economics, I'll settle for teaching you maths.

    The 2019 budget for the NHS is £129bn. Increase that by 3% a year until 2024 and you get to a shade under £150bn. So if Boris is offering to be spending £35bn more a year by then, £21bn is just covering cost of living effectively. And I'm being kind there and not even taking into account population increases which should mean that it needs to go up even more to maintain the same per capita spend.

    So yes, Boris is putting a big number out that might look impressive to the numerically challenged (or in your case the deliberately disingenuous) but it isn't anything like as good as it seems. And remember a lot can change between now and 2024; this is just an aspirational aim. The bus said we would get £350m a week extra just for leaving the EU. Not maybe a fraction of that 6 years later.

    But this is a government that believes that stopping 19m nurses from leaving is the same as getting 19m new nurses. So this kind of lying is familiar ground for them.

    Oh, and last point. The lefties are the ones that bankrupt the country? When the Tories have added a trillion pounds of debt in the last 9 years? You haven't got a fucking leg to stand on there dribbles, and you know it.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  17. #26317
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Got to love you EU fanatics banging on about ethnic purity. Didn't you learn from the last time that got you in trouble? Moderate and tolerant Brexiteers don't look and judge people from their genetic heritage. Someone born in London, England. Lives in London, England. Works in London, England. You know like our Lizzie the Queen of England? Well she is English.



    You lefties never were really any good at maths, probably why Labour borrows and spends too much, passing the debt on to our grandchildren and bankrupts the country everytime it is in power. The Diane Abbot school of arithmetic probably to blame lol

    35bn after 4 years at inflation of 3% is still worth 31bn in real terms. Or almost 600 million a week, far more than the 350 million promised on Boris's bus.

    At this festive time let's all look forward to the benefits and golden years to come of the great Brexit age.

    Not long to go now, Merry Christmas eurochums and tick tock...
    Funny how you talk about overspending and debt while praising Boris's 35 billion. Where do you think that money comes from considering how thoroughly debunked the bus is. It sure isn't EU money that has been magically freed up.

    You sound like a US Republican, complaining how the other side isn't fiscally conservative while you spend spend spend on your own projects.
    Do as I say, not as I do.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #26318
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Since I know I can't manage to teach you morals, or logic, or economics, I'll settle for teaching you maths.

    The 2019 budget for the NHS is £129bn. Increase that by 3% a year until 2024 and you get to a shade under £150bn. So if Boris is offering to be spending £35bn more a year by then, £21bn is just covering cost of living effectively. And I'm being kind there and not even taking into account population increases which should mean that it needs to go up even more to maintain the same per capita spend.

    So yes, Boris is putting a big number out that might look impressive to the numerically challenged (or in your case the deliberately disingenuous) but it isn't anything like as good as it seems. And remember a lot can change between now and 2024; this is just an aspirational aim. The bus said we would get £350m a week extra just for leaving the EU. Not maybe a fraction of that 6 years later.

    But this is a government that believes that stopping 19m nurses from leaving is the same as getting 19m new nurses. So this kind of lying is familiar ground for them.

    Oh, and last point. The lefties are the ones that bankrupt the country? When the Tories have added a trillion pounds of debt in the last 9 years? You haven't got a fucking leg to stand on there dribbles, and you know it.
    If I accept your £129bn NHS budget will you accept my CPI (no one uses RPI any more) over the period of 2% not 3? (It could and has been much less recently and I'm being very generous to you source)

    It's Christmas let's compromise. So four years from now £129bn becomes £139bn to cover cost of living increases.

    Boris's proposal, thanks to Brexit, would increase it more over the four years from £129bn + £35bn = £164bn-£139bn = £25bn pa real terms increase in NHS spending. Still £480 million a week more and far greater than his battle bus promise. The Boris bus was not a lie as you and all remainers still spreading misinformation well know.

    And never forget this increase could have been achieved far earlier, probably three years ago, if remainers hadn't subverted democracy and let us leave the damn EU.

    Current NHS funding starvation is all on remainers and the EU.

  19. #26319
    Promising to spend money he doesn't have doesn't make a lie true.

    And how can the current lack of NHS funds be the fault of anyone but the people in government for the last 9 years?
    and the EU? just lol.

    I've heard more sane arguments from Trump supporters.

    Budgets rose by 1.5 per cent each year on average in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since the NHS was established.
    Gee I wonder who was in power during that time. Couldn't possibly be the Conservatives.
    Last edited by Gorsameth; 2019-12-24 at 01:07 PM.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #26320
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Speaking as one of those Remainers, I can tell you what I'm going to be doing for the next 5 years. I'll be waiting (breath as unbaited as it can get) to see all those unicorns you promised us. To see all the economic and social benefits that we were absolutely told we would get if only we just got Brexit done. If we see them, then maybe you'll get an apology out of me.

    But more likely what we will see is an utter train-wreck of a "solution" in desparate search for the problems it was supposed to fix. The country getting worse as a result of how this lazy feckless PM manages the whole process. And all those right-wing fuckwits that pushed the whole thing through looking for new excuses and new targets for why it failed.

    I never wanted this, but at least we get to see Brexit in all its glory. You can't hide behind it not being done right. You can't hide behind it being managed by Remainers. You are going to get the Brexit you wanted, and when it fucks up you get to own the responsibility for it. It wasn't my choice for the outcome, but at least it stops you all sitting on the sidelines whinging about how good it could have been. We all get to see how good an idea Brexit was, and you'll have nowhere to hide.
    I feel for you. I do hope Dribbles' viewpoints on Remainers arent a common occurance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I really don't care, in the end a Brexit is a good thing as long as it weakens the EU.
    Less neoliberalism in the world, less imperialism.. That can only be seen as a good thing.
    Why weaken the EU? we got no imperalialism since WW2... then again.. russian trollbot.
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