[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Forogil]

Not to disagree with you too much, but it's also worth looking at the vaccination rate per capita. The EU has a lot more people than the UK, so looking at absolute numbers is kinda moot.

Agreed, but that requires looking at the numbers, not blindly copying some image from some dubious propaganda outlet.

But it's also worth pointing out why the UK is currently ahead, and that's because they rushed to get the vaccines while the EU waited a bit to make sure they were safe

And effective, in particular the Astra-Zeneca vaccine is approved in the uk, but not in EU and it's effectiveness is still unclear. If/when that gets approved in the EU the EU numbers will go up more as it's easier to handle than the alternatives.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I have a serious point to make so can I be frank with you eurochums? I'll tell you what the consequences are now that we are almost one month into brexit proper that I have noticed and from personal experience.

Supermarkets were without Broccoli for one day. Whoop di dah, that must mean the UK is collapsing if remainers are to be believed.

(but I can't stand that vegetable, so to me even that is a brexit benefit)

So how about the boot being on the other foot, how has brexit negatively affected you in Britain personally? I'd wager not one jot. So remind me just what was it we were paying for for all those years...

Throwing money down the drain that is what we were doing.

Maybe we're the wrong people to ask. Maybe you should ask the fishermen what the consequences are. Or the people struggling to export from the UK now. Or the company owners being told to move part of their companies to the EU. Maybe talk to the Scottish exporters of seed potatoes, that have lost their market. Or all the companies in NI struggling to get goods from the UK because of all the paperwork.

Maybe ask the people who used to have import paperwork that took 30 minutes that is now taking 5 days. Or the cheese maker that says that Brexit has left a £250k hole in his budget. Maybe talk to the NHS about how they are managing to get nurses and doctors in place since Brexit. Or perhaps talk to the people in Kent that have had a huge lorry park shoved in their back-yard. Or talk to any of the lorry drivers facing days stuck in queues to get their good across. I'd say talk to their EU equivalents, but you might struggle to find any. Most of them seemed to have decided that travelling to the UK is no longer worth their time.

Or talk to the companies that are facing a choice between burning the returned goods that are now stuck in the EU because the intended recipients refused to pay the additional duty on them, or paying a significant sum to repatriate them.

I could go on, but what's the point when it's the reality defying brick wall I'm talking to. You could talk to any number of people who'd explain how much damage Brexit has done. Or you could Google it and read their stories for themselves. But you won't, because you aren't interested in the truth. Even as the damage expands and extends, you'll still be popping in here telling us how it's all worth it.

Oh, and since we're playing this game, how about you tell us how Brexit has made your life better. Surely you must have some stories about how it has improved things for you? Anything?

[Crispin]

I have a serious point to make so can I be frank with you eurochums? I'll tell you what the consequences are now that we are almost one month into brexit proper that I have noticed and from personal experience.

Supermarkets were without Broccoli for one day. Whoop di dah, that must mean the UK is collapsing if remainers are to be believed.

(but I can't stand that vegetable, so to me even that is a brexit benefit)

So how about the boot being on the other foot, how has brexit negatively affected you in Britain personally? I'd wager not one jot. So remind me just what was it we were paying for for all those years...

Throwing money down the drain that is what we were doing.

Are you serious? It’s like saying I havent gotten ill nor do I know anyone who’s sick from covid, it can’t be a problem at all!

Anecdotes are useless.

[Mayhem]

Sircaw "on to some positive news: lone survivor in an entirely preventable plane crash that killed thousands" maybe reread the stuff directed at you, your deliberate misinterpretation and or sea-lioning is really old stuff, come up with something new to troll us here, we are used to the likes of masterbaiters like dribbles.

what movie did you watch?

[Mormolyce]

As for posting stuff psotive i recall posting something here many movies ago about sky news and how there analists said brexist did look positive

Typo or Freudian slip, you be the judge.

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Now you see what i am putting up with here, i am getting attacked from all sides for just saying i support my country,

I AM GETTING GANGED UP BECAUSE I WANT MY COUNTRY TO SUCCEED.

