View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #27441
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    The EU did not ban plasma. Every body stopped making them for various reasons. One of them being the cost compared to lcd.
    There are some indications that the EU also tried to ban plasma TV when they were already on the way out; https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Plasma-...news-3281.html

    However, I agree that they mostly disappeared on their own.

  2. #27442
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    There are some indications that the EU also tried to ban plasma TV when they were already on the way out; https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Plasma-...news-3281.html

    However, I agree that they mostly disappeared on their own.
    Sure, they did discuss it because of energy efficiency issues, but it is not an EU ban that killed off plasma.

  3. #27443
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Sure, they did discuss it because of energy efficiency issues, but it is not an EU ban that killed off plasma.
    Perhaps banned in the sense that the EU required manufacturers to label the power usage of their appliances on every house hold device.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  4. #27444
    Again, we’re coming back to semantics aren’t we. No, the EU didn’t ban plasma TVs. The EU introduced energy efficiency legislation that led to their obsolescence. And a good thing too.

    BS standards never went away and ran concurrently with EN standards.

    British manufacturing - aerospace, specialised components, - isn’t going to branch out into cheap tat. That ship sailed a long time ago.

    Personally, I’m not worried about a reduction in the standards of our exports. I am worried about a possible reduction in the standards of our imports.

  5. #27445
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Perhaps banned in the sense that the EU required manufacturers to label the power usage of their appliances on every house hold device.
    It seems that there might have been a plan to really ban them - similarly as for incandescent light bulbs (that are sort of banned for households saving lots of energy; and a similar case could be made for plasma TV); but the technical development (and possibly the power usage labelling) made it unnecessary.

  6. #27446
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny.
    We are free to set our own course as the 51st state....

  7. #27447
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    The EU did not ban plasma.
    Oh god here we go

    Yes it's correct that the EU legislation that banned plasma TVs didn't specifically state the technology by name, but that's just semantics. Before the EU passed the legislation it was fine to import/sell them in the EU, afterwards it was not (though ones already on sale could still be sold).

    Once plasma was outlawed in the EU it meant it was no longer a viable technology as non-EU sales wouldn't merit the R&D costs so manufacturers cancelled R&D and stopped producing new models, resulting in a lost decade for displays while LCD R&D rushed to catch up. If that had not happened we would have got the 4K plasmas that were in development and the technology would have stuck around until OLED replaced it.
    Last edited by caervek; 2021-01-04 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Spelling

  8. #27448
    Quote Originally Posted by dwertius View Post
    We are free to set our own course as the 51st state....
    Or just become a territory, like Puerto Rico. Getting taxation without representation would be the height of irony, so it has some chance of happening.

  9. #27449
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Oh god here we go

    Yes it's correct that the EU legislation that banned plasma TVs didn't specifically state the technology by name, but that's just semantics. Before the EU passed the legislation it was fine to import/sell them in the EU, afterwards it was not (though ones already on sale could still be sold).

    Once plasma was outlawed in the EU it meant it was no longer a viable technology as non-EU sales wouldn't merit the R&D costs so manufacturers cancelled R&D and stopped producing new models, resulting in a lost decade for displays while LCD R&D rushed to catch up. If that had not happened we would have got the 4K plasmas that were in development and the technology would have stuck around until OLED replaced it.
    Oh I wasn't trying to go for semantics or be a smartass. I genuinely was curious about this as I'd never heard about it before and couldn't find anything about it.
    All the articles vaguely mentioning it are from british tabloids, and the article linked by Forogil from Tomsguides above uses the Daily Mail as their source. So understandably I have more questions than answers after reading this.
    My understanding is that at the time (the draft regulation in question was in march 2009, and I don't know when that regulation came into force), Panasonic, LG and Samsung had panels that were compliant with this regulation. In 2014 they all stopped making plasma panels, but I can't find anything saying it was because they were too power hungry, or outlawed. The main issue seems to be that by then, LCD tvs had caught up with plasma in size, and resolution (OLED and 4k were already a thing), while being cheaper, thinner and more power efficient.

    Today you can buy a 55inch 8k OLED smart tv for quite a bit less than a similarly sized high end plasma tv 7 years ago.
    I'm not sure this is something we should lament, and blame legislators for.

  10. #27450
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny. How will historians in years to come record this momentous occasion?
    "Stupidity and lack of education leads to the end of what used to be one of the great nations in the world that struggled to remain significant after WW2." It's been fun, UK, you won't be missed.

  11. #27451
    My new ambition is to get the UK back in the EU within Farage's lifetime.

