View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26821
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Ah so you're one of those internet mind-readers. Good to know.
    There isn't much to read frankly. I know enough about you-you people threw the homeless, the disabled and the sick under a bus for some tabloid editor's fantasy of national self-determination. I really just want you to get cancer and die like the rest of you union jack waving little turds.

  2. #26822
    Pandaren Monk Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Hmm. It almost sounds like you are saying that the stronger party in those sorts of negotiations is going to have the upper hand to get the best deal. Interesting.

    Now, we were supposed to be discussing Brexit in this thread, weren't we? What's the next stage of that going to be? Oh yes, we're going to negotiate with a stronger party and get a really good deal.
    What makes you think that the UK is that much weaker than the EU? Oh sure, if you just look at the raw numbers, eg population or GDP, yes the EU is clearly the stronger side. But it's not nearly that simple. The UK has an excellent defence industry, is growing well whereas the EU is more or less reliant on a tottering German economy, and wants a lot of stuff (eg financial services, fishing rights, tech sector stuff, access to our markets for German cars etc) from the UK. Remember, the EU-UK trade imbalance is in the UK's favour when it comes to negotiations: we cut off their access to our markets and they lose more than we do.

    Still, putting all the details aside, what is the worst case scenario? A WTO deal? Oh no - the sky is falling ! Seriously, it wouldn't be that bad. Maybe not ideal - both sides would lose out on trade in such a scenario after all - but the fact that this would be the worst case scenario means that if the EU tries to put the screws on we can walk away & do much, much better than if we signed up to a bad deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I just hope they'll respect Scotlands wish for freedom and independence as much as they argued for their own
    We did & they voted to stick around .
    Still not tired of winning.

  3. #26823
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    This way you own the results.
    Don't be so sure on that front. I've already seen people, including members of the government, blame the EU for things that are 100% the UK's fault.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    What makes you think that the UK is that much weaker than the EU?
    The UK is like a tiny fish swimming in the sea that is the rest of the world.

  4. #26824
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Remember, the EU-UK trade imbalance is in the UK's favour when it comes to negotiations: we cut off their access to our markets and they lose more than we do.
    45% of your exports go to the EU.

    I can't believe that you think you're having the upper hand in negotiations where you are the one who is about to lose half its customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Still, putting all the details aside, what is the worst case scenario? A WTO deal? Oh no - the sky is falling ! Seriously, it wouldn't be that bad. Maybe not ideal - both sides would lose out on trade in such a scenario after all - but the fact that this would be the worst case scenario means that if the EU tries to put the screws on we can walk away & do much, much better than if we signed up to a bad deal.
    You don't know what a WTO deal is, explained by the fact that you call it a WTO deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    We did & they voted to stick around .
    They voted to stick around if the UK stays in the EU. Remember?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  5. #26825
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post

    Still, putting all the details aside, what is the worst case scenario? A WTO deal? Oh no - the sky is falling ! Seriously, it wouldn't be that bad. Maybe not ideal - both sides would lose out on trade in such a scenario after all - but the fact that this would be the worst case scenario means that if the EU tries to put the screws on we can walk away & do much, much better than if we signed up to a bad deal.
    OK genius perhaps you can explain us to how:

    1. Tearing up 700 pages of legislation is a good thing.
    2. How massively increasing the amount of paperwork for every import or export is a good thing.
    3. How having no leverage in any negotiation with any one other than that of the UK is a good thing.
    4. The massive depreciation in the value of our currency is a good thing.
    5. How putting in charge a group of idiot public schoolboys who have never done anything other than burn £50 notes in the faces of the homeless, is a good thing.

    I do not think you understand any of these things. I think you will continue to use vague language to describe a brexit magic land that is less plausible than my little pony world, like the tabloid newspapers who are clearly controlling your brain.
    Last edited by Fardringham; 2020-02-09 at 05:33 PM.