If you wanted your country to succeed you wouldn't support a policy that was obviously going to drive it off a cliff.

[LeGin Tufnel]

So how about the boot being on the other foot, how has brexit negatively affected you in Britain personally? I'd wager not one jot. So remind me just what was it we were paying for for all those years...

I know you’re addressing EU folk but here’s the reason my, already crippled, industry is going to suffer further this year:

Link to the image (for some reason I can't embed imgur images now)

Guy Verhofstadt email

But apparently this is all ok, because Pann suspects “that by the time musicians are able to tour again that the details will be ironed out and agreements in place and this will turn out be a non-issue.”

Jolly good.

I’ll pass that on to all my friends and colleagues who are suffering now (defaulting on mortgages, enduring mental health problems, relationship break-ups etc.) with no light at the end of the tunnel irrespective of Covid. Many touring personnel (and forget the millionaire rock dinosaurs - I mean the orchestras, rank and file musicians, librarians, tour managers, road crew, etc.) are completely shafted at the moment.

Making flippant comments about broccoli only undermines your sincerity further.

It remains the case with Brexit that a small number of people successfully conned a large number of people into voting for something that was not in their interests.

Stating this does not equal “hating on my country” or however the sea lion above phrased it.

In the meantime, here is another nugget of news.

'A Brexit nightmare’: the British businesses being pushed to breaking point

Have a read. Tell me how this is in any way positive. It quite literally hurts our country. This isn't what anyone wants to see.

And that is extraordinary:

But the civil servant did refer him on to a senior trade adviser in the Department for International Trade.

If we can’t move our goods across Europe without all this palaver, a lot of companies will be in very serious trouble
“This guy talked complete sense,” said Moss. “What I said to him was, have I got another choice [other than to set up a company abroad]? He confirmed that he couldn’t see another way. He told me that what I was thinking of doing was the right thing, that he could see no other option. He did not see this as a teething problem. He said he had to be careful what he said, but he was very clear.”

Hang your heads in shame, Brexiteers.

[Acidbaron]

Every time i read this thread i am made to believe from the presumably pro-Brexit crowd thateverything will work out just fine. That the positives are just around the corner and you just need to have faith in the process, if not that in the people, in the nation or some other sense of patriotism.

Now the reality is the government has been running behind the facts and putting out fires that it started itself being it directly or indirectly, And while politics are reactionary there does not appear to be any plan here beyond the focus of just leaving the EU and do things differently for the sake of it.

Look at the Covid response, every step of the way they refused to do what the nations in the EU did till they had no other option. One of the last nations effected in the chain and having the luxury of seeing what could go wrong and yet not responding to it. Or look at this vaccine strategy, it started off with a gamble to fast track the approval process to simply be ahead of the EU and now when there's going to be shortages the response team is struggling to adjust to that situation.

I don't think the UK will simply fall apart but what will happen as these events pile up is that the UK will no longer be a political stable nation to invest in and once the overall big money starts to move out you'll experience not just a brain drain but also a cultural one. Ignoring your cultural sector right now is a good way to send them packing elsewhere but perhaps this is a sort of desired effect, a sort of purge of that industry, an attempt to whitewash it all. If you here some on the right speaking there i wouldn't put it beyond them.

So where is the plan, what is the plan now that the UK is out of the EU? Because to me it comes across that you have an political leadership who only speaks how things don't work and how things need to be dismantled and changed, but into what exactly and what the overall plan is. Nobody appears to know and even better those in support of the brexit don't appear to actually care, until it hits them directly and they see their lively hoods diminishing, such as the fisher crowd.

[Forogil]

Then, of course, you look a bit deeper and…

https://brexitballs.com/fakes-debunk...h-entrpeneurs/

Turns out the grand “Alliance” of “SMEs and entrepreneurs” is partly a collection of random fakes, one man bands, dormant companies, shell Ltds,

And most prominently has-been Lords!