  12. #27452
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    "Stupidity and lack of education leads to the end of what used to be one of the great nations in the world that struggled to remain significant after WW2." It's been fun, UK, you won't be missed.
    /yawn @ nation-bashing. That’s an uninformed and inflammatory comment worthy of Dribbles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    My new ambition is to get the UK back in the EU within Farage's lifetime.
    That said, IDD with e.g., some of the EU posters here like Slant and Acidbaron. Best thing now for the UK to be out for a significant chunk of time.

    You reckon Farage’s lifetime? So, a generation / 20 - 30 years? I reckon that’s the absolute minimum:

    - For people to realise the promised land of Brexit dividends was in fact a non-existent pot of gold at the end of the chunder rainbow streaming from the mouths of the profiteering charlatans who brought this about.

    - Complete the natural transfer of power from the anti-EU Boomers & ambivalent Gen X to the pro-EU Gen Y & Gen Z. Unless the Boomers start farming the younger folk for their organs in a bid for immortality a la Never Let Me Go.

    - For Gen Y & Gen Z to bring about the electoral reform necessary to bring the UK kicking and screaming out of the 19th century and into the 21st.

  13. #27453
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    "Stupidity and lack of education leads to the end of what used to be one of the great nations in the world that struggled to remain significant after WW2." It's been fun, UK, you won't be missed.
    As someone who reads quite a lot of non-fiction for a hobby, actual historians generally are not in the business of passing judgement on historical figures in an outright derogatory manner, but documenting motivations driving the actions of individuals, and the consequences to events there off. Neither do they engage in the sort of propaganda spreading Dribbles imagines it to be.

    That is to say, even though poor knowledge about what the EU does is certainly part of what drove Brexit, they certainly won't frame it anywhere near that crudely.

  14. #27454
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    to bring the UK kicking and screaming out of the 19th century and into the 21st.
    Right on time for the 22nd ?

  15. #27455
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    As someone who reads quite a lot of non-fiction for a hobby, actual historians generally are not in the business of passing judgement on historical figures in an outright derogatory manner, but documenting motivations driving the actions of individuals, and the consequences to events there off. Neither do they engage in the sort of propaganda spreading Dribbles imagines it to be.

    That is to say, even though poor knowledge about what the EU does is certainly part of what drove Brexit, they certainly won't frame it anywhere near that crudely.
    Out of interest, who's he quoting / misquoting?

    Either way - it's not a lot of use is it. I'll take flack all day long from the informed posters in this thread but not from baity McBait face above.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Right on time for the 22nd ?
    Ha. Yes. I see you share my pessimism!

  16. #27456
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Right on time for the 22nd ?
    I'm convinced that a lot of the voters over here would vote to keep us out of the Federation of Planets. "Bloody aliens, coming over here with their warp technology and replicators. They can sod off and leave us to roll around in the mud".
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  17. #27457
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Out of interest, who's he quoting / misquoting?

    Either way - it's not a lot of use is it. I'll take flack all day long from the informed posters in this thread but not from baity McBait face above.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Ha. Yes. I see you share my pessimism!
    If he's quoting someone, it isn't anyone that should be called a historian.

    Classifying Brexit and the consequences of it as "end of a nation" is hyperbolic nonsense.

  18. #27458
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    If he's quoting someone, it isn't anyone that should be called a historian.

    Classifying Brexit and the consequences of it as "end of a nation" is hyperbolic nonsense.
    Depends, if Brexit cause Scotland and N. Ireland to leave the uk it wouldn't be that farfetched to use that as a label. A bit exaggerated, but not full on hyperbolic.

    However, we don't know if that will happen.

  19. #27459
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I'm convinced that a lot of the voters over here would vote to keep us out of the Federation of Planets. "Bloody aliens, coming over here with their warp technology and replicators. They can sod off and leave us to roll around in the mud".
    While at the same time praising the Romulan Empire and the Cardassian union even though they're being manipulated by the Tal Shar and the Obsidian Order. With a hint of changing influence as well.

  20. #27460
    And this (Brexit dividend at its best) is just fantastic:

    Cue very earnest HMRC directive re. overseas businesses charging VAT at the point of sale rather than at the point of import and requiring said businesses to account to HMRC and paying for the ‘privilege’:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...1-january-2021

    Cue typically blunt Dutch response: Nah. We just won’t sell to you, then. The rest of the world, fine. But not the UK.

    https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

    Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty due to Brexit surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

    Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.

    We have many customers within the UK and would like to be able to trade with them. Not being able to send parcels to the UK does not work in any way in our favour and it is not what we wanted. We are forced by British policy to stop dealing with British customers. If you're angry about this, and you may well be so, please contact your elected representative in the UK.

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