  6. #26826
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    What makes you think that the UK is that much weaker than the EU? Oh sure, if you just look at the raw numbers, eg population or GDP, yes the EU is clearly the stronger side. But it's not nearly that simple. The UK has an excellent defence industry, is growing well whereas the EU is more or less reliant on a tottering German economy, and wants a lot of stuff (eg financial services, fishing rights, tech sector stuff, access to our markets for German cars etc) from the UK. Remember, the EU-UK trade imbalance is in the UK's favour when it comes to negotiations: we cut off their access to our markets and they lose more than we do.

    Still, putting all the details aside, what is the worst case scenario? A WTO deal? Oh no - the sky is falling ! Seriously, it wouldn't be that bad. Maybe not ideal - both sides would lose out on trade in such a scenario after all - but the fact that this would be the worst case scenario means that if the EU tries to put the screws on we can walk away & do much, much better than if we signed up to a bad deal.
    Over 3 years later and Brexit supporters are still sticking with the "but who will buy their Mercedes?" argument. Also packed into two paragraphs of questionable arguments are; a lack of understanding of WTO. A lack of understanding of how trade works (have you been listening to Trump on this matter?) and some pretty poor maths.

    The EU represents 45% of our exports at the moment. We represent 8% of the EU exports. Which side will be better placed to cope with a complete and total cut-off of trade between those two entities? Especially bearing in mind that if we did actually do that, all our JIT industry would relocate quicker than you can say "oh look, another dead fucking unicorn".

    But please, keep going. You are single-handedly confirming pretty much everything that has been said about Brexit supporters on this thread and beyond.
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  7. #26827
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post

    We did & they voted to stick around .
    With the “leave the UK and you’ll leave the EU” argument. Not valid anymore and Scotlands desire to self-determine if they want to be part of the EU, is more relevant than ever.

    The WTO “deal” you speak of, is what 3rd world countries trade through, it’s the worst scenario. Also the idea that the loss of the UK will hurt the EU the most is laughable.

    This week, Boris Johnson gets yelled at by Trump and Japan makes it clear that they want better terms in a trade deal with the UK than they got with the EU.

    Desperation is not a position of power.
    Last edited by Crispin; 2020-02-09 at 05:52 PM.

  8. #26828
    Pandaren Monk Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    45% of your exports go to the EU.
    Yes, but the balance of trade is in our favour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I can't believe that you think you're having the upper hand in negotiations where you are the one who is about to lose half its customers.
    Never gonna happen. No deal = WTO rules take over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    They voted to stick around if the UK stays in the EU. Remember?
    There was literally nothing about the EU in the referendum question. Or are you trying to imply Scots are too stupid not to see that they could vote to remain in the UK & then the UK could vote to leave?

    = = =

    Quote Originally Posted by Fardringham View Post
    1. Tearing up 700 pages of legislation is a good thing.
    If it's EU legislation I can't see how it'd be a BAD thing to dump it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Fardringham View Post
    2. How massively increasing the amount of paperwork for every import or export is a good thing.
    Oh come on, you can do better than that. It could be an infinitely large increase in paperwork if there was none beforehand!

    Seriously, we manage just fine with imports from outside the EU. I'm sure we'll cope with EU stuff too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fardringham View Post
    3. How having no leverage in any negotiation with any one other than that of the UK is a good thing.
    Just not true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fardringham View Post
    4. The massive depreciation in the value of our currency is a good thing.
    Helps exports, and probably only temporary anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fardringham View Post
    5. How putting in charge a group of idiot public schoolboys who have never done anything other than burn £50 notes in the faces of the homeless, is a good thing.
    Because Cameron gave us the Brexit referendum .

    Quote Originally Posted by Fardringham View Post
    like the tabloid newspapers who are clearly controlling your brain.
    Beats the Grauniad any day ...

    = = =

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Over 3 years later and Brexit supporters are still sticking with the "but who will buy their Mercedes?" argument.
    If it's a valid argument why drop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    a lack of understanding of WTO
    Uhm, the EU can under WTO rules slap a bunch of tariffs etc on us... which is what I've been talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    The EU represents 45% of our exports at the moment. We represent 8% of the EU exports. Which side will be better placed to cope with a complete and total cut-off of trade between those two entities?
    We're talking about a no-deal scenario, not WW3.