As always start by looking what people say about themselves https://www.allianceofbritishentrepr...co.uk/about-us the statement is:

Our campaigns have seen us receive the backing of individuals like Tim Martin of JD Wetherspoon, Lord Flight, Lord Vinson and Lord Daresbury.

Among others The Lord Vinson has been an entrepreneur.

[sircaw]

Typo or Freudian slip, you be the judge.

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If you wanted your country to succeed you wouldn't support a policy that was obviously going to drive it off a cliff.

I have dyslexia and the spell checker, grammar option does not always get it right, if i remember to use it too, which can be annoying but thanks for your judgement.

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The very fact that LeGin Tufnel posted that Nissan news and was neither berated nor accused of being a troll is evidence of the bullshit you're full of. Nobody cares about your little victim complex. Perhaps you should look at why the difference in response to the two of you exists.

People in this thread are very receptive to anything positive about Brexit. It just so happens that the positives are so far dwarfed by the negatives, and posters are very realistic about how Brexit has been going so far.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with not accepting the vote or not getting behind your country. In fact, I'd argue any Brits pointing out the issues are those that care far more about the country.

In the meantime, here is another nugget of news.

'A Brexit nightmare’: the British businesses being pushed to breaking point

Have a read. Tell me how this is in any way positive. It quite literally hurts our country. This isn't what anyone wants to see.

It's no good pointing to an article that was never brought up before i mentioned why is there no positive nes on the UK when there clearly is. That is kinda silly of you to point that out as a line of defense.


Are their negatives to leaving the Eu, yes but there will also be oppertunityies.
As for the Guardian link, we gonna get Owen jones and Fermi on here too are we, good call.

I watched a broadcast on ITV tv news a while back with a woman worried about her business with the EU, she was excited about the prospect of trading with more countries around the world and the opportunities it would provide. Like all things in life, the business will adjust and evolve, once the world gets rid of this nasty covid virus it will be interesting to see how things work out.

As for the people that care about this country, are the ones that moan more, they are the ones that really care, what a load of rubbish.

The fact is, we ARE OUT, all you are doing now is moaning and causing negativity, you have had years of constant rubbishing the UK, how long are you going to keep this negativity up, another 20 years, 50? will you still be bitching about this when you're an old man? It's time to start getting behind your country and supporting the democratic vote of the people.

I know it can be hard, especially on this forum with the constant negativity of people, and you are probably afraid of being picked on, but you can do it.
Thank you.

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Sircaw "on to some positive news: lone survivor in an entirely preventable plane crash that killed thousands" maybe reread the stuff directed at you, your deliberate misinterpretation and or sea-lioning is really old stuff, come up with something new to troll us here, we are used to the likes of masterbaiters like dribbles.

what movie did you watch?

I do like to be Positive. also was Lone survivor about the delta force guy that survived up in the hills in Afganistan, and was it not a chopper that went down and killed like 10 people not thousands, hope that was not some project fear directors cut edition that was released or something.

Not sure what this seal lion stuff is, perhaps you can educate me on what it is.

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I have a serious point to make so can I be frank with you eurochums? I'll tell you what the consequences are now that we are almost one month into brexit proper that I have noticed and from personal experience.

Supermarkets were without Broccoli for one day. Whoop di dah, that must mean the UK is collapsing if remainers are to be believed.

(but I can't stand that vegetable, so to me even that is a brexit benefit)

So how about the boot being on the other foot, how has brexit negatively affected you in Britain personally? I'd wager not one jot. So remind me just what was it we were paying for for all those years...

Throwing money down the drain that is what we were doing.

I must admit why did dribbles get banned for this post>?

Are people really reporting him for this kind of postings? Seems really extreme to me.

Feels really strange to report someone for this, when i was told to fuck off and not one of you told that user, oi that's not cool.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I watched a broadcast on ITV tv news a while back with a woman worried about her business with the EU, she was excited about the prospect of trading with more countries around the world and the opportunities it would provide. Like all things in life, the business will adjust and evolve, once the world gets rid of this nasty covid virus it will be interesting to see how things work out.

