View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26921
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Did you forget that practically none of these countries trade solely on WTO roles, either, and have other trade agreements to fall back on? The UK does not, and won't given that Boris has indicated no agreement with him or the English are worth anything more than paper.

    Turns out when you trade solely on WTO roles their say is disproportionate on your trade. Your fault, not the EU's. Y'all could have had a customs union.
    I have to say, the mean side of me quite enjoys the realisation of some people just now learning how shit WTO rules actually are. I mean, they were told but, damned if they don't have to find out by themselves to actually let it sink in.
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  2. #26922
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I have to say, the mean side of me quite enjoys the realisation of some people just now learning how shit WTO rules actually are. I mean, they were told but, damned if they don't have to find out by themselves to actually let it sink in.
    I think we hit peak comedy with the "I hope you've learned your lesson about buying EU goods since the UK will just delay their transit across the Atlantic" when the obvious outcome is that these companies are just going to start routing shipping directly through continent. Or Ireland.

    Honestly I will confess some surprise at BoJo actually reneging on this WA considering getting it passed brought down a government and that doing so will start the UK's "independence" off with a declaration of political unreliability but...this is the bad timeline.

    I think in the good timeline the British government managed to reform and set the grounds for a genuinely British identity rather than retreating further into English colonialism.
    Elizabeth Warren is the neighbor in the horror movie who drives by the haunted house and is like “hey guys seems bad in there want to come with me?” and America is the family that’s like “nah it’s probably not that bad there were only chainsaw noises in the night that one time!”

  3. #26923
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I have to say, the mean side of me quite enjoys the realisation of some people just now learning how shit WTO rules actually are. I mean, they were told but, damned if they don't have to find out by themselves to actually let it sink in.
    It's quite amazing to see how sheer hatred for the EU just blinds them to the alternative (or lack thereof).
    It feels like watching a friend joining scientology.
    Me: " you know they'll just take your money and brainwash you, right?"
    Brexiteer: "fuck you, Tom Cruise is awesome"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I think we hit peak comedy with the "I hope you've learned your lesson about buying EU goods since the UK will just delay their transit across the Atlantic" when the obvious outcome is that these companies are just going to start routing shipping directly through continent. Or Ireland.

    Honestly I will confess some surprise at BoJo actually reneging on this WA considering getting it passed brought down a government and that doing so will start the UK's "independence" off with a declaration of political unreliability but...this is the bad timeline.

    I think in the good timeline the British government managed to reform and set the grounds for a genuinely British identity rather than retreating further into English colonialism.
    Or he just signed something he didn't completely understand and is now drafting an army of lawyers to try and weasel his way out of it.
    Last edited by Demolitia; 2020-02-24 at 08:44 PM.

  4. #26924
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    This is not what I was talking about. I don't care if there is a 100% majority for it, and the Queen publicly says she favours this route. You are cheering at the fact that your government's very first action in January 2021, when you're really, really out, will be to violate a WA that passed into law less than a year before by an overwhelming majority.
    For a Nation with renewed global ambitions, violating international agreements on day 1 is really absolute fucking genius
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!

  5. #26925
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    Just goes to show you the amount of trust the UK has lost internationally as a result of this episode, don't it.
    Elizabeth Warren is the neighbor in the horror movie who drives by the haunted house and is like “hey guys seems bad in there want to come with me?” and America is the family that’s like “nah it’s probably not that bad there were only chainsaw noises in the night that one time!”

  6. #26926
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...de-deal-brexit

    Hmm, this is getting interesting. And at least for us kinda funny, seeing the UK implode.
    I know that the normal British people can be pretty naive, but BoJo has to know better. This can't even be in the interest of his weatlhy friends.

  7. #26927
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...de-deal-brexit

    Hmm, this is getting interesting. And at least for us kinda funny, seeing the UK implode.
    I know that the normal British people can be pretty naive, but BoJo has to know better. This can't even be in the interest of his weatlhy friends.
    Wait so you're telling me that one country has a poorer negotiating position than a bloc of 27 countries? :surprisedpikachu:
    Elizabeth Warren is the neighbor in the horror movie who drives by the haunted house and is like “hey guys seems bad in there want to come with me?” and America is the family that’s like “nah it’s probably not that bad there were only chainsaw noises in the night that one time!”

  8. #26928
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Just goes to show you the amount of trust the UK has lost internationally as a result of this episode, don't it.
    Yeah, a bunch people on an obscure gaming website are an accurate yardstick.