    = = =

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    With the “leave the UK and you’ll leave the EU” argument. Not valid anymore
    Valid then though. Salmond made a big song and dance about it, so of course the pro-UK side would respond with "no, he's a lying sack of shit" because, well, he was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    The WTO “deal” you speak of, is what 3rd world countries trade through, it’s the worst scenario.
    3rd world countries like the USA you mean? Or Japan, China et al?

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/i.../eu-trade-map/

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Also the idea that the loss of the UK will hurt the EU the most is laughable.
    The balance of trade is in our favour. Therefore in absolute terms the EU will be hurt more. In proportional terms, no, but all the individual firms selling stuff to the UK won't care nearly as much about the big EU-vs-UK picture as about their own bottom line.
    Still not tired of winning.

  9. #26829
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Really, the Netherlands eh, I'd love for you to back that one up.
    Compare the Netherlands attitude/feelings pre ww1 with current one. Pre-ww1 (you might say up until EEC) the habit was to remain neutral, whilst being a voice of reason. They knew there place. Currently, under leadership of Rutte (Even before him), the goverment has been... pointing fingers at other countries (*1) and telling other nations what they should/must do. (lost some great posts due to that (*2)) You could claim this has nothing to do with arrogance and thinking they got a colonial empire still.

    You would be right. But I think its more an issue of nationalism. A scared feeling from the goverment against the EU diversity, might have created a type of nationalism, which has found a way to leverage a certain revery towards the Dutch Golden Age. Resulting in a level of misguided arrogance towards others. (pointing fingers and telling others what they should do) It does not help when your PM has been a history teacher, with a certain scepticism towards the EU. The man actually claimed we had to return to our VoC mentality. That. Kind. Of. Attitude. Is. Arrogant. And extremely ignorant towards what the VoC, and its paymasters did. (*3)

    Another factor I would say is being a founder of EEC and getting a number of prestigous posts might have made the Dutch Goverment think they had more influence and power then they actually should have. Maybe thinking that because they had a colonial empire once they were super important. Mind you, I strongly think this is more of a recent thing, perhaps from the last decade or so. (*4)

    If you have a different viewpoint, or why you think im wrong, let me know. My viewpoints might be wrong, I might think im right, by virtue of sitting near the fire. (ie: Im dutch) But that tends to make one blind for whats near. and having another eye to see and set me straight is great.

    By the way, the bracketed things are mostly extra tadbits/my personal opinions and my viewpoints of how I see things. I kept it as neutral as possible, specially point 1, and point 3. I could get banned if I'd go really deep into it. (specially *3). However if you feel im wrong, or want to unleash the beast, feel free to PM me. No reason to derail this thread too much.

    [*1. A rather big habit I noticed, and one I find extremely frustrating, part of this ties with *2. They pointed fingers at Poland, Hungary, Eastern Europe, even France. And this Europe alone. Seen them point fingers at Israel. Fucking hypocritical in my eyes. (Remember Staten-Brabant! 300 years of occupied terrority)
    *2. See 1. Timmermans was basically poised to become the President of the EU, but many many countries hate the Netherlands and Timmermans due to forementioned finger pointing, and hammering on austerity.
    *3. Burn nutmeg trees, murder everyone, occupy Staats-Brabant and try to force to convert (admittely everyone did), tax that region like mad... for 300 years. And yes, im sour about that 300 years thing. And yes its probaly closer to 200 years. From the end of the 80 Years War - War of Dutch Independance, until Napoleon. After that, things did get better. Its not something I'd want to have myself associate with.
    *4. I did not notice anything before that time, maybe it was there tho, but 10 years ago I didnt care about politics enough to notice anything.]
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  10. #26830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I can't believe that you think you're having the upper hand in negotiations where you are the one who is about to lose half its customers
    Never gonna happen. No deal = WTO rules take over.
    Which means WTO rules increase the cost of our exports, and suddenly people decide they don't want to buy X from the UK anymore now it's more expensive than from a different country in the EU.