The thing is, why didn't she trade with the rest of the world before Brexit? The rules are the same now as they were before for that for selling to the USA, Canada etc. The only thing that has changed is the lack of easy access to the EU market making it harder to sell product at a competitive price internationally.

Waiting for a FTA with the States isn't an option for a lot of smaller producers, who now have holes in their business forecast to the tune of hundreds of thousands and can't actually wait until more deals are struck. What are they supposed to do, other than transfer their business to an EU-based subsidiary or buy into an EU distributor (which only puts the EU into an even stronger position when it comes to negotiating anciliary deals that go beyond the 2020 deal)?

Look at the fisheries businesses who, while they can now catch more fish than before, can't actually sell it before it goes rotten while sitting in an expensive refridgerated container on one of the sides of the Channel while its paperwork is checked.

That's the reality for SMEs in the UK right now. The deal was struck too late for systems to be put into place to make customs clearance more streamlined and for businesses to know how they would be trading and on which terms from 2021. The UK government threw British companies under the number 12 bus with no practical guidance or help available until three working days before 1 January 2021.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, that's just the reality facing the UK now they are outside the EU. If they'd got the deal struck even half a year earlier things might have worked out differently, but the Government wasn't able to do that. This is entirely the fault of Boris Johnson's negotiation team and the ERG members along with the likes of Farage and Cummings who pushed this and the last government into the position they then forced onto the country as a whole.

Feels really strange to report someone for this, when i was told to fuck off and not one of you told that user, oi that's not cool.

Telling Dribbles that their post is "not cool" is ignored. Or it just makes them double-down on their bullshit, borderline conspiracy theory ridden, nationalist, xenophobic and nation-bashing posts. I just report when I think it's unacceptable and move on (I don't remember reporting the quoted post but whatever). They've proven themselves incapable of an honest discussion, so why bother trying.

[sircaw]

The thing is, why didn't she trade with the rest of the world before Brexit? The rules are the same now as they were before for that for selling to the USA, Canada etc. The only thing that has changed is the lack of easy access to the EU market making it harder to sell product at a competitive price internationally.

Waiting for a FTA with the States isn't an option for a lot of smaller producers, who now have holes in their business forecast to the tune of hundreds of thousands and can't actually wait until more deals are struck. What are they supposed to do, other than transfer their business to an EU-based subsidiary or buy into an EU distributor (which only puts the EU into an even stronger position when it comes to negotiating anciliary deals that go beyond the 2020 deal)?

Look at the fisheries businesses who, while they can now catch more fish than before, can't actually sell it before it goes rotten while sitting in an expensive refridgerated container on one of the sides of the Channel while its paperwork is checked.

That's the reality for SMEs in the UK right now. The deal was struck too late for systems to be put into place to make customs clearance more streamlined and for businesses to know how they would be trading and on which terms from 2021. The UK government threw British companies under the number 12 bus with no practical guidance or help available until three working days before 1 January 2021.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, that's just the reality facing the UK now they are outside the EU. If they'd got the deal struck even half a year earlier things might have worked out differently, but the Government wasn't able to do that. This is entirely the fault of Boris Johnson's negotiation team and the ERG members along with the likes of Farage and Cummings who pushed this and the last government into the position they then forced onto the country as a whole.



Telling Dribbles that their post is "not cool" is ignored. Or it just makes them double-down on their bullshit, borderline conspiracy theory ridden, nationalist, xenophobic and nation-bashing posts. I just report when I think it's unacceptable and move on (I don't remember reporting the quoted post but whatever). They've proven themselves incapable of an honest discussion, so why bother trying.

Thank you for an honest discussion.

As for the lady i am not sure, all i can tell you is what i saw on the ITV news, this was i think the end of November when they showed the interview. She definitely said she was exploring the options of trade outside the eu and by her calculations, she was very pleased in what she had found. I wish i had paid more attention to it back there, i did not think i would be using it as an example a few months later.