  9. #26929
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    Yep. Welcome to mmoc-ot
    Edit: but to be fair, you guys voted for this with 0 plan, and nothing will baffle us anymore.
    Last edited by Demolitia; 2020-02-24 at 09:50 PM.

  10. #26930
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...de-deal-brexit

    Hmm, this is getting interesting. And at least for us kinda funny, seeing the UK implode.
    I know that the normal British people can be pretty naive, but BoJo has to know better. This can't even be in the interest of his weatlhy friends.
    Macron playing tough guy to a domestic crowd to try to win local elections he is going to lose against Le Pen in a couple of weeks don't mean a lot.

    But then nothing the EU says means anything to the UK at all now. WE HAVE LEFT.

  11. #26931
    I am Murloc! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Will Brexit split the UK now? Scotland leaving? Will Northern Ireland leave and Ireland unite? Wales and England will stand alone?

  12. #26932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Will Brexit split the UK now? Scotland leaving? Will Northern Ireland leave and Ireland unite? Wales and England will stand alone?
    time will tell, but at least SCO and NI will voice their stances at every opportunity.

  13. #26933
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Macron playing tough guy to a domestic crowd to try to win local elections he is going to lose against Le Pen in a couple of weeks don't mean a lot.

    But then nothing the EU says means anything to the UK at all now. WE HAVE LEFT.
    If the EU passes a new law by the end of Q2, you have to implement it in domestic law. If you want to charge a 200% tariff on French wine, you can't. If you want to stop Europeans entering the country to work, you can't. If you want to act against somebody's rights, the ECHR can bitch slap Johnson into accepting their decision. Doesn't sound like you left yet, bud.

    Wait, you didn't read the WA? You would know this if you had...

  14. #26934
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    WE HAVE LEFT.
    YOU JUST AGREED WE HADN'T YET A FEW POSTS AGO.

    ALSO, WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING SO MUCH? ARE YOU ANGRY THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T GOT YOUR BREXIT UNICORN?

    It's like the slightly deaf racist old relative that you have to pretend to find amusing at Christmas. While they witter on about how terrible it is that they aren't allowed to call people darkies any more. "It's political correctness gone mad. Bring back National Service I say. I got buggered 5 times a night, but it made a man of me".
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  15. #26935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...de-deal-brexit

    Hmm, this is getting interesting. And at least for us kinda funny, seeing the UK implode.
    I know that the normal British people can be pretty naive, but BoJo has to know better. This can't even be in the interest of his weatlhy friends.
    whole EU is now behind the idea and will sanction the shit out of UK, if they misbehave. so it is no deal or a deal Boris cannot rearrange on on a whim.

  16. #26936
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Macron playing tough guy to a domestic crowd to try to win local elections he is going to lose against Le Pen in a couple of weeks don't mean a lot.

    But then nothing the EU says means anything to the UK at all now. WE HAVE LEFT.
    Yes, you have "left" one of the 3 economic powerhouses on the planet. Pointing out macron's politicaL struggles at home is like poitIng out Sturgeon's. How does it matter?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    whole EU is now behind the idea and will sanction the shit out of UK, if they misbehave. so it is no deal or a deal Boris cannot rearrange on on a whim.
    It's even better/worse. A mandate is given to the commission, which then has all powers within this mandate. And the commission is basically an army of experts and lawyers the UK can never dream to match, or ever possibly emotionally appeal to. The UK will have to talk to Barnier again from now on not Macron or Merkel.

  17. #26937
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    If the EU passes a new law by the end of Q2, you have to implement it in domestic law. If you want to charge a 200% tariff on French wine, you can't. If you want to stop Europeans entering the country to work, you can't. If you want to act against somebody's rights, the ECHR can bitch slap Johnson into accepting their decision. Doesn't sound like you left yet, bud.

    Wait, you didn't read the WA? You would know this if you had...
    The likelihood of the EU passing a law between now and the end of Q2 is slim to non-existent and even if it pass a law there would be an implementation period which would likely mean that the UK would not have to implement it.

    Oh and the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU.

  18. #26938
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I think we hit peak comedy with the "I hope you've learned your lesson about buying EU goods since the UK will just delay their transit across the Atlantic" when the obvious outcome is that these companies are just going to start routing shipping directly through continent. Or Ireland.

    Honestly I will confess some surprise at BoJo actually reneging on this WA considering getting it passed brought down a government and that doing so will start the UK's "independence" off with a declaration of political unreliability but...this is the bad timeline.

