View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26341
    Quote Originally Posted by YTrasis View Post
    You are one of a large number of europhiles who have a strong general argument in principle and somehow manage to lose it consistently by using the worst possible or least convincing arguments. The UK is not going to suffer that much outside the EU generally. There are existing countries outside the EU in Europe which do fine. There will likely be transitional problems-but the Tories don't care and the voters don't either unless it directly affects them. The country will be unbalanced economy with almost all the wealth going upwards-but again the Tories and the British public do not care.

    This line of argument is almost designed to allow the Brexiteers, who are wrong about almost everything, to crow in victory about something which was never really doubt in the first place. Just maybe think before opening your mouth in future, this isn't a wrestling match where your opinion will be vindicated in some emotionally satisfying conclusion.
    Those countries outside the EU in Europe haven't spend the last 46 years growing their economy to work within the structure of the EU.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #26342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Those countries outside the EU in Europe haven't spend the last 46 years growing their economy to work within the structure of the EU.
    also begs the question which countries are outside of EU and not affected from it.
    23 countries outside of EU, but 4 are EFTA and closely with EU. additional Andorra, Monaco, San Marino and Vatican are tiny states surrounded by EU and even use EURO.
    leaves those 15: Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Georgia (yes, a state outside of USA !), Kazakhstan, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Russia, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine and Belarus.
    some of them applied for EU membership already, others are more or less obedient (because part of former soviet union) satellites of Russia.

  3. #26343
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    They can, however, apply for re-admission (and lose the billions of Euros in exceptions and rebates that they wouldn't normally have got). Oh, and join Schengen and the Euro, of course.

    To borrow a turn of phrase from the currently-banned dribbles: tick tock, counting down the days until they come grovelling back to Brussels begging to be let back in.
    Not gonna happen anytime soon. If anything I've learned about the British Bulldog by now it's that its stubbornness far, far outweighs its intelligence. I wouldn't even be surprised if Remainers swing to an anti-EU stance after the propaganda wave of how the EU is being mean hits the streets. Considering that even many Remainers don't understand the EU, that is...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    also begs the question which countries are outside of EU and not affected from it.
    23 countries outside of EU, but 4 are EFTA and closely with EU. additional Andorra, Monaco, San Marino and Vatican are tiny states surrounded by EU and even use EURO.
    leaves those 15: Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Georgia (yes, a state outside of USA !), Kazakhstan, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Russia, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine and Belarus.
    some of them applied for EU membership already, others are more or less obedient (because part of former soviet union) satellites of Russia.
    Kazakhstan is European only by the farthest stretch of the imagination. Same for Azerbaijan. Just because they're part of UEFA doesn't make them European.
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  4. #26344
    Even the remainer camp in the UK have never been all that sold on anything more involved than the deal they already had.

    If accepting things such as Schengen and the Euro is on the table as a requirement to re-join, it wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if the Brits are out permanently after this.

  5. #26345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    ....


    Kazakhstan is European only by the farthest stretch of the imagination. Same for Azerbaijan. Just because they're part of UEFA doesn't make them European.
    i used the german list here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_...cht-EU-Staaten
    for Kaz it is like Turkey, where a tiny bit of area is in europe, so the whole country is counted in.
    otherwise everything north of Iran is europe, because the natural border is set in Ural, which is situated even more east than Caucaus region with Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan.
    by this definition europe is graced with Kalmykia too, now the only main buddhist territory in europe.
    Last edited by ranzino; 2019-12-28 at 07:29 PM.

  6. #26346
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Those countries outside the EU in Europe haven't spend the last 46 years growing their economy to work within the structure of the EU.
    Plus of those European countries not in the EU you have

    3 in the EU in all but name anyway with very minor differences (Switzerland/Norway/Iceland. Though with Switzerland you still can be stopped at the border for hours which is damaging for Just in time delivery necessities)
    Russia
    Russian Puppet of Belarus
    Everyone else being desperate to join.

  7. #26347
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    Seems the tories already started finding bidders for parts of the NHS, having with the tories, Brits?
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  8. #26348
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryiuopla View Post
    Yes they are not in the EU but it doesn't count-for reasons....persuasive...
    I would have to look upthe details, but they are part of one or more various EU constructs: from judicial to trade zone and custom office borders.