For the fish and it's rotting away, i agree that is absolutely terrible, i hope that it can be sorted or rectified asap, extremely poor planning by the UK government and in my eyes is inexcusable.

As for raining on my Parade, your not, I don't like the ERG, i am not a fan of Reese mog etc. Saying that i do want Britain to succeed.

As for Dribbles, as I said, a person in this thread told me to fuck off and he is still here right now, unbanned, and Dribbles got banned for something that looks like nothing more than a jest. Why don't people just put him on ignore, if he offends people so much, surely that is a better solution. Its not like dribbles told them to F.O or anything, just seems a massive double standard here.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Why don't people just put him on ignore, if he offends people so much, surely that is a better solution. Its not like dribbles told them to F.O or anything, just seems a massive double standard here.

I don't remember who originally said that a lie can run around the world before the truth can get its boots on, but it's still true today. If half the thread is Dribbles blatantly lying about the EU and nobody refutes it, then it can look like it's the truth (or at the very least an acceptable position to take). The BBC has to share some responsibility for putting Farage on practically every Question Time and news broadcast as "the balance" because it made his position appear equal (one could draw similarities to debates between climate change experts and deniers - putting 1 v 1 plus a moderator makes the wider debate as to whether climate change is a real thing or not seem like a 50/50 arrangement, when it's more like 99/1) while he is at least partially to blame for the plight of British fishermen, having been on the EU Parliament Fisheries Commission for many years (and never turning up for a meeting).

So while I'd love to put Dribbles on ignore, if I do (and if everybody else does too) then this thread would turn into his own little blog and nobody would be here to put his somewhat questionable assertions in the place they deserve to be in.

[sircaw]

I don't remember who originally said that a lie can run around the world before the truth can get its boots on, but it's still true today. If half the thread is Dribbles blatantly lying about the EU and nobody refutes it, then it can look like it's the truth (or at the very least an acceptable position to take). The BBC has to share some responsibility for putting Farage on practically every Question Time and news broadcast as "the balance" because it made his position appear equal (one could draw similarities to debates between climate change experts and deniers - putting 1 v 1 plus a moderator makes the wider debate as to whether climate change is a real thing or not seem like a 50/50 arrangement, when it's more like 99/1) while he is at least partially to blame for the plight of British fishermen, having been on the EU Parliament Fisheries Commission for many years (and never turning up for a meeting).

So while I'd love to put Dribbles on ignore, if I do (and if everybody else does too) then this thread would turn into his own little blog and nobody would be here to put his somewhat questionable assertions in the place they deserve to be in.

But hasn't Dribbles already been punished for his past posts, and maybe i am wrong here but his last post does not mention anything about fishing or Farage or the nhs bus or anything like that, i assume that is the one that has been reported.

It sounds to me he is basically being reported all the time for anything he says, that does not seem fair. I mean check out his last post, does that really sound terrible and a bannable offense to you>?

I made posts and stated a few things, nothing negative about the eu, wanting the UK to succeed and some silly user called me a Troll.

Dribbles just like me is allowed to have an opinion on things, and that last post of his was nothing nasty, trying to shut down someones free speech seems like some sort of fascism to me, if he says something totally terrible or is lying then sure go ahead, but from what i can tell that post did not say that.

[Slant]

Now you see what i am putting up with here, i am getting attacked from all sides for just saying i support my country,

I AM GETTING GANGED UP BECAUSE I WANT MY COUNTRY TO SUCCEED.

"Supporting your country" doesn't equal supporting Brexit. Some might argue the opposite. And it would become increasingly more sensible to argue the contrary, as current consequences of Brexit seem to indicate a detrminental effect for life in Britain in the short and medium term, with grim outlooks for the long term.

So, I think you can put that victim card away. Look at what is happening out there and what you're arguing on the forum here, maybe you'll find the clue about why people respond to you the way they do.