    It's always depressing why people try to use WTO as an answer so something when the very process of doing so demonstrates they don't even know what WTO is. Is't like Mega Drive fans yelling about their consoles Blast Processing ability >.>

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    We did & they voted to stick around .
    Scotland voted to remain part of the UK and the UK, the 2016 Brexit referendum has now invalidated the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum and it's only right that they be allowed to revisit the decision now the UK government has changed the terms.

    The UK's existing membership of the EU was the remain campaigns biggest selling point for remaining part of the EU and was responsible for swinging the vote in favour of continued UK membership, if the Brexit ref had taken place first then Scotland would have already left the UK by now.

  11. #26831
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Yes, but the balance of trade is in our favour.
    No, it is not unless you want to tell us that the UK suddenly wants to change its habits and stops importing stuff they want. The problem with being an island in the north atlantic ocean just off the coast of Europe is that pretty much everything apart from Europe is fucking far away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Never gonna happen. No deal = WTO rules take over.
    That means you are going to have a harder time selling, aka losing customers. Customers usually aren't too keen on paying more for stuff they can get elsewhere. Now do tell, what exactly is the UK exporting that can't come from some other place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    There was literally nothing about the EU in the referendum question. Or are you trying to imply Scots are too stupid not to see that they could vote to remain in the UK & then the UK could vote to leave?
    True, I meant, they voted to stick around because else they'd have to leave the EU. I guess you see what has changed now compared to then.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  12. #26832
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Valid then though. Salmond made a big song and dance about it, so of course the pro-UK side would respond with "no, he's a lying sack of shit" because, well, he was.


    3rd world countries like the USA you mean? Or Japan, China et al?

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/i.../eu-trade-map/


    The balance of trade is in our favour. Therefore in absolute terms the EU will be hurt more. In proportional terms, no, but all the individual firms selling stuff to the UK won't care nearly as much about the big EU-vs-UK picture as about their own bottom line.
    Exactly, valid then, not now, ergo a new Scottish referendum is in place.

    The US has several trade deals in place, as do Japan and China. The UK does not. Somehow you'll try to get trade deals in place with the EU, Japan, Australia and the US before 2021


    I'd love to see how you come to that conclusion other than "cus I say". In the end the whole "who'll hurt more" approach is stupid, it's a loss on both sides no argument, but the EU is an economic powerhouse, the UK is not a comparison whatsoever, the US and China is.

  13. #26833
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Really, the Netherlands eh, I'd love for you to back that one up.
    The Netherlands have been pretending to be good Eurochums for ages whilst hiding behind the now non existent UK veto. Without the UK veto backing these smaller nations interests, orphans I believe the EU unofficially call them now their UK Daddy has gone, they have no chance on their own of moderating the French/German power struggle for overall control of the EU and ever closer union.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Exactly, valid then, not now, ergo a new Scottish referendum is in place.

    The US has several trade deals in place, as do Japan and China. The UK does not. Somehow you'll try to get trade deals in place with the EU, Japan, Australia and the US before 2021


    I'd love to see how you come to that conclusion other than "cus I say". In the end the whole "who'll hurt more" approach is stupid, it's a loss on both sides no argument, but the EU is an economic powerhouse, the UK is not a comparison whatsoever, the US and China is.
    In case you hadn't noticed the EU's share of world GDP fell off a cliff just a week ago. The UK is interested in the growth hungry 83% of global trade, not the stagnant ever decreasing EU minority of 17%. To describe the EU as an economic powerhouse now is laughable.


  14. #26834
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    In case you hadn't noticed the EU's share of world GDP fell off a cliff just a week ago. The UK is interested in the growth hungry 83% of global trade, not the stagnant ever decreasing EU minority of 17%. To describe the EU as an economic powerhouse now is laughable.
    You do know your chart shows no statistically significant effect from Brexit?

  15. #26835
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Over 3 years later and Brexit supporters are still sticking with the "but who will buy their Mercedes?" argument. Also packed into two paragraphs of questionable arguments are; a lack of understanding of WTO. A lack of understanding of how trade works (have you been listening to Trump on this matter?) and some pretty poor maths.