    The UK rejected all those alternatives and thus existing situations with pre-existing regulations because it still felt too much like being part of the EU... which is basically what that is if you are in one of those 3 countries. They dont get a voice at the table but have to follow the rules decided by the EU whether that is on judicial or economic matters...

    Chances are almost 200% likely that the UK will eventually end up in such a situation too. The gravity of the EU trade bloc and it's capital is too strong to escape....
    Last edited by Rochana; 2019-12-30 at 06:43 AM.

  9. #26349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    I would have to look upthe details, but they are part of one or more various EU constructs: from judicial to trade zone and custom office borders.

    The UK rejected all those alternatives and thus existing situations with pre-existing regulations because it still felt too much like being part of the EU... which is basically what that is if you are in one of those 3 countries. They dont get a voice at the table but have to follow the rules decided by the EU whether that is on judicial or economic matters...

    Chances are almost 200% likely that the UK will eventually end up in such a situation too. The gravity of the EU trade bloc and it's capital is too strong to escape....
    Iceland decided to stop their application to the EU i think but should still be in EFTA
    Norway and Switzerland are in Efta
    As is Liechtenstein

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...de_Association

  10. #26350
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    so what's the current status? what are the monkeys in suits doing in the u.k parliament? Have they voted on anything yet or are they stil doing jack shit?

  11. #26351
    Christmas recess from Dec 20 to Jan 7th
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #26352
    Sir Keir Starmer for leader of Labour?

    Wtf is this guy... 6 doctorates (in law and economics) and knighted.

    I dont think I've ever seen someone with so many different phd degrees. He looks like he belongs in the elite division of MI6 or something...

  13. #26353
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Sir Keir Starmer for leader of Labour?

    Wtf is this guy... 6 doctorates (in law and economics) and knighted.

    I dont think I've ever seen someone with so many different phd degrees. He looks like he belongs in the elite division of MI6 or something...
    Just wait until Murdoch is done with him.
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  14. #26354
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Just wait until Murdoch is done with him.
    He won't touch him if he is a blairite.
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  15. #26355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzit View Post
    Yes, he wouldn't have any reason to. Starmer and most of the parliamentary Labour party are more right-wing than the Tories on most issues.

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    Interesting to note most of his high-profile legal cases were either losses or at best resulted in inconclusive judgements. So he must have got the Knighthood for currying favor with the powerful.
    he was awarded a knighthood in 2014 for "services to law and criminal justice" by way of appointment to Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath (KCB) in the 2014 New Year Honours (says Wikipedia)

  16. #26356
    Here we go, the whole "Anyone to the right of Trotsky is a Blairite therefore evil." comments are back again during the labour leadership, proving the far left would rather cry and stomp their feet than actually be able to win elections.

  17. #26357
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Here we go, the whole "Anyone to the right of Trotsky is a Blairite therefore evil." comments are back again during the labour leadership, proving the far left would rather cry and stomp their feet than actually be able to win elections.
    I believe it is a valid concern to be opposed to wolves in sheeps clothes. I believe politicians should be beholden to the core ideology of their party instead of turning their backs on it.

    Whether this new dude is or isn't though that I can't draw a conclusion on yet. I would first start off with investigating what he worked towards in his past.

  18. #26358
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Here we go, the whole "Anyone to the right of Trotsky is a Blairite therefore evil." comments are back again during the labour leadership, proving the far left would rather cry and stomp their feet than actually be able to win elections.
    Blair can easily be traced back to one of the primary reasons that the red wall crumbled in the north. The voters there don't believe they can trust Labour to look out for them precisely because Labour didn't do very much for them in the 13 years they were in power. Blair and his crew were too busy being "intensely relaxed about people getting filthly rich" to worry too much about the ordinary working class people they should be primarily representing as a Labour government. Too worried about the city of London to concern themselves with the decline and decay of the north.

    It's very easy to forget that the share of the vote fell every election that Blair ran. The party didn't suddenly decline once Blair left, it was declining the entire time he was there. What we are seeing today is part of the fallout of that.
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  19. #26359
    Who cares about labour they have no power, they could make a donkey the leading candidate (the angry burner would then call the donkey a blairite), they cant even mobilise the street.

  20. #26360
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    Who cares about labour they have no power, they could make a donkey the leading candidate (the angry burner would then call the donkey a blairite), they cant even mobilise the street.
    Is ctd back?

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