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I saw your replies, i also saw the other 30 people in this thread that love to dump all over the UK, so i am well aware of how this thread acts,

Not the UK. Brexit. Most of us are here because we like the UK. If this was Hungary, we wouldn't be having a thread over 1300 pages long. Sorry, Hungary. We just don't like you that much. :P

[sircaw]

"Supporting your country" doesn't equal supporting Brexit. Some might argue the opposite. And it would become increasingly more sensible to argue the contrary, as current consequences of Brexit seem to indicate a detrminental effect for life in Britain in the short and medium term, with grim outlooks for the long term.

So, I think you can put that victim card away. Look at what is happening out there and what you're arguing on the forum here, maybe you'll find the clue about why people respond to you the way they do.

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Not the UK. Brexit. Most of us are here because we like the UK. If this was Hungary, we wouldn't be having a thread over 1300 pages long. Sorry, Hungary. We just don't like you that much. :P

You always miss the point slant.
There is no victim card here i am reporting on what i see on this forum.

I know you don't like it, but you have always been that way.

If you can't see what is happening in this thread, that's your opinion.

Try and get out of you echo chamber and see it from another perspective, if you can't or dont want to, put me on ignore.

thanks.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Dribbles just like me is allowed to have an opinion on things, and that last post of his was nothing nasty, trying to shut down someones free speech seems like some sort of fascism to me, if he says something totally terrible or is lying then sure go ahead, but from what i can tell that post did not say that.

This is the last post of his in this thread that got infracted and it is fairly representative of his posting style.

I made posts and stated a few things, nothing negative about the eu, wanting the UK to succeed and some silly user called me a Troll.

I'll be totally honest with you - I made a conscious decision not to engage with that series of posts because the way they read led me to assume that you were fishing for an argument (and to be fair, you got one so it looked like it worked).

[Slant]

But hasn't Dribbles already been punished for his past posts, and maybe i am wrong here but his last post does not mention anything about fishing or Farage or the nhs bus or anything like that, i assume that is the one that has been reported.

It sounds to me he is basically being reported all the time for anything he says, that does not seem fair. I mean check out his last post, does that really sound terrible and a bannable offense to you>?

I made posts and stated a few things, nothing negative about the eu, wanting the UK to succeed and some silly user called me a Troll.

Dribbles just like me is allowed to have an opinion on things, and that last post of his was nothing nasty, trying to shut down someones free speech seems like some sort of fascism to me, if he says something totally terrible or is lying then sure go ahead, but from what i can tell that post did not say that.

Why doesn't it seem fair? If you keep stealing from me and get caught and put into prison, if you steal from me again you're not immune from being put into prison again. It's not me "reporting you all the time for stealing" that's the issue. It's you continuing to steal that's the issue.

Hard analogy, but the same principle applies here. And we're not allowed to discuss moderation or, boy oh boy, I'd have a thing or two to say. Let's just leave it at whatever the situation is. And UNLIKE Dribbles, you are still here posting, so there must be a difference between you two.

About opinions... it's fine to have an opinion, but here's what people got wrong recently in the world... not all opinions are equal. Not all deserve equal protection. Some bullshit we can absolutely shut down. And some might say that websites like MMO-C don't do enough to shut down the conspiracy bullshit that is against their rules. Heck, Brexit is largely based on conspiracy theories and fantasies. It's hurting ACTUAL people right now in ACTUAL real life. And it is sites like MMO-C that tolerated the most insane random bullshit and protected it that are largely responsible for being the propaganda platforms for these destructive forces in the world right now. Maybe MMO-C decided to put a stop to their continual support and protection of actually dangerous people and ideologies being spread here.

One can dream, maybe it was something else. Who knows.

The game is changing. Your opinion is still protected. Nobody is putting you in jail for thinking or saying what you think. But as you can see on Twitter, we're onto the game now. The MODERATE center is getting ticked off with the extremists on either side of the spectrum. The crazies, the flat earthers, the anti vaccers and all the looney-bins of the planet. This is OUR planet and you do not get to run it just because "you have an opinion." This is us pushing back. Took a while to get the center motivated, but now that you have, you'll find that the center moderates far outweigh anyone else. Deal with it.