    The EU represents 45% of our exports at the moment. We represent 8% of the EU exports. Which side will be better placed to cope with a complete and total cut-off of trade between those two entities? Especially bearing in mind that if we did actually do that, all our JIT industry would relocate quicker than you can say "oh look, another dead fucking unicorn".

    But please, keep going. You are single-handedly confirming pretty much everything that has been said about Brexit supporters on this thread and beyond.
    You don't listen. His argument is that if the EU muscles its way in these negotiations, the UK would lose 45% of its customer base and be left in ruins, making the EU feel bad. Of course this means that the EU can't do what it does to everyone else and will concede everything to the UK. Because, as everyone ought to know, the EU really only exists to further the interests of the UK, and the UK only.

    Please. Get with the program. Threatening to shoot your own foot is the best negotiating technique when you know that the world revolves around your wellbeing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    With the “leave the UK and you’ll leave the EU” argument. Not valid anymore and Scotlands desire to self-determine if they want to be part of the EU, is more relevant than ever.

    The WTO “deal” you speak of, is what 3rd world countries trade through, it’s the worst scenario. Also the idea that the loss of the UK will hurt the EU the most is laughable.

    This week, Boris Johnson gets yelled at by Trump and Japan makes it clear that they want better terms in a trade deal with the UK than they got with the EU.

    Desperation is not a position of power.
    Just so everyone's clear, the vast majority of third world countries doesn't deal through the WTO platform but has trade agreements in place, being negotiated or about to be signed. NOBODY wants the WTO platform.

    This is a map of EU trade agreements. Everyone with a colour has some sort of agreement going, the only guys doing WTO are the ones in grey:




    Even most of Africa doesn't like WTO. But here comes the mighty UK, trying to convince everyone and their dog that WTO is the bees knees.
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  16. #26836
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The Netherlands have been pretending to be good Eurochums for ages whilst hiding behind the now non existent UK veto. Without the UK veto backing these smaller nations interests, orphans I believe the EU unofficially call them now their UK Daddy has gone, they have no chance on their own of moderating the French/German power struggle for overall control of the EU and ever closer union.

    oh Dribbles, you might be wrong, Netherlands always have been eurosceptic to a certain point, you've seen how many times they voted against further intregration? That isnt Eurochumness, thats Euro-sceptic.
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  17. #26837
    Pandaren Monk Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Which means WTO rules increase the cost of our exports, and suddenly people decide they don't want to buy X from the UK anymore now it's more expensive than from a different country in the EU.
    Sometimes, sure. On the other hand, if I really want my cheddar or Yorkshire tea or whatever it is, I can always pay more. There are plenty of reasons for continuing to buy from a country even after tariffs go up against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    the 2016 Brexit referendum has now invalidated the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum
    Bwahahahahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    No, it is not unless you want to tell us that the UK suddenly wants to change its habits and stops importing stuff they want.
    We did when we JOINED the EU. "Oh no, you can keep having New Zealand lamb" (etc etc etc) they lied. We cut ourselves off from a huge amount of trade with the Commonwealth when we joined the EU, now we can take it up again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    The problem with being an island in the north atlantic ocean just off the coast of Europe is that pretty much everything apart from Europe is fucking far away.
    It worked in the age of sail, it'll work in the age of container ships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    That means you are going to have a harder time selling, aka losing customers.
    Losing customers =/= losing half of your customers. See the point I was originally responding to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Exactly, valid then, not now, ergo a new Scottish referendum is in place.
    As I asked Mayhem, are you saying the Scots are too stupid to realise it was a risk if they voted to remain in the UK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    The US has several trade deals in place, as do Japan and China.
    Are you looking at the same map as I am? Because all I'm seeing is "potential" trade agreements, as opposed to actual ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    The UK does not. Somehow you'll try to get trade deals in place with the EU, Japan, Australia and the US before 2021
    Sounds like some solid, ambitious targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I'd love to see how you come to that conclusion other than "cus I say".
    https://researchbriefings.parliament...mmary/CBP-7851