    I think in the good timeline the British government managed to reform and set the grounds for a genuinely British identity rather than retreating further into English colonialism.
    When you read this, remember that I'm looking in from the outside... to us in the EU it matters not who calls the shots, what we see is "the UK" acting as a unit. So maybe you'll understand that I was not even surprised a little bit, considering how often the UK changed its position, how indecisive and divided they were on practically every aspect of Brexit and how the quality of the personnel we dealt with (the Government) deteriorated from bad to worse to utterly worst option available.

    The second we saw May getting bullied by her own party and moving back and forth on her demands (!) from the EU I think most people considered the United Kingdom to be an untrustworthy partner. Coming to negotiations with demands is... weird. The US was politely turned down for the very same reason. The EU is all about cooperation and compromises that benefit both. The UK, being a major player in the EU, should have known this.

    All of these things will be reflected in the upcoming negotiations:

    1. The EU dislikes being bullied and will stonewall any attempt at being forced into an undesireable position. As Turkey has found out, the EU is very happy to "negotiate" for 20 years if need be.

    2. The EU knows very well about the power imbalance. And the EU is very much compelled by its member states to get the best possible outcome of this "event" for the member states. The EU is not yet a self-serving purpose. It's very much a servant of the EU member states and by extension the population of the EU. And the sentiment across the continent seems to be more akin to "no quarter" than "mercy on them". Especially after the decades of WW2 rhetoric against Germany, the disdain for France in general, the disrespect towards Spain and the recent prejudicial claims about basically any Eastern European nation.

    3. The EU is well aware of anything going on in the UK. A fact British politicians, so engrossed and drunken on their perceived importance, do not seem to be aware of. We watch every single publically available Parliamentary session, we watch most interviews. And the EU officials most likely have people just analysing British politics at this stage to gauge how far the British can be pushed or how serious they are about certain claims. And this also means that the EU is very well aware of the time limit and will use it as leverage. Something Johnsson seems to think is in his favour. For some reason he thinks the EU owes him or that the EU would take pity on the British people, the Remainers at least. What he doesn't understand is that the EU has internalized the cut already. They're done with it. And the British people and British concerns are no longer the business of the EU. That's the ironic bit.. once you leave and tell everyone to fuck off, don't expect them to not heed your wish and actually stop being concerned about your wishes/needs.

    But hey, we have Dribbles and the other scared Brexiteers harping on about how nobody cares what Germany thinks. Well, that's right. But the EU cares what Germany and all the other member states think. And right now, they are uniting against an outside force trying to bully them. As history has demonstrated time and again, nothing unites people better than outside pressure. So please, keep it up Brexiteers. You're doing more to stabilise and unite Europe than anything else could.

    In fact, right now I'd say the EU is immune to pretty much all of Putin's attempts to disrupt the EU and destabilise it. I'm happy to speculate about these issues as people know, so I'll throw it out there... as a scheme to counteract Putin's efforts, this couldn't have been planned better. Who knows...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    I think he was talking about BoJo outright ignoring the WA, hasn't he said so bluntly?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Yeah, a bunch people on an obscure gaming website are an accurate yardstick.
    Considering that the people posting here are from all kinds of countries, saying we got a pretty good cross section of the EU's average opinion is not that far fetched. Certainly the big opinion streams here don't diverge enough from the polls you guys seem to believe almost religiously in. Also, don't forget that unlike you, most people here can actually back up what they say and don't just pull stuff out of thin air or simply deny the validity of arguments without a proper counter argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    whole EU is now behind the idea and will sanction the shit out of UK, if they misbehave. so it is no deal or a deal Boris cannot rearrange on on a whim.
    Don't fall for the hyperbolic British phrasing. It's not sanctions as much as it's regulated consequences that every member state has to suffer if they diverge. In the simplest terms: If the UK dicks around and diverges in financial services, they will lose access to the EU's financial markets. Sure, you could say it's a sanction of sorts, but it's more appropriate to call that a regulatory necessity.
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  19. #26939
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    Well, the UK isn't really showing much trustworthiness lately, and by lately I am talking about the past 3 to 4 years, so believing they'd try to fuck this up right away shouldn't come as a surprise.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  20. #26940
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    Well, at the start of the WA negotiations there were Tories who openly said the UK could just agree to whatever the EU felt was needed, since the UK could just turn around and ignore it later. Might even have been Boris though I can't be arsed to look it up.

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