Freedom of expression? Yeah sure. But not the entitlement to be heard. And not the freedom from consequences.

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You always miss the point slant.
There is no victim card here i am reporting on what i see on this forum.

I know you don't like it, but you have always been that way.

If you can't see what is happening in this thread, that's your opinion.

Try and get out of you echo chamber and see it from another perspective, if you can't or dont want to, put me on ignore.

thanks.

You're misreporting grossly then. You're not being ganged up on. You are simply the vast minority, because - naturally, now that it's failing so hard - most Brexiteers have slunk back under the rocks they came from and pretend they've never been for it in the first place because they are embarassed.

I'm always looking for the other perspective. More than once I've asked on here and on reddit for a Brexiteer to explain their reasoning with sensible arguments. So far, no dice. In what, almost 5 years now? Not ONE person has been able to give me a sane reason based in reality for Brexit that isn't "wishful UK Emperialism" or simple Xenophobia. Be the first, impress me. But as the rest, you'll either mock this request, ignore it or deflect and talk about something completely different.

[sircaw]

This is the last post of his in this thread that got infracted and it is fairly representative of his posting style.



I'll be totally honest with you - I made a conscious decision not to engage with that series of posts because the way they read led me to assume that you were fishing for an argument (and to be fair, you got one so it looked like it worked).

What i don't like is people trying to quash my opinion or my outlook on things with dishonest takes on my character, this place is by all accounts a barrage of constant negativity when the UK is discussed.

I have stated numerous times that there will be consequences to leaving the Eu, but there will also be opportunities. This last line seems to bring out the crazies, who see my sort of comment as some sort of unholy command lol.

For some reason being positive about your country is a real taboo around here especially when the UK is named as said country.

I have stated that I don't like the ERg but that is not good enough
I have stated that I don't like Reece Mog guy but that is not good enough
I have said there will be consequences to leaving the but I believe there will be opportunities but that is not good enough.

Can you see a pattern developing here? Your either with us fully or we are against you, and this is what I have been stating all along. There are a lot of people, not you, that are trying to worm their comments or arguments to somehow get one over me.

Just like the guy that said i was spreading propaganda, when i said well like what, show me what i have said wrong, he simply insulted me and left. It's disingenuous at best.

I mean even Slant is trying to find an angle here as well, he just can not accept, for some reason that i want my country to succeed and pulls we all love the UK routine, what a load of rubbish. Slant gives two fucks about the Uk, he is just pissed because the UK had the nerve to leave his beloved club, that's it.

We have had years of this now, and they are still moaning, if they cared so much they would say damn the election was close and there is still 50% of the population that voted to remain, instead of reminding them every day how shit their lives are going to be for the next ten years and try that we might to get behind them, maybe we should try support them.

We have left, nothing is going to change that, and for all the people saying we care about the UK, then start proving it and also publish some of the positive stories or opportunities about Brexit, i know you have seen them, but you would rather ignore them as it does not support your narrative.

To everyone in this thread, if what I say insults you, and you can't stand someone talking or hoping that UK does well, put me on ignore.

[jonnysensible]

I have stated numerous times that there will be consequences to leaving the Eu, but there will also be opportunities. This last line seems to bring out the crazies, who see my sort of comment as some sort of unholy command lol.


We have left, nothing is going to change that, and for all the people saying we care about the UK, then start proving it and also publish some of the positive stories or opportunities about Brexit, i know you see them, but you would rather ignore them as it does not support your narrative.

Its probably the vagueness and vapidity of the statements 'i want them to succeed' and 'there are new opportunities' without backing it up with anything.

Whats the positive then?

The tories are borrowing at record levels and gutting the tax base at the same time. Theses are people who will never miss a meal in their lives smashing people who have to work for a living for abstract reasons.