    £66bn trade deficit with the EU. As to individual companies caring more for the bottom line than a UK-vs-EU trade war, do you have any evidence to suggest that said companies would not be rationally self-interested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    the EU is an economic powerhouse, the UK is not a comparison whatsoever, the US and China is.
    The EU is a paper tiger because of all the internal divisions. Yes, the GDP figures are impressive - up there with the USA & China - but it's really not that simple. France is struggling with the yellow vests protests (still!), Germany is tottering, the southern European countries are all too often in dire straits (eg 14% overall unemployment in Spain, or ~32% for youth unemployment), there's issues over things like oil/gas supplies from Russia, the Visegrad countries are increasingly trying to do their own thing due to Merkel's invaders, Salvini is poised to take over in Italy (and he's not exactly a fan of things like the Euro)... I mean, it's not great once you get beyond the surface layer. Remember too, that unlike the USA, China, or Japan, the EU is not an even vaguely homogeneous polity, so there are going to be plenty of divisions for the UK to exploit.

    Finally, there's the issue of specialisation. Yeah, sure, the EU still has something like 6 times the GDP of the UK... but places like Frankfurt or Paris are just laughable competitors to the financial colossus of London, and that won't change for years at best. Then there's the UK's North Sea oil & gas (talk about a strategic good...), and medicines. You don't think these sectors are going to be of some concern to the EU? Remember too that non-European financial services for example aren't nearly as practical as London because of little things like time zone differences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    This is a map of EU trade agreements. Everyone with a colour has some sort of agreement going, the only guys doing WTO are the ones in grey
    Yellow =/= trade agreement in place, just being negotiated, so for WTO terms applying to trade, yellow = grey. Also, there's a divergence between the official EU map I showed (eg trade agreement with Japan not yet implemented) and yours (where it is implemented).
    Still not tired of winning.

  18. #26838
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    oh Dribbles, you might be wrong, Netherlands always have been eurosceptic to a certain point, you've seen how many times they voted against further intregration? That isnt Eurochumness, thats Euro-sceptic.
    I'm terrible at understanding, granted, but isn't that what he just said. They were Eurosceptic but could leave all the stigma safely to the UK veto...
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  19. #26839
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    We did when we JOINED the EU. "Oh no, you can keep having New Zealand lamb" (etc etc etc) they lied. We cut ourselves off from a huge amount of trade with the Commonwealth when we joined the EU, now we can take it up again.
    What are you talking about? In 2015 the UK imported 70% of lamb from New Zealand. You did not cut yourself off from anything, you bumbling buffoon don't know anything about your trading history. Fun fact, 95% of UK lamb are exported to the EU, well guess what you are proposing to lose right about now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    It worked in the age of sail, it'll work in the age of container ships.
    Do you know what price increase means?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Losing customers =/= losing half of your customers. See the point I was originally responding to.
    You were the one talking about losing customers, I just explained to you the shares and its impact you seemed to not be able to grasp, for some reason 8% is larger than 45% in your mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  20. #26840
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The Netherlands have been pretending to be good Eurochums for ages whilst hiding behind the now non existent UK veto. Without the UK veto backing these smaller nations interests, orphans I believe the EU unofficially call them now their UK Daddy has gone, they have no chance on their own of moderating the French/German power struggle for overall control of the EU and ever closer union.



    In case you hadn't noticed the EU's share of world GDP fell off a cliff just a week ago. The UK is interested in the growth hungry 83% of global trade, not the stagnant ever decreasing EU minority of 17%. To describe the EU as an economic powerhouse now is laughable.

    In case you hadnt noticed, the UK only left on paper, you're practicly still in the union. But i love that you use a site titled "Pro-Brexit facts, that's hilarious!
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    £66bn trade deficit with the EU. As to individual companies caring more for the bottom line than a UK-vs-EU trade war, do you have any evidence to suggest that said companies would not be rationally self-interested?
    Bravo for taking the Trump route on evaluating economies. The EU is a paper tiger because of internal division? Countries disagree, it's not new. Heck the US and China has internal division, you're not viewing them as paper tigers.

    But thanks for proving that your arguments arent arguments.

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