[sircaw]

Why doesn't it seem fair? If you keep stealing from me and get caught and put into prison, if you steal from me again you're not immune from being put into prison again. It's not me "reporting you all the time for stealing" that's the issue. It's you continuing to steal that's the issue.

Hard analogy, but the same principle applies here. And we're not allowed to discuss moderation or, boy oh boy, I'd have a thing or two to say. Let's just leave it at whatever the situation is. And UNLIKE Dribbles, you are still here posting, so there must be a difference between you two.

About opinions... it's fine to have an opinion, but here's what people got wrong recently in the world... not all opinions are equal. Not all deserve equal protection. Some bullshit we can absolutely shut down. And some might say that websites like MMO-C don't do enough to shut down the conspiracy bullshit that is against their rules. Heck, Brexit is largely based on conspiracy theories and fantasies. It's hurting ACTUAL people right now in ACTUAL real life. And it is sites like MMO-C that tolerated the most insane random bullshit and protected it that are largely responsible for being the propaganda platforms for these destructive forces in the world right now. Maybe MMO-C decided to put a stop to their continual support and protection of actually dangerous people and ideologies being spread here.

One can dream, maybe it was something else. Who knows.

The game is changing. Your opinion is still protected. Nobody is putting you in jail for thinking or saying what you think. But as you can see on Twitter, we're onto the game now. The MODERATE center is getting ticked off with the extremists on either side of the spectrum. The crazies, the flat earthers, the anti vaccers and all the looney-bins of the planet. This is OUR planet and you do not get to run it just because "you have an opinion." This is us pushing back. Took a while to get the center motivated, but now that you have, you'll find that the center moderates far outweigh anyone else. Deal with it.

Freedom of expression? Yeah sure. But not the entitlement to be heard. And not the freedom from consequences.

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You're misreporting grossly then. You're not being ganged up on. You are simply the vast minority, because - naturally, now that it's failing so hard - most Brexiteers have slunk back under the rocks they came from and pretend they've never been for it in the first place because they are embarassed.

I'm always looking for the other perspective. More than once I've asked on here and on reddit for a Brexiteer to explain their reasoning with sensible arguments. So far, no dice. In what, almost 5 years now? Not ONE person has been able to give me a sane reason based in reality for Brexit that isn't "wishful UK Emperialism" or simple Xenophobia. Be the first, impress me. But as the rest, you'll either mock this request, ignore it or deflect and talk about something completely different.

So being told to fuck off,
To lay in your own filth,
Your nothing but a troll,
your to stupid to understand whats going on,
You should be banned for what you're saying.
you have a victim complex, that's all this is.

Are if you even reading the replies from the people that are talking to me on this forum, For a person that says they see the other person's point of views, how do all these points just wash over you. EXPLAIN.

Your not seeing the other side at all, I am sorry that is a lie no matter how hard you try to dress it up.

I hope people can see this point.

then again, when i was told to fuck off no-one said a thing, but when I said i hope the UK does well, it was like i kicked a hornet nest.

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Its probably the vagueness and vapidity of the statements 'i want them to succeed' and 'there are new opportunities' without backing it up with anything.

Whats the positive then?

The tories are borrowing at record levels and gutting the tax base at the same time. Theses are people who will never miss a meal in their lives smashing people who have to work for a living for abstract reasons.

And the united states of America has Trillions of Dollars of dabt but i don't see them bringing that up every day. Do my highlighted comments really offend you, does me wanting the best for my country somehow irritate you. The future is a long time, who knows what Britain would be like in ten years' time. it could be terrible, it could be amazing, you don't know and i would rather be positive about its outcome. I am sorry how such a simple phrase or normal words somehow offend you.

I am not asking you to lie, i am asking you to be fair, if you're going to talk about Brexit, bring up the positive stories too, if you cared about the 50% of people that voted remain, why are you not doing that too.

Why do you always want to bring up the negatives? What is your purpose here, you know we have left?

do you want the UK to succeed or do you want them to fail? how is your always putting the UK down helping us as a country?

Thank you